Crash testing requirements? bclemens? - Page 2

Dp26 · 11-30-2018, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

It was this post and past comments (that I haven’t located yet) from bclemens that make me believe crash testing does occur:
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...eap-88171.html

Can't speak for BC. Since there is no regulation allowing a sideways seating position and corresponding belt requirements, it is reasonable to believe any such installation is a courtesey, or maybe to meet rvia one belt per sleeping position, and is not a govt approved belt. I think the same is reasonable for any lap only belt, since I think the requirements are lap and shoulder.

While I don't often get into a class a, I can't remember any I have been in recently with a cab setup which looks like an auto (air bags, curtains, soft dash, etc.) The most recent one had a cool pull out desk shelf for the pass, which is certainly not something which could pass an auto type crash test since it was not covered with anything soft.

Maybe FR has to pay for or reimburse for cutaway testing?

**RedLdr1** · 11-30-2018, 05:18 PM

Not a FR product but

Here

is an interesting video of a Winnebago being "drop tested"...

As far as motor homes go I'm sticking with a Class C, or Class B, to have a decent cab structure...

Dp26 · 11-30-2018, 05:33 PM

Made me invest 10 minutes to look. There may well be more details if one digs deeper, or if a manuf rep adds to the conversation.

The search results are usually from "safety" groups, usually focused on child safety. I saw some references to govt or quasi govt items, but they are so long winded, I passed on wading through.

Class A, B, C seem to have to meet federal belt standards only for the front seats. (I still doubt they have to meet airbag standards, given my example of Pass dash areas in class A.) GVW over 10k seems to open some exemptions, maybe the airbag and rear seating?

I did not find anything stating a MH must be crash tested, with the implication being the safety belt for the front is materials and installation only.

Class B is likely similar to an C as far as requirements, if they weigh enough. One reference claims some manufactures to crash test on their own, but I did not look for proof.

There is an outfit in OR which makes a MH on a king cab chassis with four "factory" seats... (which would be my choice, other than truck and trailer, if we had little ones to carry).

spock123 · 12-01-2018, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windowman

Not to mention whom would be responsible to see that every kid is belted and stays belted.A nightmare at best.

I drove a school bus for a few years, started with elementary bus, bad. Then high school, really bad. Those kids like to drove me nuts, school bus top speed 35mph. You could tell who had parents at home. With seatbelts the kids would stay in there seats, on second thought no they wouldn’t. The kids were supposed to be quiet on the bus, that was a joke too. No way kids would buckle the seat belts and no way for the driver to know.

nomad297 · 12-02-2018, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dp26

or if a manuf rep adds to the conversation.

I think bclemens is very wisely refraining from posting on this topic.

Bruce

CampingGator · 12-02-2018, 07:50 AM

My comments here are based on previous research, some going back three years. We ended up getting a TT because I was not comfortable with what I found. We have grandkids who sometimes camp with us, so their safety, as well as ours, is important.

Class As are not built to automobile or truck standards. Class Cs provide safety in the cab only, because they are built on a truck chassis. The house part is not. Most are built with wood or aluminum studs and the seats are made of wood, often just stapled together. The seatbelts are usually not tied into the steel structure of the floor, if it is made of steel.

The Winnebago is built with a steel cage, which provides much more strength to the unit. You therefore cannot base a decision on another manufacturer’s product when looking at a Winnebago product.

As has already been pointed out, sitting sideways and not having a headrest will not prevent massive injuries, including neck/spine injury. The belt might or might not keep you from being ejected, but that would be about it, especially at higher speeds. We went with the TT so all passengers will be in the truck.

Oaklevel · 12-02-2018, 08:05 AM

This is a good question.............. following this.............

But I did not think that trucks were crash tested so unless the RV manufacturer voluntarily does so they probably are not ?????

**ependydad** · 12-02-2018, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomad297

I think bclemens is very wisely refraining from posting on this topic.

Bruce

Why? I’m curious about the regulations and gov’t requirements. If he doesn’t want to talk about FR’s process, I’m fine with that.

hack522 · 12-02-2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulie1138

I am liking to follow. For the same reason, why do most buses not have seatbelts either?

Buses do not have seatbelts as they have been proven to cause greater harm than good in crashes. I used to work in the Mass transit industry and asked the same question. NTSB data.

**bclemens** · 12-03-2018, 09:01 AM

lol....not sure I was refraining as much as traveling.

We follow all government guidelines. Having said that...MOST of the crash testing requirements are on passenger vehicles UNDER 10,000 lbs. I think you'll find that most things over this number are hitting something, not being hit.

So, for example, when we built the REV, which was under 10k. We had to crash test that as a complete RV. NHTSA actually came in and took pictures of the process.

Anything OVER 10k, does not need to be crash tested. However, there are a couple of things to consider when talking about a Class C.

The Sprinter, Ford E450, Ram 5500, are all based on vehicles that are under that 10k range and do get crashed tested. So the cab we use i crash tested. The M2 we use, we know gets crashed tested. In addition, all of our seatbelts must pass a federal testing standard. If we cut on the cab, we have to pull test the cab seats with our modified cab to make sure we have not modified the cab in a negative way.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

FYI, I think the school bus posting is a relevant comparison. Why would school buses not have seatbelts? Goes back to the same idea that you are hitting something, not being hit...plus you are way high up, so most of the impact is below. (unless a semi of course). But in shuttle buses and school buses, HOW the seats in front of you are constructed is regulated as an impact point. There has to be a certain type and thickness of foam. So they are assuming that the seat in front of you acts as a restraint.

All of it comes down to risk. At what point is there a diminishing return? If you have one death due to school bus impact....do you mandate that the entire industry add seatbelts? Then what happens when someone dies because there is a roll-over and the seatbelt impairs exiting?

I think in today's environment everyone is very quick to say "add this add that, no cost is to great to save one single life"...but fail to consider the domino effect that ultimately takes place.

**Iwritecode** · 12-03-2018, 09:25 AM

I haven't been on a school bus in a long time, but the last time I was, I seem to remember seeing seat belts in the first few rows, but as you went farther towards the back there weren't any.

**ependydad** · 12-03-2018, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclemens

lol....not sure I was refraining as much as traveling.

We follow all government guidelines. Having said that...MOST of the crash testing requirements are on passenger vehicles UNDER 10,000 lbs. I think you'll find that most things over this number are hitting something, not being hit.

So, for example, when we built the REV, which was under 10k. We had to crash test that as a complete RV. NHTSA actually came in and took pictures of the process.

Anything OVER 10k, does not need to be crash tested. However, there are a couple of things to consider when talking about a Class C.

The Sprinter, Ford E450, Ram 5500, are all based on vehicles that are under that 10k range and do get crashed tested. So the cab we use i crash tested. The M2 we use, we know gets crashed tested. In addition, all of our seatbelts must pass a federal testing standard. If we cut on the cab, we have to pull test the cab seats with our modified cab to make sure we have not modified the cab in a negative way.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

Thanks, Brian. It was incredibly helpful (even the bus seat belt requirements that I snipped for brevity). I appreciate it.

Do you have any details on the seat belt requirements and testing that you must pass?

**bclemens** · 12-03-2018, 10:22 AM

I don't know that I deal with the specific requirements personally, but you can search for "FMVSS Seat Belt Testing" and come up with all sorts of videos and testing requirements.

I do know in general terms, it is a 5,000 lbs pull test.

**ependydad** · 12-03-2018, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclemens

I don't know that I deal with the specific requirements personally, but you can search for "FMVSS Seat Belt Testing" and come up with all sorts of videos and testing requirements.

I do know in general terms, it is a 5,000 lbs pull test.

Thanks much, Brian. It definitely helps clear things up for me.

llr · 12-03-2018, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

I haven't been on a school bus in a long time, but the last time I was, I seem to remember seeing seat belts in the first few rows, but as you went farther towards the back there weren't any.

Many school bus regulations are at the state level. When I drove one in Ohio about 6 years ago only the driver and some special needs students had seat belts. Special need buses also had another staff member on board to keep an eye on things.

sadenis · 02-14-2019, 11:19 AM

bclemens, your information about which bases get crash tested is very helpful. I am trying to find out which models of smaller motorhomes (~24 ft) do not have a passenger airbag or one that can be disengaged. I am traveling with my son in the summer and we are going to fly and rent an RV (looking at RVShare currently) at our destination instead of towing the popup camper from Rhode Island to Colorado! We did that 2 summers ago! My son will be 12 this summer but will still weigh less than 80 lbs and will be in a lowback back booster to position the shoulder strap properly. He needs to be in the front passenger seat and not sitting in lap belt only position.

One of the ones we are looking at is the 2011 Ford E-450 Forest River Sunseeker. There are also some Itasca Navion models and a Sprinter as well as a traditional Class C Coachmen Freelander.

Do you know if the Sunseeker has an airbag on the passenger side or if we can disengage it?

Does anyone know where I would find out information about the various RVs and which ones might work for us. My son will be 12 this summer but he is on the autism spectrum and socially/emotionally quite a few years younger. He has his heart set on a RV setup for this summer's dinosaur exploration tour. I don't want to disappoint.

Kind regards,
Sarah Denis

Dp26 · 02-14-2019, 12:29 PM

My guess is you would need to find something not on a Ford chassis. The Ford chassis were designed decades ago, and I suspect none have a pass airbag switch.

BUT, depending on the layout of the "house", you will be able to slide the pass seat back a "long" way. This should make it safe for anyone to ride in front (not be too close to the bag), while still providing the protection of the bag.

The sprinter, I have no idea, but it may be a newer generation chassis, and may have the switch.

**bclemens** · 02-14-2019, 12:54 PM

When it comes to used units, its a crap shoot on what they did what for what year. I'm not even sure what our E450 has today to be frank. It rarely comes up on vehicle of this size..normally you are hitting them, not them hitting you.

sadenis · 02-14-2019, 02:05 PM

Hello bclemens and Dp26,

I will follow up with the owners of the RVs we have been looking at to see how far back the passenger seat will go. That is a super idea. At some point, the airbag won't be able to reach him or by the time it reached him, it wouldn't be inflating at full speed.

And yes, it is more likely that we are going to be the big guy in any crash situation.

Last year we replaced our 18 year old Coleman popup camper with a Rockwood Fleetwood that was only 3 years old! I tend to take road trips with the camper so I had most of the amenities inside removed so I could have straight storage instead. It's kind of like a tent and storage space on wheels! And I like to do my cooking and cleaning outdoors. And this year we will add AC.

Thank you for your help.

Sarah Denis

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