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Old 12-05-2019, 04:01 PM   #1
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Anyone put Lithium Ion in their DX3?

Hey all-

My charging system failed in storage (GFCI tripped during storm) and finished off my lead acid house batteries in my 2016 DX3. Battle Born happened to be having a cyber Monday sale and I took the plunge. I called their tech support to discuss charging parameters and my system, but I could not answer all their questions about the DX3.

Does anyone know what the output of the alternator is on the M2? I looked in the manual and it is not listed anywhere.

Battle Born recommends a maximum charging rate of 100 amps when using two of their 100 amp batteries, but I know that during bulk charging on shore power and with the generator I have see at least 130 amps a few times. Is there a way to limit the output, or do you need an add on component.

If you have done the conversion on your DX3, please let me know what you ended up doing. I know that the BIRD connects the starting batteries to the house to charge them once a certain voltage is reached. I suspect that the alternator output can be way north of 100 amps.

Thanks
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:17 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by KAT-A-TONIC View Post
Hey all-

My charging system failed in storage (GFCI tripped during storm) and finished off my lead acid house batteries in my 2016 DX3. Battle Born happened to be having a cyber Monday sale and I took the plunge. I called their tech support to discuss charging parameters and my system, but I could not answer all their questions about the DX3.

Does anyone know what the output of the alternator is on the M2? I looked in the manual and it is not listed anywhere.

Battle Born recommends a maximum charging rate of 100 amps when using two of their 100 amp batteries, but I know that during bulk charging on shore power and with the generator I have see at least 130 amps a few times. Is there a way to limit the output, or do you need an add on component.

If you have done the conversion on your DX3, please let me know what you ended up doing. I know that the BIRD connects the starting batteries to the house to charge them once a certain voltage is reached. I suspect that the alternator output can be way north of 100 amps.

Thanks
What model is you Converter? If the converter is rated for less than 100 amp then it shouldn't charge the batteries faster than Battleborn recommends.

How are you measuring the current? If with a battery monitor like a Victron perhaps it needs a "Zero Current Calibration" if the converter is not larger than a 100 amp size.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by KAT-A-TONIC View Post
Hey all-

My charging system failed in storage (GFCI tripped during storm) and finished off my lead acid house batteries in my 2016 DX3. Battle Born happened to be having a cyber Monday sale and I took the plunge. I called their tech support to discuss charging parameters and my system, but I could not answer all their questions about the DX3.

Does anyone know what the output of the alternator is on the M2? I looked in the manual and it is not listed anywhere.

Battle Born recommends a maximum charging rate of 100 amps when using two of their 100 amp batteries, but I know that during bulk charging on shore power and with the generator I have see at least 130 amps a few times. Is there a way to limit the output, or do you need an add on component.

If you have done the conversion on your DX3, please let me know what you ended up doing. I know that the BIRD connects the starting batteries to the house to charge them once a certain voltage is reached. I suspect that the alternator output can be way north of 100 amps.

Thanks
https://dynamaxcorp.com/class-c-motorhomes/dx3
In the specs it calls out a 275 amp alternator.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:59 PM   #4
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Brian, thanks for the info. I figured out how to adjust the charging system (shore power and generator) to only put out 100 amps max. It was in the advanced settings for the inverter/charger. My only issue now is I need to install a battery to battery charger system so that I can limit the amps going to the lithium bank from the alternator when the coach is running.

What do I need to do to disable the BIRD? I assume that I cant tie the house and starting batteries together anymore. Do you know if I could just install the battery to battery charger on the output side of the relay so that when they are connected due to suitable voltage on the starting battery that it will go through the charger and limit the amperage? Do you know if I need to remove the trigger that connects the two banks when there is shore power or the generator is on?

Maybe disable the BIRD altogether and just leave all the connections on the relay which will now be inoperable?

If anyone has done these specific actions, please let me know what you ended up doing.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:53 AM   #5
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Well, if you look at some of the other posts there is one one "BIM" replacement. That is where they replaced the BIRD with a BIM. and the BIM comes in regular and Lithium.

I also had a question about the BIM, concerned about the lead acid side and it appears that the BIM still assumes a lead acid chassis battery.

Here is a couple of things I had on them.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 00-10041-26x-Li-BIM-Rev1.pdf (619.4 KB, 24 views)
File Type: pdf Relion_SafetyLithiumBattery.pdf (267.5 KB, 22 views)
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:31 AM   #6
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Well, if you look at some of the other posts there is one one "BIM" replacement. That is where they replaced the BIRD with a BIM. and the BIM comes in regular and Lithium.

I also had a question about the BIM, concerned about the lead acid side and it appears that the BIM still assumes a lead acid chassis battery.

Here is a couple of things I had on them.
Brian, the problem with the BIRD or the BIM as I read it is that it does not limit the current to the lithium bank. If the BIM has a current limiting feature, please let me know. Battle Born recommends charging the lithium bank at .5C in my case 100 amps max. The alternator puts out over 200, so in theory you could over current the lithium bank when they hard connect. I will be contacting Battle Born and try to get this figured out. They recommend a battery to battery charger that limits current flow, but it does not allow the charging of the chassis battery from the house when the generator is running as far as I know.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:59 PM   #7
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I haven't looked enough into it...but I did notice that the BIM takes into account the lead acid side of things (which I was concerned with).

I know the Relion's have their own internal battery monitor to prevent overcharging, etc.
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Old 12-10-2019, 05:48 PM   #8
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Battle Born happened to be having a cyber Monday sale and I took the plunge.

I bought 4 of their batteries during the sale as well and installed them in our 2017 DX3 37RB. I've been having some questions myself about combining the AGM chassis batteries with the Lithiums. Looks like I'll need to install a Li-Bim for alternator charging. I'm not a whiz at electrical stuff and boy am I knocking my head against the wall trying to get everything sorted out.
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:53 PM   #9
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I bought 4 of their batteries during the sale as well and installed them in our 2017 DX3 37RB. I've been having some questions myself about combining the AGM chassis batteries with the Lithiums. Looks like I'll need to install a Li-Bim for alternator charging. I'm not a whiz at electrical stuff and boy am I knocking my head against the wall trying to get everything sorted out.
I have decided that it is not worth the $300 to $400 it would cost to buy a battery to battery charger to charge the lithium bank from the alternator while traveling. Battle Born said I should not combine the banks with the BIRD system that my 2016 has. I figure if my lithiums need charging while I am underway, the generator will take care of it, just as it does when I am stopped and not plugged in. I spent quite a bit of time talking with Battle Born about the best charging parameters for their battery and I set up my chargers "custom" setting exactly as they said would be best. They also indicated that the "AGM" setting would be fine, but since I had a custom setting available, I went ahead and used it. I disabled the battery combiner by pulling the wire the activates the solenoid to combine the banks. This means charging the chassis batteries on a charger when the rig is parked, and no on the go charging for the house banks. I will re-evaluate this arrangement at the end of my dune camping season.

I have no desire to destroy my new $800 batteries.
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Old 12-10-2019, 07:39 PM   #10
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I spent quite a bit of time talking with Battle Born about the best charging parameters for their battery and I set up my chargers "custom" setting exactly as they said would be best.

I have the Xantrex Freedom SW 3012 with the SCP (System Control Panel). I assume you have a similar setup. I put the SCP in Custom as well and changed some settings that BB provided on their website. Can you post your settings so I can compare? Also, do you have a picture of or a description of disconnecting the wire to disable the battery combiner?
Thanks for the help!
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Old 12-10-2019, 08:07 PM   #11
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I have the Xantrex Freedom SW 3012 with the SCP (System Control Panel). I assume you have a similar setup. I put the SCP in Custom as well and changed some settings that BB provided on their website. Can you post your settings so I can compare? Also, do you have a picture of or a description of disconnecting the wire to disable the battery combiner?
Thanks for the help!
Bulk charge at 14.4 V
Absorption charge at 14.6 V
Float at 13.6 V or use no float. (2 stage charging)
Temp compensation 0 mV (Already built in the batteries)
30 minute time per battery in the bank absorption limit.
Disable the equalization.
Generator auto start at 12.5 V for 30 seconds. (This is not hard and fast and can be taken lower.)

Reading the manual to find out how to make these changes takes some time. No way I could have done it without having it open. Most are under the advanced settings menu.

To disable the solenoid you just pull the wire from the BIRD that is marked SOL. I think it was purple, but not 100% sure on that. They use the solenoid as a lug to attach other wires, so you cant remove it without installing a couple lugs to keep the wires that are attached to the battery wires connected.
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Old 12-10-2019, 08:20 PM   #12
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I have decided that it is not worth the $300 to $400 it would cost to buy a battery to battery charger to charge the lithium bank from the alternator while traveling.
A less expensive way to to charge the BB's while driving down the road is a Renogy DC-DC battery charger. Their 40 amp model is only $169 right now

https://www.renogy.com/12v-dc-to-dc-...ttery-charger/

I am using their 20 amp version to charge my TT's batteries while driving and it works great. Voltages are user controlled through DIP switches.

The unit acts like an Isolator as well and when the Ignition Switch is off, the chassis battery is isolated from the Coach batteries. Only downside (if it really is one) is that the coach battery is not charged from the converter.

Simple fix, just use a battery maintainer connected to coach AC system. When generator runs or connected to shore power, starting battery is charged if it needs it.

System is not expensive and in my mind a lot less prone to problems than some Isolator/Charger systems especially when you have "mixed battery chemistry aboard.
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Old 12-10-2019, 10:26 PM   #13
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A less expensive way to to charge the BB's while driving down the road is a Renogy DC-DC battery charger. Their 40 amp model is only $169 right now

https://www.renogy.com/12v-dc-to-dc-...ttery-charger/

I am using their 20 amp version to charge my TT's batteries while driving and it works great. Voltages are user controlled through DIP switches.

The unit acts like an Isolator as well and when the Ignition Switch is off, the chassis battery is isolated from the Coach batteries. Only downside (if it really is one) is that the coach battery is not charged from the converter.

Simple fix, just use a battery maintainer connected to coach AC system. When generator runs or connected to shore power, starting battery is charged if it needs it.

System is not expensive and in my mind a lot less prone to problems than some Isolator/Charger systems especially when you have "mixed battery chemistry aboard.
What do you mean that the coach batteries are not charged from the converter? Does this setup disable charging the coach when on generator or shore power?
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:20 AM   #14
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Meant to say chassis or starting battery. When key is off it isolates house batteries from the starting battery.
Converter still works as normal to charge house batteries but if worried about starting battery going dead an alternate means is required when engine is off like the maintainer I mentioned.
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What do you mean that the coach batteries are not charged from the converter? Does this setup disable charging the coach when on generator or shore power?
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:53 AM   #15
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I built this chart to understand the voltage differences between Battle Born batteries and the lead-acid chassis battery.

I was able to adjust my Battery Control Center voltage to match the 13.4V of the Lithium Battery Isolation Manager.



See thread: My coach batteries stopped charging from the alternator. (Bad SDC-107A).
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