European RV windows

[Delco Bobby]

In the video you can see what seems to me a nice improvement in windows and window shades.

The awning windows open much wider. The screens and shades slide to any position desired.

The roof vents have unique features but no fans, at least in this model.

https://youtu.be/tSk1oNrxIrs

[letsgorving]

LOVE the windows

[bclemens]

Yep...those windows are awesome. They have been around for over a decade and OEM's here in the states have tried them....and failed.

Winnie options them now, Gulf Stream tried them about 10 years ago. The issue is...they are plastic/acrylic. To the US buyer, plastic is cheap. Plush...washing them with a brush, they end up scratching the windows or making them hazy. I think the perception is they will scratch more than they actually do...but try convincing someone to pay double the price for acrylic.

I would love to use them. They are dual pane, super light-weight and have great screens/shades. Maybe everyone was just ahead of their time.

[RedLdr1]

The Forester / Sunseeker TS Transit Series uses those windows or a very similar brand.

I agree the big issue is scratching the window. I treated ours the same as the windshields on our touring motorcycles and didn't have any problems. If you do damage one there are several products you can buy at motorcycles shops to try and remove, or at least minimize, the scratches / haze.

[caseymyers]

Northern Lite Pickup Campers use them. I think BC is right, they look so different from what we are used to they look strange to some folks and the plastic is a turn off. Great functionality of course.

[Delco Bobby]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Yep...those windows are awesome. They have been around for over a decade and OEM's here in the states have tried them....and failed.

Winnie options them now, Gulf Stream tried them about 10 years ago. The issue is...they are plastic/acrylic. To the US buyer, plastic is cheap. Plush...washing them with a brush, they end up scratching the windows or making them hazy. I think the perception is they will scratch more than they actually do...but try convincing someone to pay double the price for acrylic.

I would love to use them. They are dual pane, super light-weight and have great screens/shades. Maybe everyone was just ahead of their time.

Now I remember that you mentioned the plastic/acrylic in previous posts.

I prefer glass and I don’t know why a similar window couldn’t be offered using glass, weight permitting.

The sliding window on my Sunseeker allowed much greater air flow than current awning type windows.

[bclemens]

sliding windows do not look as sleek as the frameless windows...so some of it is aesthetics. Also a sliding window really can't be open when its raining, a frameless can. Again, pros-cons for them all.

[halla]

Per the video posted earlier, only euro snobs would want these. Lol.

[Delco Bobby]

Originally Posted by halla

Per the video posted earlier, only euro snobs would want these. Lol.

Funny.

I generally reject most things marketed as "Euro" as the concept turns me off.

But I do like the idea of these windows and I am sure they could be Americanized.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by halla

Per the video posted earlier, only euro snobs would want these. Lol.

I can't believe I missed that opportunity...must be the weather causing my slowness.

[RedLdr1]

Originally Posted by Delco Bobby

But I do like the idea of these windows and I am sure they could be Americanized.

Why would you want to screw up a perfectly good window?

Brian,

Why doesn't Dynamax use the windows from the TS Series in the 3 Series? It would help with the CCC issue I'd think....

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by RedLdr1

Why would you want to screw up a perfectly good window?

Brian,

Why doesn't Dynamax use the windows from the TS Series in the 3 Series? It would help with the CCC issue I'd think....

For the same reasons I have posted. They are about double the price for a plastic window. I see the benefits...but when you have to explain over and over to someone why a more expensive window is plastic, they think you're lying to them. And the first time they scratch one? I get to hear how terrible our quality is.

Lastly...to make a glass window, cut new glass. To make a plastic window it requires a form...so they are limited in sizes that are available. While we use common sizes for our windows....occasionally we might need a customer size to have the perfect fit and those can be done in glass.

[Delco Bobby]

Another perspective.

My eyeglasses always had glass lens until about 5 years ago. Then I reluctantly switched to plastic. The plastic lens get scratched even with protective coatings.

I have been noticing my vision has not been sharp but my prescription has not changed in many years.

Bought a new pair of glasses last week and WOW I could see clear across the COSTCO store. It was amazing. After I wear these glasses for awhile I expect my vision to lose sharpness again. Next time I will get glass lens again.

All those little scratches make a difference.

However, I would still prefer an awning window to open wider if possible and to be glass not plastic.

[Cypressloser]

My understanding is, from reports from the the UK, that acrylic is a wonderful material with good hail resistance, scratching is not a big issue and it has a 30 years life expectancy but the drawback is cost and we want tinted or colored windows and this is where acrylic fails. For some reason colored acrylic fades and dulls very quickly.

[caseymyers]

Originally Posted by bclemens

sliding windows do not look as sleek as the frameless windows...so some of it is aesthetics. Also a sliding window really can't be open when its raining, a frameless can. Again, pros-cons for them all.

After a summer of camping in heavy rain, I'm now a fan of the windows we have. The crank open works for venting very well if you are smart about which windows are open and if you also use the great power roof vents we have on these coaches. And as BC has said the aesthetics of the one smooth black glass is cool. I like what I have.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by bclemens

<Snip>
Lastly...to make a glass window, cut new glass. To make a plastic window it requires a form...so they are limited in sizes that are available. While we use common sizes for our windows....occasionally we might need a customer size to have the perfect fit and those can be done in glass.

Acrylic can be cut using a fine tooth blade in a variable speed jig saw. The jig saw can easily make curved corners. I have cut 3/16" Lexan, which is an acrylic, used for windows several times. Just like glass it needs to be supported when cutting. You need a slow speed because the acrylic tends to melt against the blade. Applying masking tape where your going to cut and marking, you don't need a form or jig if you can follow the lines. The setup is time consuming but if you need to make several of the same pattern then it's easy and quick. When it comes to mounting holes, masking tape and a spade bit at slow speed and at the right pressure does the job nicely.

Originally Posted by Cypressloser

My understanding is, from reports from the the UK, that acrylic is a wonderful material with good hail resistance, scratching is not a big issue and it has a 30 years life expectancy but the drawback is cost and we want tinted or colored windows and this is where acrylic fails. For some reason colored acrylic fades and dulls very quickly.

We never had a problem with tinted lexan. I worked at a scrap metal recycling facility (retired 2015) and we needed 3/16" - 5' x 6' bullet proof windows in the car shredder control tower. We needed to replace them about every 15 yrs, not because of scratches, but the chunks of metal hitting them were up to the size of softballs. You knew by the sound when a chunk hit a window even if you did not see it. After a time the microscopic stress fractures would make the window glow like gold when the sunshine hit it at the right direction making it hard to see through. The lexan never broke from the impact.

Many city buses use 5/16" tinted lexan for the side and rear windows. I've shredded plenty of them and the grapple cranes had a hard time breaking them. I used a bus window to make a table top for a pontoon boat to replace the plywood.

[bclemens]

Thanks, but those windows aren’t flat on the outside. It’s not like making a glass window out is Lexan, it’s a completely different window. Dual pane, curved seal.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Thanks, but those windows aren’t flat on the outside. It’s not like making a glass window out is Lexan, it’s a completely different window. Dual pane, curved seal.

Actually, acrylic windows can made dual/triple pane and vacuum formed to any configuration you want. Some of those bus windows were curved. The rear windows were flat.

IIRC, many double and triple pane windows actually have thin acrylic as the middle layers instead of glass. All double/triple pane windows have inert gas between the layers.

I'm not trying to argue, just suggesting some options.

[bclemens]

I'm not arguing either...just pointing out that it is not as simple as making glass windows. (of course no offense to glass window makers if they feel i am simplifying their process) The ones in the picture are formed and are dual pane (but perhaps not all). So I know it can be done, that is not the question...just trying to explain why it is not as common as one would think.

[Delco Bobby]

Just in case my original point was not stated well or misunderstood...

1. It would be nice if awning windows opened wider. I don’t know why that would affect the aesthetics when closed.

2. Made out of glass that is flat which was not mentioned originally. Disclaimer; my first job as a married man was as a glass cutter in a glass tempering factory.

3. The sliding screens and shades could be built as part of the window frame or window opening as a separate piece distinct from the window itself.

FWIW, I wouldn’t trade my REV for the RV in the video. It had some nice features but the REV seems more comfortable to me.