CO Issues

[bclemens]

While CO is slightly lighter than air.
The difference is so slight that CO is found to evenly distribute itself indoors. It is worth mentioning that CO indoors is usually generated from incomplete combustion (heat source).

It is also worth noting that all of our heat sources are out of floor/lower wall ducts.

We place LP/CO detectors where they are asked for by code. If there was an issue with them in their current location, we would all be written up for it.

Not saying separate detectors wouldn't be better...but just that "every RV OEM is wrong" is not accurate.

Part of the issue I can tell you is the confined space of an RV. There are SOOOOOO many rules of where you CAN'T place it (near a door, within so much distance from a register, near a panel, near this, near that)...that finding any spot is miraculous.

[rracer5]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

But everything that is running off 12 V is running off the converter--------including the detector(s).

FWIW, I never disconnect my battery merely because I'm hooked to shore power. Not unless I am putting the TT into hibernation for a long period of time.

WHY would anyone disconnect a battery just because they're hooked to shore power?

Now that I dug deeper into my grey matter, you're right Mike. If connectec to shore power and the converter is working to replenish the battery, it shouldn't be a battery issue.

Yes, never disconnect battery while camping. The battery acts as a buffer against voltage spikes when 12v appliances etc. are used. Although the newer "smart" converters probably have that in check. But, some people do it because they think they're "saving" the battery by not using it.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by bclemens

While CO is slightly lighter than air.
The difference is so slight that CO is found to evenly distribute itself indoors. It is worth mentioning that CO indoors is usually generated from incomplete combustion (heat source).

It is also worth noting that all of our heat sources are out of floor/lower wall ducts.

We place LP/CO detectors where they are asked for by code. If there was an issue with them in their current location, we would all be written up for it.

Not saying separate detectors wouldn't be better...but just that "every RV OEM is wrong" is not accurate.

Part of the issue I can tell you is the confined space of an RV. There are SOOOOOO many rules of where you CAN'T place it (near a door, within so much distance from a register, near a panel, near this, near that)...that finding any spot is miraculous.

Considering the number of complaints posted on various RV forums regarding the combination LPG/CO detectors perhaps it would be a good idea for the OEM's to challenge their supplier(s) to provide a better product OR use two different detectors from the factory.

It seems most complaints are in regards to the MTI units. "Posters" are finding that a) units have dates a couple years prior to the model year of their RV; b) are failing far sooner than the stated life expectancy/replacement interval.

[bclemens]

I'm not denying that...as stated in the bolded section.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I'm not denying that...as stated in the bolded section.

I got that part.

What about demanding a better product from your supplier(s).

[D W]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Considering the number of complaints posted on various RV forums regarding the combination LPG/CO detectors perhaps it would be a good idea for the OEM's to challenge their supplier(s) to provide a better product OR use two different detectors from the factory.

It seems most complaints are in regards to the MTI units. "Posters" are finding that a) units have dates a couple years prior to the model year of their RV; b) are failing far sooner than the stated life expectancy/replacement interval.

Interestingly enough, the manuals for the MTI Combination LP/CO Detectors contain a consumer protection paragraph "suggesting" the additional placement of CO Detectors near sleeping areas. So what are they saying?

My TT came with an LP Gas Detector on the floor, and a CO Detector along with a Smoke Detector located on the ceiling near the bedroom. All three detectors have expiration dates on April 2020 at which time I will summarily replace all three. Not worried about cost as I consider it cheap "life" insurance. The same for my home.

Furthermore, yes, the CO will eventually reach the floor, but only after the oxygen has been depleted below 19.5% creating an IDLH environment. Statistic show this often causes a soul to expire.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by D W

Interestingly enough, the manuals for the MTI Combination LP/CO Detectors contain a consumer protection paragraph "suggesting" the additional placement of CO Detectors near sleeping areas. So what are they saying?

My TT came with an LP Gas Detector on the floor, and a CO Detector along with a Smoke Detector located on the ceiling near the bedroom. All three detectors have expiration dates on April 2020 at which time I will summarily replace all three. Not worried about cost as I consider it cheap "life" insurance. The same for my home.

Furthermore, yes, the CO will eventually reach the floor, but only after the oxygen has been depleted below 19.5% creating an IDLH environment. Statistic show this often causes a soul to expire.

Exactly the reason I installed a CO detector (incorporated into a far better smoke detector than supplied by OEM) right over the sleeping area in my TT.

Unit was "fresh" and has an expiration date in 2024. OEM was halfway to expiration when I took delivery in July of 2017 and started false alarms in 2018. (Drove my Shih-TSU wild in the middle of the night).

Considered shooting the detector to shut it up. Figured either the alarm would quit or I'd be too deaf to hear it. [emoji15][emoji41][emoji16]
I settled for a pair of diagonal cutters on power feed followed by replacing with separate detectors.

[rracer5]

Replaced the original CO detector because it started beeping and flashing EOL code (end of life). 5'er was built Sept. 2013 and CO detector reached its' EOL this past May.

Also, a few years ago, the smoke alarm in the living area would go off arbitrarily. Blew it out because sometimes little buggy critters build nest/webs and that sets them off. But, one time it wouldn't stop so, tossed it.
Went to Sam's Club and came across a twin pack of First Alert 10 year smoke alarms. Cool...don't have to worry about changing those 9 volt batteries! Replaced both detectors (bedroom too), & tossed the bedroom one in a drawer. About 1 1/2 to 2 years later, the living area one went off for no apparent reason & wouldn't stop. Took it down and in my hast to shut it up, I pushed the little slider button on the bottom where it said "deactivate". Finally silence! Upon further reading of the labels, I found out that this slider/button completely AND permanently cuts the power source relegating the detector junk and in the trash. Last week the other one did the same thing & DW's hast to silence it, she did the same thing! So much for a "10 year" smoke alarm.

So, I go get the "spare" original out of the drawer and upon closer inspection, I find that it was in fact a CO detector and not a second smoke alarm that was originally in the bedroom! The 2 original detectors looked identical! Fortunately, being lazy, I had never removed the battery when I threw it in a drawer in the bedroom so hopefully it would have alerted if CO was detected. BTW, it's now back on the ceiling in the bedroom along with a new smoke alarm.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I got that part.

What about demanding a better product from your supplier(s).

I personally think that goes without saying.

[E T F]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I settled for a pair of diagonal cutters on power feed followed by replacing with separate detectors.

That's what I did on our last Class "C". Man, that thing was annoying. It was placed right down on the floor by the entry door. For a while I carried a portable gas sniffer so I could check every time the thing went off. It was always negative. Eventually I cut the wires and replaced it with portable plug in and battery units.

[mr.dirt]

move your garbage can away from the CO monitor might be the problem that how we fixed ours

[MikeRP]

Ok so I’ve had this problem many years in all my Rv’s.

1) Always assume the alarm is true. Without that alarm I would have killed my grandkids and my son and his wife and me and my wife. The alarm went off after someone went to the bathroom at night and barely moved the stove burner to on. I had just replaced the monitor. Now I always turn the propane off at night.

2). CO2 will kill ya just the same as CO. Coal Miners call CO2 blackdamp. It’s heavier than air and if Defected in your coach it means you have leak in the outlet of one of your combustion sources.

3)Have a propane leak check done annually.

4). I have another monitor in my bedroom.

5) the detector does sense a lot of stuff and at very low levels but that saves lives. Never ever disable it.

[NXR]

2). CO2 will kill ya just the same as CO. Coal Miners call CO2 blackdamp. It’s heavier than air and if Defected in your coach it means you have leak in the outlet of one of your combustion sources.

No, that is incorrect.

• CO2 is carbon dioxide, the waste gas produced by cellular life. You exhale it normally.
  
  
• Oddly, your body cannot directly detect too-low oxygen levels so it relies on too-high CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels.
  
  
• If CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels go high you experience shortness of breath because your body thinks the oxygen levels are too low (because the waste gas proportion is too high) and your body responds by breathing faster. This can happen in a car when the windows are closed, the system is set to "Recirculate air" to speed up cooling or heating and the car is fairly air-tight (or there are multiple people in the car).
  
  Commercial higher-end thermostats will incorporate a CO2 (carbon dioxide) detector to figure out when more ventilation is required. In my (much younger) days I used to wander over to another area of our large room and breathe on their thermostat during the winter to cause it to detect high CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels and open the ceiling vents full open, freezing those people.
  
  
• When you hyperventilate you drop your CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels too low. That allows you to hold your breath longer because, again, your body does not detect too-low oxygen levels but rather detects too-high CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels.
  
  Skin divers sometimes use hyperventilation to stay underwater longer but it can kill you because your blood oxygen levels can drop too low but your body doesn't know it because your blood CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels are still low due to the hyperventilation.
  
  
• The old trick to treat hyperventilation by breathing in and out of a paper bag works because you're breathing in already-exhaled carbon dioxide and thus raising your blood levels of carbon dioxide back to normal.
  
  
• A standard medical practice is to continuously monitor CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels being exhaled by a surgical patient. That tells everyone whether they are getting sufficient oxygen and whether "cellular respiration" is normal while the patient is under anesthesia or on a respirator.
  
  
• Carbon Monoxide (CO) kills because red blood cells, the ones that normally carry oxygen, bind with carbon monoxide (CO) more easily than they do with oxygen (a design defect?).
  
  The CO (carbon monoxide) molecules displace the oxygen in the red blood cells which causes your cells to die of asphyxiation. Because your body does not directly detect too-low oxygen levels it just works without many symptoms.

Ray

[MikeRP]

Ray,

I’m not challenging most of what you said except one thing, carbon dioxide is a killer. It’s heavier than air and it normally would have traces of nitrogen and other inert gases. It’s the product of good combustion.

So a propane refrigerator or heating system with an outlet leak into your Coach can kill you the same as CO.

You can walk 10 feet into a CO2 depression and be dead. That’s why the coal miners had birds with them. The bird died and they knew to back out of that area quickly.

So a small leak could buildup over time just like CO. Not as likely but could happen.

[Jan Gerstner.]

Mattisonhome, that sounds very like two incidents we had this year, one in summer, one in November.
In June I was preparing our 2014 Forester for a short trip. Upon opening the door I heard that "chirp" which I interpreted to be from the CO detector. It is mounted at the top of our stairwell, at floor level. I sat right beside it and was certain the beep was from it, but I could not make it stop.
I called the manufacturer and gave a detailed description of the issue. Important to the CS person was which lights were on. She then said it was fine, the issue was our smoke detector, which is about 7-feet away, on the ceiling. Sure enough, that was it. Replaced the battery.

BUT, in July we had beeping again. This time clearly not the smoke alarm, but the CO detector. It had reached its life limit so I replaced it.
BUT, we then began a 6-week trip to include several days in Wilmington NC. First night in the campground we heard the CO detector beep. Definitely the CO detector.
Coach status: plugged into campground power; heat pump running, furnace off; refrigerator running. Six thousand miles and five weeks into our trip.

Wife and I threw open the door and scoured the coach for any sign of any thing. Nothing. We know CO is odorless, so we also turned on the ceiling fan.

I pushed the cancel/reset/mute button and the sound quit.
Less than an hour later, same thing. In addition to the above we did a thorough walk-around of the exterior. Nothing.
Less than an hour later, same thing. Same response from us, but decided that one more time and we'd call the fire department.
Less than an hour later, same thing, same response from us plus call to the FD, which just happened to be a quarter mile outside the campground gate.
They went over the RV with a sensitive detectors, putting them on the propane tank and fittings, in the oven, on the back of the refrigerator, under the coach, etc. Nothing. Zip. Nada. NO CO, no propane. Their sensitive detectors were mute.
However, it did not occur again after they left. Maybe they scared it into compliance. Dunno.
Then, another walkaround. We noticed there were at least six other campers who had fires. Wind was light but I could smell smoke around our coach. Mysteriously, upon arrival of the FD, most of those fires were soon out . . ..
So. Maybe. There was just enough smoke to set off CO detector, but not our smoke detector, even though we smelled no smoke. Remembering that CO by itself is odorless.
Never occurred again.
Sooo, not saying anything about YOUR ability to localize a beep, you might check your smoke detector. Keep in mind that even with a new batter, they have a life limit of ten-years max.

My call to the CO/propane detector manufacturer was my best move the first time. They accurately helped me sort it out. Might work for you.

[hilinephil]

I also found not to put stuff in front of it. Our trash can was too close to it and it kept setting off the propane alarm.