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Old 05-17-2018, 01:45 PM   #1
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Customer issues/questions on 30FW

I recently had a customer that was unhappy with the delivery experience on their 30FW Isata 5. The back and forth went private, but I asked if it could be made public because I thought others could read and learn from the questions and answers.

Also, when I hear very strong language in regards to how bad someone thought it was, I want to know what it was so that I can take corrective action. I also want potential buyers to not be "left hanging" letting their mind wander about all the bad things that could have gone wrong. Maybe they are some things they can live with and maybe they aren't. I feel like transparency is the best policy.

I will not edit any of the text, other than to remove any personal information.

Customer:
Issues dealer was aware of at walk through;
1. Matrix for satellite missing
2. Sofa bed extension legs are wrong (too short)
3. Remote for outside entertainment didn't work.
4. lean.

The above items were immediately supposed to be ordered and shipped out to me. Haven't heard or seen anything, so I don't know if the satellite system works or has any issues yet.

Issues I found that they aren't aware of;
1. Keyless entry doesn't work. No lights, nothing.
2. Annoying squeak in driver area. I think it's coming from between the cab and coach body above driver's seat, but I was driving alone and couldn't investigate. We'll check into it during the next trip.
3. Luke warm water temp. I finally figured it out last night. There is a mixing valve (or bypass) for hot and cold behind the water heater that was open allowing the cold to mix with the hot. I wasn't given a manual for it, so I spent a lot of time figuring that out.
4. Missing manuals. So far I know of;
1. keyless entry
2. electric awning
3. water heater
4. satellite system
5. This new toilet drop pipe/tank issue. Not saying it's an issue yet, but it sure looks like it will be.

I'm not going to go into detail about missing, loose or stripped fasteners, loose and hanging wires, ect.

Response:
just a heads up....the Matrix is not available yet and not a listed standard on the Isata 5 series at this time. It is something that we are working on, but do not have it finalized.

Did you get a flash drive of the manuals? We only include hard copy of the manual if we get them from the vendor, otherwise they are on the flash drive that we ship with every unit.

they are also available via the Forest River App. Dynamax Online Owners Manuals

Customer:
Thanks for the link. Again, my walk through was sub par to say the least. I wasn't aware of a flash drive. I was told all manuals were in the black bag.

My build sheet says I have a matrix. How's that? So, do I have to put 3 receivers above the microwave and walk to that cabinet to change channels on each tv?

This is what I'm talking about. No explanation on how this stuff is supposed to work. I'm in the dark.

Response:
Can you post a picture of the build sheet? I'm looking at ours and it just says "Winegard in-motion satellite"...Ah, nevermind It might be the "Factory Installed Appliances and Accessories". That is a standardized sheet we put in all units to recorder the serial numbers of your appliances. If you look at the 4x4 Matrix, the manufacturer is blank. We haven't started receiving them yet.

As for operation of the satellite...it depends on what you are trying to do. We do not wire it for 3 receivers we wire it for one. Most receivers can be purchased with an RF remote (instead of IR) so it can work from any room.

Customer:
Adding to my confusion now......
There are 3 HDMI cables in the cabinet above the microwave. The tech at National said there is one for each TV. Is this not the case? And how do I get satellite to all 3 TV's?

Response:
You would need to purchase an HDMI splitter or a Matrix. There is no way for us to really accommodate every possible installation scenario. However, we are aware of the issue and that is why we have been adding more and more components to try and accommodate most scenarios. The last piece to the puzzle is a matrix, that we think will solve 99% of most installs. It just takes a little time to relocate components, cables and get equipment in.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:52 PM   #2
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As a side note. We understand that the dealer walk though can sometimes be less than adequate. Sometimes, it is the fault of the dealer and sometimes, it is just trying to cram the knowledge of an automobile, house, generator, home automation device, supply and drainage system, into a 1-2 hour presentation. As such we have started creating videos and adding data to our owners manuals. A few of the videos are out. We will place as many as we can on the flash drive with the manuals....but also, each of you should be getting a letter like the one below (This is the latest version so the ones prior might be a little different). This we print, so that you know about all the stuff that might NOT be printed.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf _Dynamax Welcome Letter.pdf (195.4 KB, 109 views)
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:00 PM   #3
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I want to also say: Thank-you for your, being here on this forum
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:28 PM   #4
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What was the resolution of the squeak in the cab? My parents 30fw that they picked up last week also has a squeak in the cab that we haven't been able too track down yet.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:35 PM   #5
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None at this time. I have asked my test drivers to start looking for it (or listening I should say).

I think someone else posted on here a while back. It is likely the styrofoam insulation that sits in the cab over bunk. As the bunk flexes...the foam can rub on the plywood and/or aluminum framing.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:36 PM   #6
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Got the same squeak... after about an hour I want to throat punch someone... it's that annoying.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:56 PM   #7
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My walk-thru at the dealer was pretty poor, no fault of Dynamax. One thing that would help many of us "do it yourself" owners is to have a build sheet of the vehicle to list every "product" included/installed. My black folder had about 50% of what I expected and no Dodge manuals at all. A build sheet would show which model awning, refrig, stove, generator etc. I had to crawl under the RV to see which Onan I had. The black folder had a CD from Onan, but it was generic and not model specific. I'd prefer to do the small things rather than go back to the dealer. Even though Brian does an excellent job, he would receive fewer questions if we knew the make/model of the components of the RV.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:31 AM   #8
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I wasn't able to find a manual or file for the keyless entry touch pad in the link. Either I missed it, or it's not there. Any help would be appreciated. It does nothing.

And, did National RV get back to you with my other walk through issues? They still haven't got back to me.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:39 AM   #9
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here are the files that would be listed on the flash drive. I don't think we get paper manuals of this.

If it is not lighting up at all...then that sounds like it is a bad part or it is not getting power. If you look at the hinge side of the door jamb, at the bottom, there are two metal pins that come out of the door. Those contact a metal plate on the doo jamb. That is how it gets electric. Sometimes I have seen those pins corrode, (I don't know how our supplier stores them to or how long they have them before install) or maybe it got taped off and is not making contact??? You should be able to see pretty easily if that is the issue.

A little electrical grease on that contact would be a yearly maintenance item if it were mine.

You don't have the disconnect off do you? that would also cut power. We used to use a battery operated one, but it seems those batteries failed just when you needed it most.

Key still works I assume?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Entry Door Keyless Entry HD008-HW-Instruction.pdf (1.44 MB, 48 views)
File Type: pdf Entry Door Keypad HDC008.pdf (3.10 MB, 53 views)
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:56 AM   #10
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Yes, it's on 50 amp shore power in my garage. The key does work. I'll check the contacts tonight.

And I'm just curious; this motorhome comes with 3 tv's and the satellite unit has 2 outputs, but it is only wired with one lead to the satellite. That makes no sense. It would have been really simple to bring in the second wire from the satellite during the build, now it's a major project.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:16 AM   #11
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As far as I know we have been sending both wires from the satellite. One Marked "M" for main and one marked "2" for secondary. They both get routed to the spot above the micro or fridge based on floor plan.

Just so you are aware, as most people don't know this, the secondary can only watch channels that are on the same satellite as the Main. This is only a single tuner, single LNB dish and can only see one sat at a time.

The bulk of our users only use one satellite and it seems the 2nd coax create more confusion that it solves...but, squeaky wheel gets the grease so we started running both coach cables almost a year ago.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:30 AM   #12
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Wow......another disappointment. In my 3 previous RV's, my wife could watch her shows on one, and I could watch something worth watching on the other. I wonder who's gonna win this battle? Thanks for that......
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:43 AM   #13
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I don't make the satellite...we just install it. There are only two types that I know of.

In-Motion (winegard or king dome). We clearly list the model of the satellite on the order form so there is no confusion. Both of these can only see one satellite at a time and they are by far and away the most common satellites installed. It can do Dish or DirecTV.

Then there is a stationary...meaning you can't watch TV while in motion. That is a triple LNB, we do offer that as an option on the trucks. It's also about double the cost. We install maybe 5 out of 100 coaches. It can see all (3) satellites. It is specific to Dish or DirecTV, it can't do both.

On the Winegard you have, you can watch shows that you want to watch, using the secondary coax to a 2nd receiver...they just have to be on the same satellite as the shows your wife is watching.

Winegard RV Antennas: Satellite, HDTV, WiFi & 4G LTE
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:50 AM   #14
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A note on the "squeak in the cab", I had the same when I picked up my Forester from the dealer after delivery. I was so bad that I did not take it home, I left it there and they fixed it next day.
Solution: when they do the cutout to the cab over there are some metal parts which should have been bent back. Dealer took the trim off from the overhead bed and bent the metal - squeaks gone! Took about an hour to investigate (driving in circles on the dealers lot) and an hour for repair, no parts needed!
Hope that helps
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn M. View Post
Wow......another disappointment. In my 3 previous RV's, my wife could watch her shows on one, and I could watch something worth watching on the other. I wonder who's gonna win this battle? Thanks for that......
Shawn, note that he said you must watch channels on the same satellite, not necessarily the same show as your wife. There are typically many channels on each satellite.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:02 AM   #16
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Customer issues/questions on 30FW

From the perspective of someone who has major problems with his coach... I do not think anyone purposefully does a bad job. Some do better then others, some do the bare minimum and then there is everything in between. At the end of the day it's about production, more units, less labor, sprinkle in improvements in efficiency, that equals more profits... or so it says on paper. However there has to be accountability.

Dynamax's biggest problem, along with the RV industry as a whole is everyone operates in silos... they don't like to get too involved with the dealer, the dealers don't feel they are properly supported from Dynamax... everyone retreats to their corners and ultimately the customer pays the price. Lots of good intentions, little to no action.

The million dollar question is how to improve it? If it were my company I would add better QC. There is no excuse for units leaving the factory the way they do.

I would hire knowledgeable people familiar with RV's that would be responsible for putting them though their paces, drive it, set it up outside, full hook ups, water, fit and finish, everything... and have the ability to make small repairs on the fly. I would say that would take about 4 hours per unit. Not sure on the time spent currently on QC but quick math figuring on output of 4-5 units a day would mean you need 3-4 full time qualified QC mechanics.

They would use a check list to go through the coach, a copy of that list would be fixed to a window in the coach. It would have their name and date unit was checked.

I would then give incentives to the line. X amount of units with little to no issues over a given period would mean xxx dollars each in their checks or maybe lunch on me.

I would then give incentives to the delivery drivers. Any issues found during delivery, driveline, squeaks and rattles, etc... they would have their check list, name and list of any possible concerns given to the dealer upon delivery.

The cost for all of this would be added to the unit. Again if you figure 1000 units a year, add 500.00 each. That is 500k to use for better quality control... plus you would see a pick up in lower claim payments to dealers, happier dealers and the ultimate goal, happy satisfied customers. I know I would have gladly spent an extra 500.00 if it would have prevented the issues I currently am dealing with.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
I don't make the satellite...we just install it. There are only two types that I know of.

In-Motion (winegard or king dome). We clearly list the model of the satellite on the order form so there is no confusion. Both of these can only see one satellite at a time and they are by far and away the most common satellites installed. It can do Dish or DirecTV.

Then there is a stationary...meaning you can't watch TV while in motion. That is a triple LNB, we do offer that as an option on the trucks. It's also about double the cost. We install maybe 5 out of 100 coaches. It can see all (3) satellites. It is specific to Dish or DirecTV, it can't do both.

On the Winegard you have, you can watch shows that you want to watch, using the secondary coax to a 2nd receiver...they just have to be on the same satellite as the shows your wife is watching.

Winegard RV Antennas: Satellite, HDTV, WiFi & 4G LTE
Sorry, my bad. I thought you meant all tv's have to watch the same channel.

Are all 3 tv's wired to the regular antenna, or just the main? In case we can pick up local channels.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:29 AM   #18
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All 3 have coax for local.

What (3) coaches have you owned prior? that will give me a little better understanding of what to cover.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
All 3 have coax for local.

What (3) coaches have you owned prior? that will give me a little better understanding of what to cover.
Started with a 26' travel trailer.
1st was a 1999 Four Winns Chateau 29'
2nd was a 2003 Damon Ultrasport 38' JUNK!!
3rd was a 2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40'

Our kids are grown, so we down sized.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:09 PM   #20
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Regarding Brian’s original post and Vrunner’s response; when I ordered my 30FW at the Tampa show sales personnel were bragging about a new PDI building at their Elkhart factory. I flew up in February to tour the factory and I was impressed with the facility but was not shown the PDI area. Is that end product QC operation not yet operational ??!
Also is there an adapter available to load the flash drive to an iPad ?
I am looking forward to being a “proud 30FW owner”, here’s hoping you get the new model production woes solved soon. 😎
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