Hot electric heater cord

[sail2liv]

On our sailboat and when we tent camp, we use two ceramic heaters on separate circuits set on the low setting (around 750 watts each) which takes the chill off the air nicely. Cords or outlets have never got hot. They run all night and cycle on and off as keep the thermostats set about mid range.....never on high setting.......if awake and attending heaters will sometimes set one of them on high for a short time ..... but then return it to the low setting.......high being the 1500 W setting....but never move the thermostat to max.....keep it mid range only or less.....we like the Lasko heaters and fan that are squirrel cage design.....they run between 50 and 75 dollars at Sams......I would stay clear of the cheaper heaters..
We also use the squirrel cage fans by Lasko for cooling......and just because there are two electrical plugs in the fans, doesn t mean we use them, except for low wattage items now and then......good luck, be safe..
All of our heaters have a safety cut off switch if get knocked over........

[KyDan]

Originally Posted by Barnman1

DO NOT change the 15 amp outlet with 20amp outlet, unless you change all of the outlets and breaker feeding the outlets to 20amp. A space heater is not intended to be the only functioning heater. It should only be used in cooperation with the gas furnace to save on gas usage.

You said in part-- DO NOT change the 15 amp outlet with 20amp outlet, unless you change all of the outlets and breaker

Why not??? There is no good electrical reason for that statement.
A 20 amp outlet just has heavier components. IF it is connected to a 15 amp
circuit the limiting factor is still the breaker but the outlet will be less prone
to heating due to the stronger spring pressure and better contact on the
prongs of the device plugged into it.

We use a space heater on occasion and sometimes it is on high all night.
Why not? My cord does not get hot. My outlet is 20 amp even tho it
is on 14 ga wire on a 15 amp dedicated breaker.
None of these get more than barely warm after keeping us warm all night!!

At home I have a space heater I use in my workshop on occasion.
I also have several 16 ga orange 25 foot extension cords. I use one to
power the heater.
I have discovered that one of them will get very warm on the male end.
The others do not. I'm satisfied the crimp connections in this particular
cord are weak, thus the hot end.

I should toss it but I just marked it and use it on occasion for other
things like running a fan in summer or hedge trimming etc.
I just don't use it for the space heater anymore.

The OP said his cord end got very hot. I suspect the outlet being weak
but it could be a faulty male plug on the heater cord- same as my weak
extension cord.

The scary part of many/most/all RV electrical wiring to me anyway, is
those cheap push to connect outlets they use.

[Barnman1]

Actually I was wrong in that I forgot to say "and all wires to 20amp rated" Read the NEC and see if it says it is ok to replace one element to a higher rated device. If a 20amp receptacle is placed in a 15amp circuit, the thing plugged into the outlet and the outlet will stay cool. Meanwhile the wiring and breaker are getting hot and even if the circuit breaker is not tripping the wires could cause a fire and nobody would know until flames appear. Just because you or somebody else have done it with no problems, doesn't mean they are ok. The NEC is set up for people's safety, and should be followed to the letter. It is also the reason licensed electricians charge what they do and why they are required to take yearly continuing education to maintain their license

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Barnman1

Actually I was wrong in that I forgot to say "and all wires to 20amp rated" Read the NEC and see if it says it is ok to replace one element to a higher rated device. If a 20amp receptacle is placed in a 15amp circuit, the thing plugged into the outlet and the outlet will stay cool. Meanwhile the wiring and breaker are getting hot and even if the circuit breaker is not tripping the wires could cause a fire and nobody would know until flames appear. Just because you or somebody else have done it with no problems, doesn't mean they are ok. The NEC is set up for people's safety, and should be followed to the letter. It is also the reason licensed electricians charge what they do and why they are required to take yearly continuing education to maintain their license

I read this several times and still don't get it. I have a 30 amp RV outlet on a dedicated 20 amp breaker wired with 12/2 and a ground. As long as the breaker is rated for the lowest component in the circuit you are "safe", no? If not, why not?

The link to the NEC code cited would also be handy (or of you can't link to it a scanned "cut and paste" of the reference would also do.)

[OldCoot]

You're right Herk, the breaker protects the wire. The outlet amperage rating has nothing to do with anything. You could wire a 60 amp outlet for a welder with speaker wire as long as the breaker was low enough to protect the wire.
Of course the box would be useless, but protected.

[Rod Johnson]

I find it difficult to insert speaker wire into the backs of outlets...

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Rod Johnson

I find it difficult to insert speaker wire into the backs of outlets...

That is why there are screws on the sides.

Now; I know it is Black on Brass and White on Silver.
What do you use for speaker wire to observe polarity?

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by herk7769

That is why there are screws on the sides.

Now; I know it is Black on Brass and White on Silver.
What do you use for speaker wire to observe polarity?

It is like a flat extension cord, one side has a ridge(s) and the other is smooth. Don't think I said I had used the speaker wire on a 60amp outlet , was just making a point that the outlet has no bearing whatsoever on the wire used, just that the breaker protects the wire, not the outlet.

[Rod Johnson]

The ridges and stripes always get me confused. I test it with my tongue, whichever one gives me a 60Hz jiggle goes on the brass screw. Or is that the green screw? Ain't never burned nothin down, yet.

Why? Is there an easier way?

[KyDan]

Originally Posted by Barnman1

Actually I was wrong in that I forgot to say "and all wires to 20amp rated" Read the NEC and see if it says it is ok to replace one element to a higher rated device. If a 20amp receptacle is placed in a 15amp circuit, the thing plugged into the outlet and the outlet will stay cool. Meanwhile the wiring and breaker are getting hot and even if the circuit breaker is not tripping the wires could cause a fire and nobody would know until flames appear. Just because you or somebody else have done it with no problems, doesn't mean they are ok. The NEC is set up for people's safety, and should be followed to the letter. It is also the reason licensed electricians charge what they do and why they are required to take yearly continuing education to maintain their license

I'm gonna argue with you all day long.

IF you upgrade a circuit breaker you have to upgrade the wire and
outlets. Yep I agree with that.

If you put in a heavy duty duplex outlet in a light duty 15 amp circuit
there is nothing wrong with that.
Code doesn't care what the outlet says on it as long as the outlet is
rated at LEAST as high amps as the connected wire and circuit breaker.
Same as wiring a house with all 12ga wire. I've seen that done many times.
They still put in 15 amp breaker for bedroom and lighting circuits.
No code violation there.

(Now that copper is high as gold you won't find them doing that much
anymore!!)

I don't recommend running any circuit near max amps load all the
time but a properly
connected and securely wired circuit is not a danger even if you are
drawing 12 amps out of a 15 amp rated circuit.
If the circuit was not capable of 15 amps why allow a 15 amp circuit
breaker in the first place?!?

OK I'm looking online and duplex outlets rated 20 amp now have a T shaped
slot on one side. Those might need to be on a true 20 amp circuit.
Older sockets that actually say 20 amp on the back do not have the T slot
and can be used on EITHER 15 amp or 20 amp circuits.
I still think you can get "heavy duty" duplex outlets that are 20 amp rated
and do not have the T shaped slot on one side but I haven't looked in
stores lately.

And back to the trailer hot plug.... my advice is still change the receptacle
first and see what happens.

Oh yeah, the following is a quote off the Home Depot outlet buying guide.
"Because 15-amp receptacles can be used with 20-amp circuits, most of the receptacles you see in homes are the standard 15-amp variety, with two slots and a u-shaped grounding hole. "

[myredracer]

Brother, this has been made to be confusing quickly when it's not plus some incorrect things have been said. I can't go over all the posts and respond, but here's kinda the story.

You should NOT upgrade a branch circuit receptacle to 20 amps unless the supply wire feeding it (inside trailer) is rated 20 amps and the breaker is 20 amps. What if someone came along and plugged in an appliance with a 20 amp rating and the wiring in the walls was only 15 amps (#14 ga.)?

You should NOT have to install a 20 amp receptacle if you think the contact pressure inside is not enough. If you really think that's issue (and I highly doubt it) you could install a 15 amp commercial spec. (aka "spec. grade) receptacle. These have a higher contact pressure. Or if you think that's still not good enough, you could use a "hospital grade" recept. which has even higher contact pressure. The hospital grade ones are really hard on the hand to push/pull a plug....

If you find the plug and/or recept. are warm, take a look at the plug. The prongs may need cleaning. Or more likely, especially if it has been used outdoors, the conductor stands are corroded. This is quite common. In that case, you need to cut back the cord until you find shiny copper and re-attach the plug.

If the campground voltage does indeed drop, this does NOT cause the amperage of the heater to increase. Portable heaters are purely resistive. Some heaters are rated dual voltage, such as in 208 volt for commercial use and 240 for residential. You will find a sticker on them 208/240 volts. Heater output varies as the square of the voltage. Here is a dual rated heater from HD: http://tinyurl.com/B-B-heater208/240 x 208/240 = 0.75. So in the case of a 2000 watt heater rated at 240 volts, it becomes a 1500 watt heater if connected at 208 volts. This is basic Ohm's law. So a 2000 watt heater at 240 volt draws 8.3 amps while connected at 208 volts draws 7.2 amps.

I really do not think that RV type receptacles are a problem in any way. The problem is when the wires are NOT terminated properly on the push-on "stabs." I pulled two receptacles out of the wall in our TT and found that on one of them, the conductor on one of them was not properly terminated and only one of the two stabs was connected. These RV receptacles are made by reputable wiring device companies like Pass & Seymour and meet all required safety standards and codes. It is commonplace nowadays for receptacles in houses to have "push in" wiring connections on the back instead of, or as well as, screw terminals. There's no way I will use those push-in connections. The contact pressure simply can't be as high as two stab connections on the back of an RV recept. Yet they meet all required standards.

Receptacles do not last forever and with a lot of use, they can wear out. Especially the el-cheapo 69 cent HD ones. I always go to an electrical wholesaler for electrical supplies and get commercial grade or premium residential grade items.

I am pretty certain that the OP has a cheapie heater with a 16 gauge cord which will definitely get warm or hot with continuous use. Assuming it has an appropriate safety sticker, I'd at least consider replacing the cord on it with a 14 gauge. Still not good for a heater to be running continuous though so that's only part of the answer.

BTW, feeding a 30 amp RV panel with a 15 amp rated extension cord is not a problem whatsoever as long as the breaker at the supply end of the extension cord is 15 amps. You *could* have a 1000 amp breaker in your RV if you wanted, fed by a 15 amp extension cord as long as there is that 15 amp breaker at the begining of it all.

[cootr68]

Just get a metal coffee can, kitty litter and a big bottle of zippo lighter fluid. That's how grandpa used to (cough) heat the(cough) ice fishing shack (cough cough cough) when I was a kid.

[Herk7769]

I got all of Myredracer's points except one.

[QUOTE=myredracer;192946]You should NOT upgrade a branch circuit receptacle to 20 amps unless the supply wire feeding it (inside trailer) is rated 20 amps and the breaker is 20 amps. What if someone came along and plugged in an appliance with a 20 amp rating and the wiring in the walls was only 15 amps (#14 ga.)?[QUOTE}

I assume by a 20 amp "rating" you meant actually "pulled" 20 amps when running. If you plugged that item (heater say) into a 15 amp fused circuit; it would trip just like any other overloaded circuit. No?

Also as to the 20 amp "T" slot sockets, they are made that way to accept "normal" 15 amp appliances and appliances that require a 20 amp circuit.

An appliance that requires a 20 amp circuit is eqiupped with a PLUG that will not plug into a 15 amp rated duplex. It looks like:

[Barnman1]

Oh really? What about one that has been changed by say uh some camper that god some bad info on a message board?

[Barnman1]

My whole point on my first comment was to make this point. If someone puts in a 20amp outlet the sells the trailer. The person who buys it doesn't know a lot but sees a 20 amp outlet so puts something 20amp connected to it and keeps tripping the breaker. Someone says oh change the breaker to 20amp to match the outlet, then poof wire catches fire. Do you all think you can turn everything on in your trailer if you have the 30 to 15 amp adapter?

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by Barnman1

Oh really? What about one that has been changed by say uh some camper that got some bad info on a message board?

The outlet can be any amperage as long as the breaker is of the minimum amperage for the wire. The 14ga wire is only good for 15 amp and the breaker should be 15 amp also. If someone had a 15 amp outlet that was wired with 12ga (20 amp), the breaker should still be 15 amp. Rule of thumb as stated by Herk before is the breaker should be the same amperage as the lowest amperage device on the circuit, be it the wire or the outlet.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Barnman1

Oh really? What about one that has been changed by say uh some camper that god some bad info on a message board?

Trent, whose post was that in reply to?

As to "got some bad info on a message board" you have a valid point.

However, everyone on an open forum should understand that you are getting opinions here (even when backed up by links or documents that support it).

It is always a joke that someone is an "expert" because he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Posters on an open forum can say they are engineers or doctors or rich or handsome or beautiful or master plumbers or electricians with absolutely no idea on the reader's part if any of that is actually true.

If you do something like install the remote awning switch in F1100turbo's thread and it fries your wiring; you are just going to get a"Gee, that's tough man, it did not happen to mine." You might not even get that!

Caveat Lector means "Let the Reader Beware." You can ask for advice, but free advice is worth every penny. Some is going to be better than others. All can be wrong. You are going to have to decide if trying a fix suggested here is within the scope of your expertise. If it is not; then hire someone you trust to do the job.

This board has a "reliability rating system" that is powered by the "THANKS" button. If you like what was said or you tried a fix and it worked; press the thanks button and leave a comment. Your reliability rating goes up and if you are on the fence as to who to believe that rating can be checked.

Hope that answers your post.

[Sgt. Schultz]

OP have you tried the heater on a known good outlet to see if it heats up to the same degree? If not I suggest you try that and if it heats up to the same extent remove from use - if not then continue trouble shooting but check / change the cord as the heat you are describing could have damaged the cord to the point of making it unsafe.
Just my 2 cents

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by Barnman1

My whole point on my first comment was to make this point. If someone puts in a 20amp outlet the sells the trailer. The person who buys it doesn't know a lot but sees a 20 amp outlet so puts something 20amp connected to it and keeps tripping the breaker. Someone says oh change the breaker to 20amp to match the outlet, then poof wire catches fire. Do you all think you can turn everything on in your trailer if you have the 30 to 15 amp adapter?

I don't recall seeing any outlet stamped or marked with amperage except on the back which requires removing it. But, I will sure start being a little more observant and start checking. I have been wrong too many times before.

As for turning everything on in the camper while using a 30-15 adapter, one has to assume the user has a certain amount of common sense and that it would be in play.

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by herk7769

trent, whose post was that in reply to?

As to "got some bad info on a message board" you have a valid point.

However, everyone on an open forum should understand that you are getting opinions here (even when backed up by links or documents that support it).

It is always a joke that someone is an "expert" because he stayed at a holiday inn express last night. Posters on an open forum can say they are engineers or doctors or rich or handsome or beautiful or master plumbers or electricians with absolutely no idea on the reader's part if any of that is actually true.

if you do something like install the remote awning switch in f1100turbo's thread and it fries your wiring; you are just going to get a"gee, that's tough man, it did not happen to mine." you might not even get that!

caveat lector means "let the reader beware." you can ask for advice, but free advice is worth every penny. Some is going to be better than others. All can be wrong. You are going to have to decide if trying a fix suggested here is within the scope of your expertise. If it is not; then hire someone you trust to do the job.

This board has a "reliability rating system" that is powered by the "thanks" button. If you like what was said or you tried a fix and it worked; press the thanks button and leave a comment. Your reliability rating goes up and if you are on the fence as to who to believe that rating can be checked.

Hope that answers your post.

that didnt happen right ?