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Old 01-27-2018, 11:45 PM   #1
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Engine died and won't start back up

Just made it home from the dealership. Was backing into position at the bottom of the driveway, and while in reverse the engine died...literally 3 feet from where we were trying to position it. Chassis and house batteries are fully charged, everything electrical seems to work (was able to deploy the jacks, the slides, etc...I realize that's all off the house batteries). The engine will crank fine; it just won't fire up (even tried with the battery boost switch). Gauge cluster works, radio works...it's strange.

Seems like a safety switch of some sort was triggered or maybe a fuse blew...I'll check them all in the morning. The piece of angled aluminum that creates a bracket to hold down the chassis and house batteries broke on the drive home (noticed it when we stopped about 2 - 3 hours before we got here), and all the batteries shifted around in the bay. All of the terminals appear to still be tight, and there doesn't appear to be any disconnected cables, but I'll double check all of them in the morning too. It could be that a ground cable got disconnected somewhere, but I would have thought that would kill most everything electrical on the chassis side.

Any ideas or thoughts of what to look for? We drove about 500 miles home tonight...just really thankful this happened in the driveway

Edit - this is a DX3.

Thanks in advance.

JT
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:02 AM   #2
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If it's a diesel you could have a fuel problem. I just had my DuraMax in last summer for a not start problem and found a leaking injector fuel line. For some reason it triggered something to shut it down.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:12 AM   #3
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Low oil shut-off?

My constant worry: putting gas in a diesel.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:35 AM   #4
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The M2 chassis usually display a fault or error code on the center display. We had one for air in the fuel lines after an oil change and once when we ran the one saddle tank too low, that cut the engine off completely (with no error code). The gas gauges are not accurate.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:40 AM   #5
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Oil level is fine and definitely didn't put gas in it.

All the electrical connections and fuses seem good to go. I don't have an ODB code reader or gauge of any sort, but the basic visual/audible diagnostics report code 4691. Google results show the following:

“Engine Injector Metering Rail 1 Cranking Pressure Data Valid But Below Normal Operating Range - Moderately Severe Level” Cummins code 4691.

When you turn the key to the 'ON' position you can hear the fuel gurgling in or around the driver's side tank. It seems that the pump won't prime, and that it lost prime/pressure last night when backing it into position. No visible fuel leaks around the fuel rail, injectors or tank.

On dash the Malfunction Indicator Light (amber) never goes off when you first turn the key to the 'ON' position. Under normal conditions, it seemed like this light stayed on for 30 - 45 seconds, and we were told to wait for it to go off before trying to crank it. The manuals suggest that the presence of this solid light indicates an emissions problem, but I'm guessing that implies when the light comes on/stays on while operating the rig.

Everything points to fuel...I'm going to call Freightliner next.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halla View Post
The M2 chassis usually display a fault or error code on the center display. We had one for air in the fuel lines after an oil change and once when we ran the one saddle tank too low, that cut the engine off completely (with no error code). The gas gauges are not accurate.
When I turn the key to 'ON' the only fault I'm seeing on the display is 'Low Air'...the same one you see until the primary and secondary air tanks can pressurize after the engine is running. I'll check again, but it didn't seem like anything changed when I pressed the dash button to toggle through the indicator screens.

I had read your guys' posts about the inaccuracy of the gauges, so I was somewhat prepared for that. We made the last stop last night about 2 - 3 hours from the house, and the gauge was reading 1/4. Based on the recommendations here, I filled it at the truck pumps, started/filled the passenger side first, and finished on the driver's side tank. It only held 46 gallons total, and that's with me letting the foam settle and packing it in.

Air in the lines definitely seems like a possibility, though. What was the 'fix' the time the tank was run too low and this problem presented for you with no error codes?

Thanks!
JT
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:50 AM   #7
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Both issues, air in the lines and running out of fuel led me to turning over the truck multiple times until the air was pushed through the lines. It took a while to finally turn over, also ran rough for the first 15 minutes after starting. This is how our local Freightliner dealer had me correct the issue. I am not sure if that is the proper way to do it or not, just went by what they told me.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:56 AM   #8
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This is from an older unit, but I am guessing it hasnt changed much. This may help.

https://www.justanswer.com/heavy-equ...ess-class.html
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:24 PM   #9
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I can see fuel in both tanks, and they appear to be around half way full...kind of hard to tell. I added 5 gallons to the driver's side tank just to be sure, though. I've gone through the process of turning the key to the 'ON' position and not trying to start it several times to try to make sure the pump is primed. It still just turns over and refuses to fire.

I've also tried to just start it normally several more times as was suggested. No luck. I don't know how many times is too much for the starter, and I certainly don't want to burn it up. I'll let it adequately cool off and try it a couple more times a little later.

I crawled under the coach and followed all the feed and return fuel lines from the tanks, to the tee, and from the tee to the filter/water separator, and from the filter to the fuel rail. There doesn't appear to be any leaks anywhere...even watched/held them as the pump was priming. It's pretty heavy fuel hose, but I think I can feel fuel running through them...could just be vibration from the pump, though.

I called Freightliner, and they asked a couple of cursory questions making sure there was fuel in the tanks and that the dash cluster had power and was operating normally. They really wouldn't perform any over the phone diagnostics. They told me to have the coach towed in for them to look at it. He did suggest that I wait and try to talk to a Cummins tech in the morning first, though, so I'll definitely do that.

I just can't help but feeling like there's something simple I'm overlooking. I'll be happy to get it fixed (obviously), but I have a bad feeling that I'll end up getting it towed tomorrow just to find out there was a blown fuse, lose connection, operator error issue, or safety switch that I overlooked.
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Old 01-28-2018, 12:40 PM   #10
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Hopefully, it will be one of those simply things that wakes you up 3am and the problem is solved while still wearing your pajamas.

My advice, give your brain a rest, something will pop into it.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:04 PM   #11
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Mookieblaylock: go over to this site and post there.

Cummins Engines - iRV2 Forums

There is a cummins section there.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:37 PM   #12
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If there was an air in a line it could of put air in the filter. The filter would need to be primed to remove the air from it. I had jiffy lube change my filter once and they forgot the O ring. It drove all day because fuel was pushing the air out of it while it was running. When it was shut down for the night it lost its prime and didn't start. GM towed it in and replaced the filter. End of the problem.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:38 PM   #13
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Another simple test to see if it is a fuel issue: Get a spray can of ether. With these new engines they use a grid heater in the intake for cold starting, so you don't want to spray ether in while the little "glow Plug icon or wait to start lights are lit". Once they go out, while someone starts cranking the engine, spray a couple of quick squirts in to the air intake. If the engine fires a few times, even if it doesn't fully start, then you have a fuel issue. It could be a fuel pump gone bad, low fuel level, water or air in the fuel, or (unlikely) a problem with the ECM that controls the fuel injectors, pressure, etc. Seems suspicious as a fuel level issue since you said it died as you were backing down (or up) an incline into its parking space. That could have allowed you to suck air into the system.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:45 PM   #14
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Thanks for the suggestion! I just created an account over there and posted about the issue.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:50 PM   #15
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Did you have equal performance before and after the fill up? Though it is pretty rare, you may have gotten water into the tanks on the last fuel stop. It may have started and run because of the fuel initially in the line. The sloshing while driving may have mixed water and fuel enough for it to run. When you shut it off, the water settled to the bottom and that is what would be pumped to the injectors. Just another possibility.

As for the gurgling, the fuel rail has a pressure switch and a return line to the fuel tank. Fuel not used by the injectors is returned to the fuel tank. That may be what you are hearing.

I had a similar situation on a gas engine. On the first attempt to start, it would not-just tuned over. By removing the air cleaner and pouring in a little fuel, it would start and run for the day. The following day, same thing. Until one day, the fuel pump gave up. After the 6th fuel pump, the mechanic threw in the towel even though I suggested a faulty valve in the fuel rail. Long story short, it turned out that the valve on the fuel rail was malfunctioning, causing too much pressure on the pump. Then the fuel pump failed was just pumping out the bypass valve on the fuel pump, which may also be what you are hearing.
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Old 01-28-2018, 01:55 PM   #16
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We certainly were on a slope when backing down the driveway, but, with the amount of fuel that appears to be in the tanks, it's hard to imagine that all the fuel moved to the back of the tanks and left the supply fittings exposed to suck in air. I'm not ruling it out, though. I know when I change the fuel filter and water separator on my Dodge Cummins (6.7) it acts just like this until the fuel system if fully primed.

Assuming it sucked in air when backing down the drive, what would need to be done to re-prime the filter as suggested above? The filter/water separator is full of fuel right now (it's a clear bowl), but it does have a drain petcock on the bottom. I almost drained it earlier just to see if 1) the lifter pump and/or fuel pump will fill back up or 2) it would help get rid of the air if any was trapped inside.

Is that worth trying?
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Old 01-28-2018, 02:00 PM   #17
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A very common problem for many diesel engines is a faulty fuel shutoff solenoid (that makes the engine shut down when you turn off the key).

If you can locate it, put a hand on it and have someone cycle "ignition" on/off a couple times. You should feel the solenoid as it cycles.

If this is a new unit, best course is to have it towed to the Dealer and have them deal with the problem. Might prevent bigger issues down the road.
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Old 01-28-2018, 02:10 PM   #18
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The folks on the IRV2 forum that joet19711 suggested posting on, mentioned the possibility of bad fuel too. Our last fuel stop was on the Interstate at a Pilot truck stop, but, it's certainly a possibility. For what it's worth, I didn't notice any difference in engine performance before or after the fill up.

I can easily drain the fuel from the filter/separator bowl, and I might be able to get a replacement filter from Freightliner this afternoon. There's a 24/7 service center about 10 minutes from the house.
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Old 01-28-2018, 02:15 PM   #19
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A very common problem for many diesel engines is a faulty fuel shutoff solenoid (that makes the engine shut down when you turn off the key).

If you can locate it, put a hand on it and have someone cycle "ignition" on/off a couple times. You should feel the solenoid as it cycles.

If this is a new unit, best course is to have it towed to the Dealer and have them deal with the problem. Might prevent bigger issues down the road.
I 'think' I found the solenoid you're referring to earlier this morning. It resembles the old Ford starter solenoids. I checked it for loose connections and didn't find any, but I didn't try to feel it when the ignition was cycled. One thing that was unclear was whether this solenoid controlled the actual fuel pump or just the lifter pump. I'm thinking that only the lifter pump is electrical and controlled by this solenoid.

The lifter pump is definitely coming on when the key is switched to the 'on' position...
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Old 01-28-2018, 02:17 PM   #20
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By the way, thanks for all the help everyone...I really appreciate it!!!
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