Driving/handling/ride quality - Super C vs Diesel Pusher

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Originally Posted by halla

Its all personal preference, drive both and you will know. We didnt like the pushers felt like a boat floating down the road, the super c is like driving my pickup truck. We are all different so take your time and you will make the right decision.

Thank you! Good advice

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Originally Posted by formerFR

unlike a diesel pusher platform, the super c ultimately cannot give you the same floorplan sqft since it's front end is part of the 'length' of the coach, not to exceed the 45' limit.... or it retracts from usable floor space versus the same length diesel pusher...

if you like accessibility to the engine, such as easily 'seeing' everything and having them at your fingertips, and the additional 'pulling' capacity of a super C, then you might be willing to give up a little usable floor space...

otherwise, a diesel pusher gets great fuel mileage, especially on the smaller 'compact' varieties like the Legacy, Palazzo, PaceArrow, and other similar models... mostly those on the Freightliner XCS chassis, and in the 300-340hp range Cummins isb6.7L... and gives more usable sq footage versus the super C... I especially like the mid-door of the smaller diesel coaches.

I've transported both types from the factories, and certainly prefer the smoother ride of the diesel pusher platform, as the super C tends to be more 'heavy' feeling and a somewhat stiffer overall ride..though some come with air ride for the driver seat, and certainly more 'loud' since the engine is right there in front of you - with a pusher you really have little noise associated with the engine - conversations and music are easy.

Thank you! I also like the mid-door layout of the smaller DPs, especially since we will be using the bunk over the driver/passenger seats regularly. I do wish the mid-doors had the 360HP/800TQ/Allison 3000 combo for a bit more power and towing capability. Unfortunately, I think you need to go to the front door floorplans to get the 360HP/800TQ/Allison 3000 combo.

The images below show four floorplans that are all around 36' long (Force 34KD and Isata 5 36DS and Berkshire 34QS and Legacy 34A). While similar layouts, there are some interesting pros/cons in these different options. The $150-160k price point of the Legacy and Isata 5 is definitely more appealing than the $210-220k price point of the Berkshire and Force HD.

Looking forward to driving them to get a better feel.

[RV Randy]

Originally Posted by formerFR

unlike a diesel pusher platform, the super c ultimately cannot give you the same floorplan sqft since it's front end is part of the 'length' of the coach, not to exceed the 45' limit.... or it retracts from usable floor space versus the same length diesel pusher...

if you like accessibility to the engine, such as easily 'seeing' everything and having them at your fingertips, and the additional 'pulling' capacity of a super C, then you might be willing to give up a little usable floor space...

otherwise, a diesel pusher gets great fuel mileage, especially on the smaller 'compact' varieties like the Legacy, Palazzo, PaceArrow, and other similar models... mostly those on the Freightliner XCS chassis, and in the 300-340hp range Cummins isb6.7L... and gives more usable sq footage versus the super C... I especially like the mid-door of the smaller diesel coaches.

I've transported both types from the factories, and certainly prefer the smoother ride of the diesel pusher platform, as the super C tends to be more 'heavy' feeling and a somewhat stiffer overall ride..though some come with air ride for the driver seat, and certainly more 'loud' since the engine is right there in front of you - with a pusher you really have little noise associated with the engine - conversations and music are easy.

Some of this is repetitious but my .02. I had a Palazzo 33.3 A and it was a great MH for the price point it was at. But I eventually moved to a DX3 for the following reasons because I tow a 28' race car trailer. The A was "adequate" for towing power and braking was less adequate, even with properly functioning trailer brake and the VGT exhaust brake. If all you plan to tow is a 4 down toad then it will do just fine. Much more than that and you are exceeding the chassis capacity. The DX3 has larger brakes, a real Jake brake and the tail overhang makes the trailer track almost exactly within the chassis track. Safety was a factor for me in the event you get hit in the front end, plus the engine is much easier to access if you do your own service.

Engine noise is a little less on the A, but with the noise proofing in the Dynamax rigs (other than idling, which I like) the only time I really hear the motor is when the clutch fan kicks on. Handling is subjective but I think the DX3 corners better and tracks better, especially when towing. As a result, it has a stiffer ride (less "floaty") but that is smoothed out by the air suspension seat. Front windshield visibility is still great but not as big as the panoramic view with the A, but going into the sun there were times the roll down sunshade on the A windshield was barely adequate.

The M2 chassis' have a ton more ground clearance. The DX3 is not a true off-road rig but we do drive on barely maintained dirt/gravel roads to get to some of the off-road places we take the Jeep/RZR. With the A you had to creep along and dodge every pot hole or significant bump or you could bottom out, I even damaged the generator exhaust pipe that sticks out the drivers side by the front wheel.

In summary, I think a lot depends on how you intend to use the rig. The DX3 is definitely heavy duty and feels like it. The A in this comparison, much less so. But if you are never going off pavement, not towing heavy, always pay someone else to do all service, and you like the ride & handling of the A then they are good choices. The Palazzo also costs significantly less than the DX3. If you move up to the pricier A's then its not a factor.

As many have said, you really need to drive both to compare the ride & handling to see which you prefer. Just make sure the air pressure is set correctly in the tires. Otherwise you will think the C ride is much harsher than the A.

[formerFR]

yes, agreed.... two different platform for essentially two different 'styles' of usage

one is more for travel, and more like a touring SUV

one is more for towing, and more like a nice Semi-truck

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Originally Posted by RV Randy

Safety was a factor for me in the event you get hit in the front end, plus the engine is much easier to access if you do your own service.

The safety is one of the factors we like about the Super C.

Originally Posted by RV Randy

Engine noise is a little less on the A, but with the noise proofing in the Dynamax rigs (other than idling, which I like) the only time I really hear the motor is when the clutch fan kicks on. Handling is subjective but I think the DX3 corners better and tracks better, especially when towing. As a result, it has a stiffer ride (less "floaty") but that is smoothed out by the air suspension seat. Front windshield visibility is still great but not as big as the panoramic view with the A, but going into the sun there were times the roll down sunshade on the A windshield was barely adequate.

Glad to hear this. Cabin noise is one of our biggest concerns about the Super C vs DP, and we have been assuming we are going to have better handling at the cost of more cabin noise, but curious to see the extent of each when driving them.

Originally Posted by RV Randy

The M2 chassis' have a ton more ground clearance. The DX3 is not a true off-road rig but we do drive on barely maintained dirt/gravel roads to get to some of the off-road places we take the Jeep/RZR. With the A you had to creep along and dodge every pot hole or significant bump or you could bottom out, I even damaged the generator exhaust pipe that sticks out the drivers side by the front wheel.

This will be significant for us. We do/will travel on barely maintained dirt/gravel roads a decent amount.

Thank you for your thorough response and insight. We really appreciate being able to learn from the experience of others

[Orangecrush]

Originally Posted by random_james

So, we're still trying to narrow down whether we want to go with the Dynamax Force 37BH, or the Berkshire 38A. A major deciding factor is going to be the difference in driving, handling, and ride quality. Can anyone who has driven both a DP Class A and a Super C (preferably the Force) comment on the driving/ride comfort comparison (especially for long drives - 5-6 hours or more), driver fatigue, and handling characteristics?

Also, I can't for the life of me find the degree of wheel cut on the Force - anyone know what that is?

We sold our Newmar 43' diesel pusher and bought the DX3. (it's 41') While the interior is much smaller (not just the 2' overall length), I would never go back to a diesel pusher. The convenience and driving ability of the DX3 puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

Mark

[letsgorving]

We had a 40" Tiffin DP beautiful coach, but as many mentioned, these things "float" around down the highway and get pushed around by semis. I did not like riding in it and could not drive it. I can and do drive the DX3, it is solid on the road and does not get pushed around by the semis. Yes, we have less living room, but its plenty and we don't live in it full time anyway. Told my husband, will never go back to a class A

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Originally Posted by Orangecrush

We sold our Newmar 43' diesel pusher and bought the DX3. (it's 41') While the interior is much smaller (not just the 2' overall length), I would never go back to a diesel pusher. The convenience and driving ability of the DX3 puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

Mark

Originally Posted by letsgorving

We had a 40" Tiffin DP beautiful coach, but as many mentioned, these things "float" around down the highway and get pushed around by semis. I did not like riding in it and could not drive it. I can and do drive the DX3, it is solid on the road and does not get pushed around by the semis. Yes, we have less living room, but its plenty and we don't live in it full time anyway. Told my husband, will never go back to a class A

Thank you very much for sharing your experience and perspective!

[DieselDrax]

Great thread, though we're a ways off before all the kids are out of the house and I'm retired, my wife and I have pretty much agreed that we'll be getting a motorhome and potentially full-time with it, at the very least have the option/ability to escape the cold winters if we want.

We had a class A DP before, noticed the same complaints (and various "fixes") regarding the wandering, poor engine access (It was a side radiator so not as bad as some), etc. I'd been thinking Super C instead of another A but was worried about ride/noise. Definitely seems like a Super C would be the best choice for us in the future.

[Fredski007]

We have owned a 2001 endeavor for two years, a 2006 allegro bus for 13 years and now the 2018 DX3 for about 8 months, spent tons of money on the class A units on engine service and repairs on side mount radiators, this TRUCK is the best by far. Just changed over to synthetic oil myself and was a pleasure to work under compared to the other units.

[Harvard]

FWIW


POPULAR MECHANICS MAY 1973:
START QUOTE:
If too little caster exists, the car will wander and weave,
thus necessitating constant corrections in steering.
END QUOTE: