Customer issues/questions on 30FW

[bclemens]

1. The corporate PDI facility has been up and running for years. That building just takes a sample (based on volume) of each divisions units and treats them as if they are the dealer. Basically an "audit" of our QC system. We have our own system of checks here, including test drive, systems check, rain booth and our final finish building where final QC tests are done. We also have a mid-line inspector for each line. So a minimum of 4 QC people, plus the group leaders of each department that also sign off.

2. There is not an adaptor for the iPad, but you can also get the app...which I have posted here before, along with our welcome letter that also lists the app.

I will post it here as well for ease of searching.

Dynamax Online Owners Manuals

There is an app based version and also a regular web based version. As you go through the owners manual...associated PDF's will be listed up on the right hand side. For exampled...let's say you are on the section for "Leveling Jacks" on the right hand side will be various pdf's and/or videos for each of the jack systems used by Forest River Class C divisions. We are all sort of grouped together for this. That is why I did my own flash drive so that it is relevant only to the products we build.

You could very easily, copy those files into a Dropbox account and have the dropbox app on your iPad. eliminates the flash drive all together.

[vrunner]

Originally Posted by bclemens

1. The corporate PDI facility has been up and running for years. That building just takes a sample (based on volume) of each divisions units and treats them as if they are the dealer. Basically an "audit" of our QC system. We have our own system of checks here, including test drive, systems check, rain booth and our final finish building where final QC tests are done. We also have a mid-line inspector for each line. So a minimum of 4 QC people, plus the group leaders of each department that also sign off.

2. There is not an adaptor for the iPad, but you can also get the app...which I have posted here before, along with our welcome letter that also lists the app.

I will post it here as well for ease of searching.

Dynamax Online Owners Manuals

There is an app based version and also a regular web based version. As you go through the owners manual...associated PDF's will be listed up on the right hand side. For exampled...let's say you are on the section for "Leveling Jacks" on the right hand side will be various pdf's and/or videos for each of the jack systems used by Forest River Class C divisions. We are all sort of grouped together for this. That is why I did my own flash drive so that it is relevant only to the products we build.

You could very easily, copy those files into a Dropbox account and have the dropbox app on your iPad. eliminates the flash drive all together.

You need your own system. Way better to have an individual run through it soup to nuts then to take "samples" or spot check. Based on the issues I see posted on here along with my own it's time to revamp the process.

[bclemens]

As I said, we have our own process. The corporate PDI building is just and extra step to audit our own QC system.

How do autos get out with defects and recalls with all the millions they spend on QC and testing and engineers??? Because no matter how much you test..defects can and will happen. Whether it is part of what you build or maybe what a supplier builds. And NOTHING can compare to the real world. No matter how many scenarios anyone tests...someone will find a way to put a product into a scenario that no one thought of.

We continually revamp our process. If something happens in the field, we try and fix the problem and at the same time try to fix the root cause of the problem. I would put us up against any manufacturer in regards to responding to a field report (defect, etc) and how quickly we move to correct it on the production line from happening again. That is the primary reason I am on here...to short cycle the system. Not wait until we have 20 warranty claims. If we see an issue we can immediately walk on the line and see if maybe there is something consistent to it. Unfortunately, we may have shipped a dozen or so before we are even aware there is a problem. Sometimes, problems don't occur for some time and it is a supplier product that fails.

[vrunner]

I guess you would have to look at it from a percentage. How many of the 1000 plus units have issues? I assume you track that.

Regardless there is always room for improvement. Innovation and changes to product or procedure or recognizing product issues is key. As you said you and Dynamax do that well. However if the end product is flawed, rushed and sub standard all that innovation, change and updating is worthless.

Plus you are only as good as your suppliers. If they ship defective or substandard products, slapping them into units for the sake of moving forward isn't a good option either.

Again, another reason to consider a separate QC program for each coach. Better to catch it before it leaves and is in the dealer or customers hands, first impressions are everything.

Just something to consider.

[LandKKnight]

Originally Posted by vrunner

Got the same squeak... after about an hour I want to throat punch someone... it's that annoying.

Exactly what my husband says.

[ENGINEER]

Originally Posted by Shawn M.

Yes, it's on 50 amp shore power in my garage. The key does work. I'll check the contacts tonight.

And I'm just curious; this motorhome comes with 3 tv's and the satellite unit has 2 outputs, but it is only wired with one lead to the satellite. That makes no sense. It would have been really simple to bring in the second wire from the satellite during the build, now it's a major project.

Not sure you understand the satellitevTV install. The WINGARD Satellite Antenna only has one RG-6 coax interface cable that runs interior to the coach. At that interface point (RG-6 BUS or "matrix") distributes the satellite signal to one or more receivers located throughout the coach. When they say they only wire for one receiver, then all three TVs must view the same show. It would have cost a manufacturer less than $100 to wire a coach for 3 separate satellite receivers. Just doesn't make sense but it's obvious most of these OEMs know nothing of modern 2018 electronic hardware.

[Shawn M.]

Originally Posted by ENGINEER

Not sure you understand the satellitevTV install. The WINGARD Satellite Antenna only has one RG-6 coax interface cable that runs interior to the coach. At that interface point (RG-6 BUS or "matrix") distributes the satellite signal to one or more receivers located throughout the coach. When they say they only wire for one receiver, then all three TVs must view the same show. It would have cost a manufacturer less than $100 to wire a coach for 3 separate satellite receivers. Just doesn't make sense but it's obvious most of these OEMs know nothing of modern 2018 electronic hardware.

Your right, I don’t really understand it, but I’ll be an expert by the time I’m done working on this $140K starter pack I bought. I’ve been spending every free minute I have figuring out things that should have been right when I picked it up.

Do you have a link for what I need to make this happen? Any help would be appreciated.

[vrunner]

Originally Posted by LandKKnight

Exactly what my husband says.

[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji23]

[Shawn M.]

Originally Posted by bclemens

here are the files that would be listed on the flash drive. I don't think we get paper manuals of this.

If it is not lighting up at all...then that sounds like it is a bad part or it is not getting power. If you look at the hinge side of the door jamb, at the bottom, there are two metal pins that come out of the door. Those contact a metal plate on the doo jamb. That is how it gets electric. Sometimes I have seen those pins corrode, (I don't know how our supplier stores them to or how long they have them before install) or maybe it got taped off and is not making contact??? You should be able to see pretty easily if that is the issue.

A little electrical grease on that contact would be a yearly maintenance item if it were mine.

You don't have the disconnect off do you? that would also cut power. We used to use a battery operated one, but it seems those batteries failed just when you needed it most.

Key still works I assume?

I figured it out tonight. The pins on the door were misaligned with the contact plate. I had to dremel out the door jam to slide the pins over enough to make contact with the plate. Then, I still had no power, so I traced the wires under the body and found a inline 15 amp fuse, which was popped. Swapped it out and it’s working now. The pins and contact plate were rusty like you said they would be also. My neck is getting sore from shaking my head so much about this unit.

[vrunner]

Originally Posted by Shawn M.

I figured it out tonight. The pins on the door were misaligned with the contact plate. I had to dremel out the door jam to slide the pins over enough to make contact with the plate. Then, I still had no power, so I traced the wires under the body and found a inline 15 amp fuse, which was popped. Swapped it out and it’s working now. The pins and contact plate were rusty like you said they would be also. My neck is getting sore from shaking my head so much about this unit.

My head fell off a few months ago... [emoji58][emoji58][emoji58]

[Shawn M.]

Originally Posted by vrunner

My head fell off a few months ago... [emoji58][emoji58][emoji58]

I’ve done nothing more than drive mine home 1-1/2 weeks ago, and been working on it since. I’m almost scared about our first trip Memorial weekend. This is crazy......

I traded in my 12 year old Allegro Bus for something new and smaller so I wouldn’t have to spend so much time working on it.
HAHAHAHA!!!!!

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by ENGINEER

Not sure you understand the satellitevTV install. The WINGARD Satellite Antenna only has one RG-6 coax interface cable that runs interior to the coach. At that interface point (RG-6 BUS or "matrix") distributes the satellite signal to one or more receivers located throughout the coach. When they say they only wire for one receiver, then all three TVs must view the same show. It would have cost a manufacturer less than $100 to wire a coach for 3 separate satellite receivers. Just doesn't make sense but it's obvious most of these OEMs know nothing of modern 2018 electronic hardware.

You're joking right? Maybe read more of the threads here instead of just chiming in on one...that you have no clue about.

1. We use (2) coax cables from the main sat to the "receiver location" for the in-motion satellite. There are only (2) available in the first place. As I have already explained, this is a primary and a secondary. You wire the primary to the main TV and receiver and the secondary to the 2nd TV/receiver. The secondary can watch different channels as long as the channel is on the same satellite as the main TV, which controls the dish.

2. If someone were to option the stationary satellite...that one is a triple LNB and thus gets (3) coax cables...and we run them all. Although I think the DirectTV version is now using the SWM to combine them all back into one.

3. I am the OEM and I perfectly understand 2018 wiring. I wire all of my own AV equipment, including surround sound, cable and computer networking. I actually used to run the IT department for a small company I used to work for. What we don't understand is how 100% of the people are going to use the system. SO, we try to keep it simple....you know, wire it in the KISS method so that 100% of the people don't have to pay for what only 2% of the users will take advantage of. Knowing that anything can be done on an individual basis if the consumer just asks for it.

In the past 90% of he people we dealt with used only one receiver. Then we would set it up so they can distribute that signal to all of their TV's. As that has evolved, we have also evolved with it. So today, on an in-motion Sat, we wire the primary and the secondary. We wire that to one location. Because it would not be right for me to assume, which is the primary and which is the secondary receiver. While I do think you can set which receiver controls the dish...that adds another level of complexity that 90% of the people have no desire to figure out.

Soooo. We wire both coax cables to the same location. This allows you to set a primary and secondary receiver in that location. If you only have one...great, no problem. If you have two receivers, great no problem. You would need an HDMI splitter on some models...we have the splitter already in our big truck models. The receivers used to come with an RF remote..most do not, but they are still available. So then you can control the receiver with that RF remote, no matter where you are.

Now...for tomorrow, we will again, wire the receivers to one location. IN that location we will be providing a 4x4 HDMI matrix. (which anyone can actually buy themselves now to accomplish the same thing) So now, you can have DVD, OR Satellite on any TV in the COACH OR ALL the TV's in the coach. So on game day...every TV can get the same, OR, maybe the kids want to watch a DVD in the bedroom. Now they can. Or maybe the front TV, Now they can.

[bclemens]

Well, maybe you can't buy it now.
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Bla.../dp/B01GCGK74Y

that is the model we having coming in...maybe we bought them all out? I'll see if the model # has been updated.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by Shawn M.

I wasn't able to find a manual or file for the keyless entry touch pad in the link. Either I missed it, or it's not there. Any help would be appreciated. It does nothing.

And, did National RV get back to you with my other walk through issues? They still haven't got back to me.

I am told that "Jared" the head of service for National RV Detroit "has already called the customer back" and that they have registered the coach. I have all your posts already filed in the VIN notes.

Not that it is any consolation, but I moved in to my new house (built for me, electrical designs, etc laid out by me) early April and I am still working on it.

It takes some time to dial it into the very specific manner in which we use things. We all get somewhat set in our ways on what we want and what we expect. I have changed a shower head out, adjusted some drawers and cabinets, re-installed a fridge trim kit properly, change out some drawer guides, added some drawers, cut off some perfectly good counter skirt because I placed a beverage center, touched up some paint, moved a slide our shelf in a cabinet, have a dishwasher that has not worked since day one. I understand that the builder did not spec that dishwasher so I am working with Whirlpool/Kitcheaid. Brand new, tests out just fine, nothing wrong with it...won't complete a cycle. So they had to order a new brain because it just starts a wash and goes into "drain". Part did not come in when it was supposed to last Tuesday, by time it did come in, my appointment was slated for today. And slowly but surely I am trying to set up all of my AV equipment and reprogram remotes to work the way I want them to work. Lots of work to start...but once it is done, I shouldn't have to go back and work on anything again.

[Shawn M.]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I am told that "Jared" the head of service for National RV Detroit "has already called the customer back" and that they have registered the coach. I have all your posts already filed in the VIN notes.

I made my salesman aware of the leaning issue on Wednesday 5/9/18. On Friday 5/11/18, Jared called and told me it's a chassis issue and to take it to a Dodge dealer. I called all the Dodge dealers in my area and they all said it is to large for them to handle. I called Jared back the same day, and he said it was getting late and he would find a dealer for me to take it to on Monday 5/14/18. On that Monday, I sent my salesman an email to stay on Jared to make sure he gets this done, because we are leaving Thursday 5/24/18 AM for a long holiday weekend with this unit and I want it to be right. No one had contacted me since, until just about a hour ago. You must have gotten their attention. It was my salesman telling me that they will contact me back today with some answers. I'll keep you posted.

[bclemens]

Well, the 36DS was supposed to be D/S heavy and so we added a shim. It ended up only being about 500-600 originally (today we're less than 100 lbs difference) and the shim then made it lean to the right when people loaded it up. So we pulled it off. I think engineering was a little gun shy as a result on the 30FW and wanted to wait and see if there is any issue once loaded (since most of the cargo is on the P/S). Maybe I'll add the 1" shim to my demo to test it out.

[Shawn M.]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Well, the 36DS was supposed to be D/S heavy and so we added a shim. It ended up only being about 500-600 originally (today we're less than 100 lbs difference) and the shim then made it lean to the right when people loaded it up. So we pulled it off. I think engineering was a little gun shy as a result on the 30FW and wanted to wait and see if there is any issue once loaded (since most of the cargo is on the P/S). Maybe I'll add the 1" shim to my demo to test it out.

That's what it needs. It's sitting on the helper spring on the driver's side, and there is a 3/4" gap at the passenger's side helper spring.

[vrunner]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I am told that "Jared" the head of service for National RV Detroit "has already called the customer back" and that they have registered the coach. I have all your posts already filed in the VIN notes.



Not that it is any consolation, but I moved in to my new house (built for me, electrical designs, etc laid out by me) early April and I am still working on it.



It takes some time to dial it into the very specific manner in which we use things. We all get somewhat set in our ways on what we want and what we expect. I have changed a shower head out, adjusted some drawers and cabinets, re-installed a fridge trim kit properly, change out some drawer guides, added some drawers, cut off some perfectly good counter skirt because I placed a beverage center, touched up some paint, moved a slide our shelf in a cabinet, have a dishwasher that has not worked since day one. I understand that the builder did not spec that dishwasher so I am working with Whirlpool/Kitcheaid. Brand new, tests out just fine, nothing wrong with it...won't complete a cycle. So they had to order a new brain because it just starts a wash and goes into "drain". Part did not come in when it was supposed to last Tuesday, by time it did come in, my appointment was slated for today. And slowly but surely I am trying to set up all of my AV equipment and reprogram remotes to work the way I want them to work. Lots of work to start...but once it is done, I shouldn't have to go back and work on anything again.

The items you reference are minor in comparison to the OP's issue. To draw a similar comparison let's say your homes foundation was tilted/sagged or subfloor had a crowned joist... that would be the same as the RV leaning. Both are likely correctable but none the less a major concern in both instances. In a built home the builder would assume responsibility even though it was the framer or concrete sub that caused the problem. More so if discovered during your walk through of the home, money would be placed in escrow to ensure it is fixed properly and to your satisfaction... no such luck with the RV... and It isn't as simple as taking the coach to a "dealer". I have experienced first hand how poorly that works.

[bclemens]

I was not referring to the lean in that post...I was referring to some other things on delivery and the AV side of things.

I addressed the lean in a separate post.

[caseymyers]

Originally Posted by bclemens

You're joking right? Maybe read more of the threads here instead of just chiming in on one...that you have no clue about.

1. We use (2) coax cables from the main sat to the "receiver location" for the in-motion satellite. There are only (2) available in the first place. As I have already explained, this is a primary and a secondary. You wire the primary to the main TV and receiver and the secondary to the 2nd TV/receiver. The secondary can watch different channels as long as the channel is on the same satellite as the main TV, which controls the dish.

2. If someone were to option the stationary satellite...that one is a triple LNB and thus gets (3) coax cables...and we run them all. Although I think the DirectTV version is now using the SWM to combine them all back into one.

3. I am the OEM and I perfectly understand 2018 wiring. I wire all of my own AV equipment, including surround sound, cable and computer networking. I actually used to run the IT department for a small company I used to work for. What we don't understand is how 100% of the people are going to use the system. SO, we try to keep it simple....you know, wire it in the KISS method so that 100% of the people don't have to pay for what only 2% of the users will take advantage of. Knowing that anything can be done on an individual basis if the consumer just asks for it.

In the past 90% of he people we dealt with used only one receiver. Then we would set it up so they can distribute that signal to all of their TV's. As that has evolved, we have also evolved with it. So today, on an in-motion Sat, we wire the primary and the secondary. We wire that to one location. Because it would not be right for me to assume, which is the primary and which is the secondary receiver. While I do think you can set which receiver controls the dish...that adds another level of complexity that 90% of the people have no desire to figure out.

Soooo. We wire both coax cables to the same location. This allows you to set a primary and secondary receiver in that location. If you only have one...great, no problem. If you have two receivers, great no problem. You would need an HDMI splitter on some models...we have the splitter already in our big truck models. The receivers used to come with an RF remote..most do not, but they are still available. So then you can control the receiver with that RF remote, no matter where you are.

Now...for tomorrow, we will again, wire the receivers to one location. IN that location we will be providing a 4x4 HDMI matrix. (which anyone can actually buy themselves now to accomplish the same thing) So now, you can have DVD, OR Satellite on any TV in the COACH OR ALL the TV's in the coach. So on game day...every TV can get the same, OR, maybe the kids want to watch a DVD in the bedroom. Now they can. Or maybe the front TV, Now they can.

Are the Isata 5's getting that 4x4 Matrix?