AGS set of ‘Off”, But Still Generator Starting on its Own? 2019 Isata 5 35DB

[BLT4SPD]

Scenario: We are on shore power (currently on 50amp, but has happened with 30amp and 15amp shore connections) with the AGS set to ‘Off’ and has always been set to ‘Off’. Then, out of the blue, the generator starts. No big loads running and I feel like that wouldn’t matter if we’re on 50amp power anyway. It just simply starts. I am able to shut it down from either the touch screen or the manual switch on the genset itself, but it’ll restart itself eventually.

It _seems_ like this happens mostly when it’s cold out. It happened quite frequently at our house when it was sub-freezing and I had it on 15amp shore power just to keep the batteries charged. Once we left that environment, it stopped happening. However, it just happened again this morning in TX where we’ve seen temps in the high 30s, but also on 50amp power. In some of the Magnum documentation, I see reference to a battery temp sensor, but it LOOKS like that’s for OVER-temp situations. It’s possible it’s looking for UNDER-Temp situations as well, but not sure on that one.

Another small “wrinkle” to this is the fact that it doesn’t seems like the generator power isn’t actually getting power transferred to the inverter/charger. When this was happening at our house, I _thought_ that maybe it was sensing that my 15amp shore power wasn’t keeping up and the generator was starting to compensate (even though I had AGS set to ‘off’). However, when I tried to start a bigger load, like the electric heat, the only thing that would happen was the breaker inside the sticks-and-bricks house for the shore power would trip. That obviously says that the coach was still looking to that shore connection for power despite the fact that an on-board 8kw genset was running. I then attempted starting the electric heat with shore power disconnected and even though the generator was running, the electric heat would not come on. I was also unable to turn the battery charger ‘On’ from the Magnum control panel inside the coach. Again, that says to me that the Inverter/Charger has no clue that the generator is running. I _assume_ that means that the transfer switch is not transferring when the genset is running, but you know what happens when you assume something!

Maybe they are unrelated, but my gut says that these two issues are tied together. So:

1. What could cause the generator to start with AGS set to ‘Off’?
2. What could cause the transfer switch to not detect that the genset is running?

[bclemens]

Where do you have AGS turned off at? Do you have the plex software version or the hard magnum switch?

[BLT4SPD]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Where do you have AGS turned off at? Do you have the plex software version or the hard magnum switch?

Not sure what the “Flex” version is. I do not have a hard switch…..at least that I have seen. I have it turned off through the touchscreen inside the coach.

Actually, I’ve never set-up the AGS system. I’ve always started/stopped the generator manually as-needed.

[Slolane]

I’ve had the breaker on the generator trip several times. If it’s open the generator will run but the transfer switch won’t see the power.

[formerFR]

some notes:

A) the generator's own BREAKER could be tripped - if the generator is 'running' and yet you have no internal 120v power, the CHARGER will not function.

B) there's no 'sharing' of both 120v shore power and generator power, whether you are plugged into 50a, 30a, 15a, or any amount in between... as your ATS(automatic transfer switch) is going to always 'default' to GENERATOR only, if the generator is running AND it's breaker is not tripped...otherwise, your ATS will allow the Shore power to flow - it's only one power source, or the other.

C) the AGS, if OFF or not Enabled, should not be starting your generator, and it's probably NOT - but, there has been discussions of generators starting on their own. Onan is probably the best source to discuss this issue with, as it should not be happening.
Even if your AGS was 'Enabled', but you are on shore power, of any amount, you should never have the AGS starting the Generator, UNLESS you have LOST shore power(or your shore power's breaker trips), and the battery levels fall to/below the set AGS Volts, even if the shore power is then restored - the AGS will run the generator for the full 'RUN TIME', not matter.

Now, if you happen to have the AGS Enabled AND you ALSO have the AGS TEMP setting high enough, you could see it starting the Generator in order to run the Air Conditioners, if they are set to 'ON', themselves... otherwise it would be just running because the AGS temp has reached it's trigger point - but all that is also doubtful if you have the AGS not enabled.

I think that you are right when it comes to the outside TEMP having something to do with the Generator starting on it's own, as that seems to be the only common scenario. Why would 'low temps' cause it to mysteriously start? That's the hard question - Onan may have some insight.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by formerFR

I think that you are right when it comes to the outside TEMP having something to do with the Generator starting on it's own, as that seems to be the only common scenario. Why would 'low temps' cause it to mysteriously start? That's the hard question - Onan may have some insight.

Low temperature can do some spooky things. Nearly 40 years ago on a cold (-40 degrees) Minnesota night DW and I were awakened by a car horn honking. It would honk for a few minutes, then stop for a minute or two, then resume.

Eventually we figured out it was from the neighbor's son's Ford Pinto. The horn relay (a combination of plastic and metal) had contracted in the cold in such a way as to close the contacts and start the horn. Once current started flowing, it warmed and would open and cool, then repeat. We just unplugged the relay to get a night's sleep and conserve the car's battery.

Larry

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Low temperature can do some spooky things. Nearly 40 years ago on a cold (-40 degrees) Minnesota night DW and I were awakened by a car horn honking. It would honk for a few minutes, then stop for a minute or two, then resume.

Eventually we figured out it was from the neighbor's son's Ford Pinto. The horn relay (a combination of plastic and metal) had contracted in the cold in such a way as to close the contacts and start the horn. Once current started flowing, it warmed and would open and cool, then repeat. We just unplugged the relay to get a night's sleep and conserve the car's battery.

Larry

That's strange. Here all these years I've thought the only issue with Pinto's was that they exploded.

[MouseHouse]

Originally Posted by BLT4SPD

Not sure what the “Flex” version is. I do not have a hard switch…..at least that I have seen. I have it turned off through the touchscreen inside the coach.

Actually, I’ve never set-up the AGS system. I’ve always started/stopped the generator manually as-needed.

Our switch is located in the cab-over bunk area. We learned about that when our kid accidentally turned it on.

[Delco Bobby]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Low temperature can do some spooky things. Nearly 40 years ago on a cold (-40 degrees) Minnesota night DW and I were awakened by a car horn honking. It would honk for a few minutes, then stop for a minute or two, then resume.



Eventually we figured out it was from the neighbor's son's Ford Pinto. The horn relay (a combination of plastic and metal) had contracted in the cold in such a way as to close the contacts and start the horn. Once current started flowing, it warmed and would open and cool, then repeat. We just unplugged the relay to get a night's sleep and conserve the car's battery.



Larry

Ha, we had that car horn problem with both our Chrysler and Plymouth.

[caseymyers]

Maybe they are unrelated, but my gut says that these two issues are tied together. So:

1. What could cause the generator to start with AGS set to ‘Off’?
2. What could cause the transfer switch to not detect that the genset is running?[/QUOTE]

My wife has bumped against the remote Generator 'Start' switch in the bedroom while make the bed. Scares both of us but each time I've figured out she unknowingly touched the start switch. Do you have a remote switch that could be accidentally touched?

[formerFR]

maybe, but the typical Generator Start switch requires you to hold down the switch for a while until it cranks - not necessarily a situation where anybody 'accidentally' cranking the generator is probably a possibility ...

now, if the internal contactors within the Generator start switch are getting extremely cold, and possibly creating a situation where this could cause the contacts to somehow make 'contact'... that's a different story.

[caseymyers]

Originally Posted by formerFR

maybe, but the typical Generator Start switch requires you to hold down the switch for a while until it cranks - not necessarily a situation where anybody 'accidentally' cranking the generator is probably a possibility ...

now, if the internal contactors within the Generator start switch are getting extremely cold, and possibly creating a situation where this could cause the contacts to somehow make 'contact'... that's a different story.

These aren't 'typical' switches. They are both just lightly touch once and they start blinking and auto start the GenSet. When I first got it I used to hold it down like most start switches and actually it won't start in that fashion. Just a light touch. I walked by it one day routing a wire and must have bumped it because it started and of course it surprises me every time because of the sudden loud noise you aren't expecting.

[RV Randy]

If you have the mechanical AGS switch like the one shown in the overhead bunk photo, you have to make sure its really off. Its a 3 position rocker switch. My wife accidentally pushed it once and the generator kept automatically starting, I moved it one position thinking I had turned it from ON to OFF, but it started again. Then figured out I had to move it one more click to OFF and it stopped starting automatically.

If you read the AGS manual there are several parameters that can be adjusted to define what you want AGS to monitor to control generator start/run. You may want to check that control board to see what the settings are. But, if the switch is in the correct OFF position then it still shouldnt start automatically. There is a plug on a cable that runs from the remote (what you see inside with the ON-TEST-OFF switch) to the control board which is outside the cabin. Make sure that isnt loose or intermittent where it connects to the board. I believe in the manual it explains that when you first plug in the remote, it will trigger an automatic start sequence. If that plug is loose and causing an intermittent connection, which could be related to the cold temps, it might be causing this. Could also be a bad control board with a bad solder joint that is being impacted by the cold.

[BLT4SPD]

Originally Posted by MouseHouse

Our switch is located in the cab-over bunk area. We learned about that when our kid accidentally turned it on.Attachment 192180

Thanks for the picture, that spells it out pretty clearly.

With that said, I do not have the hard switch. I have two options for turning AGS on/off. One is through the Precision Plex touch screen and one is through the Magnum inverter control panel.

[BLT4SPD]

Originally Posted by Slolane

I’ve had the breaker on the generator trip several times. If it’s open the generator will run but the transfer switch won’t see the power.

Any idea what was tripping it in your case?

Seems odd that you and I would both have it trip. 8,000w/240v = 33.333amps and that would explain the 35amp breaker on the genset, but I don't _think_ that I've had 35amps worth of load running at any given time. I've driven across Texas with an ambient temp of 107DegF and had the genset running to drive both AC units as "we want it cold in here" was the temperature setting on the t-stat and the breaker didn't trip. So, parked in my driveway with very few loads on it and it trips? The only thing I can think of would be the electric heat, BUT I feel confident that I didn't have both of them running at the same time......and even if I had, would that have been over 35amps?

[BLT4SPD]

So, update from my end on this one:

1. Yes, low and behold the main breaker on the genset itself was tripped. I find this very surprising because I feel pretty confident that I checked it as I have always known it was there. HOWEVER, I’m willing to accept the fact that I somehow overlooked it and just glad that I am able to power the coach on generator power. I was fearful of a bad transfer switch or something like that. Turns out I’m just dumb and usually my dumb-ness costs money, but this time it seems to have saved me money, so YAY me!

2. I’m still a little baffled as to why it would auto-start the generator with AGS off. It hasn’t happened in a couple weeks now, but I feel like I am constantly waiting for it to happen. I also feel lucky that we’ve been around the coach at the times it has happened so we were able to shut it off. I recognize that even if it did start while we were away for the day, there wouldn’t be any “damage”, but it would certainly be unnecessary “wear and tear”. So, if anybody has any other thoughts or additional stuff to check, I am all ears.

New question now that we know I’m a dolt and didn’t see the main generator breaker tripped: Is there any chance that the generator performs some sort of “exercise” routine just to make sure that it gets run from time to time and doesn’t sit idle for an extended period of time?

I’m reaching for sure because the frequency that it starts itself is VERY random, but just thinking out loud at this point. It definitely feels like it’s temperature related (and low temperature to boot), but I can’t swear to that yet.

[bclemens]

We have seen those breakers trip from shock...IE, hit a pothole and the force has dropped the breaker. We had a customer come in one time with tape on the breaker.

[dannko]

Originally Posted by BLT4SPD

So, update from my end on this one:

1. Yes, low and behold the main breaker on the genset itself was tripped. I find this very surprising because I feel pretty confident that I checked it as I have always known it was there. HOWEVER, I’m willing to accept the fact that I somehow overlooked it and just glad that I am able to power the coach on generator power. I was fearful of a bad transfer switch or something like that. Turns out I’m just dumb and usually my dumb-ness costs money, but this time it seems to have saved me money, so YAY me!

2. I’m still a little baffled as to why it would auto-start the generator with AGS off. It hasn’t happened in a couple weeks now, but I feel like I am constantly waiting for it to happen. I also feel lucky that we’ve been around the coach at the times it has happened so we were able to shut it off. I recognize that even if it did start while we were away for the day, there wouldn’t be any “damage”, but it would certainly be unnecessary “wear and tear”. So, if anybody has any other thoughts or additional stuff to check, I am all ears.

New question now that we know I’m a dolt and didn’t see the main generator breaker tripped: Is there any chance that the generator performs some sort of “exercise” routine just to make sure that it gets run from time to time and doesn’t sit idle for an extended period of time?

I’m reaching for sure because the frequency that it starts itself is VERY random, but just thinking out loud at this point. It definitely feels like it’s temperature related (and low temperature to boot), but I can’t swear to that yet.

Ben,

Have you read my issues, well want a good laugh? I was sitting in the coach today at Disney, and something goes bam, the dogs started barking at the bam, and I thought what the hell was that, it was the gen started up. I have everything off, no AGS enable, no nothing. So guess what, add another to my ever growing list of aggravations. Glad I was in here. I am not understanding this breaker trip on the gen or where it's at. This coach is haunted. What's next?

[caseymyers]

Maybe you bumped a start switch? There are a couple, is it possible a dog bumped up against a switch? With AGS off, I'm puzzled it would start by its self.

[dannko]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

Maybe you bumped a start switch? There are a couple, is it possible a dog bumped up against a switch? With AGS off, I'm puzzled it would start by its self.

nope, sitting at dinette, dogs sitting, but just like Ben, it started. The only thing I figure is the ac cut off (which may be because gen started) and maybe there was a slight glitch in the shore power, but nothing that noticeable.