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Old 12-09-2019, 10:39 AM   #1
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Fresh Water Systems (Video) Looking for help (Isata 3, 4, 5)

It is our goal to make sure the "Customer Experience" on our products is 2nd to none. Today, our market varies greatly, from seasoned owners that have had 20 different RV's, to first time buyers that have never even tent camped. As an OEM primarily dealing with long time owners in the past, we tend to take certain things for granted. With technology and new RV's, I don't think we can do that.

In that line of thinking, we want to produce not only videos that are brand specific, but written text for those that learn better that way.

We are in the process of doing a simple video on the fresh water system...and as I am writing the text, trying to take into account what I have learned, I realize a simple video is not so simple.

So...here is what I have too far. Would appreciate any feedback from the seasoned vets.

There are two ways to get water. Water tank using on-board 12V pump (Dry Camping) and constant connection (City water)

Dry Camping
1. Make sure there are no pressure in the lines. (you can do this by opening a hot and cold faucet)
2. Turn the Anderson Valve to “Tank Fill”
3. Connect a hose and turn on the water supply to start filling the tank.
---DO NOT leave the tank unattended or serious damage can occur.
4. Monitor the tank sensors to verify when the tank is nearing full.
5. If water overflows the “overflow vent” turn off the water immediately. You can empty excess water using the low point drains.
6. Turn on your water pump to pressurize the lines. The water pump will continue to operate on-demand as long as it is in the "ON Position"

City Water
1. Make sure there is no pressure in the lines (you can do this by opening a hot and cold faucet)
2. Turn the water selector to “City Water”
3. Make sure the 12V on-board pump is OFF because water pressure is provided by the hose connection.
4. It is recommended that you have a pressure regulator at the camp site spigot to make sure the water pressure is not too high. Having this at the spigot also protects your hose from excessive pressure.
5. Connect the hose to the hose connection and turn on the Campground water supply

Please Note (Troubleshooting)
1. if water is coming out of the Truma water heater, then your pressure is likely too high. Truma recommends that the water pressure is no higher than 40psi.
2. if you are connected to city water and your water tank is filling….it is likely that the water pressure is too high and the tank is back-filling through the water pump.
3. If you have a pressure regulator and the water tank is still filling when on city water, you may have a faulty water pump. Sometimes by disconnecting the hose and running off the pump, you can re-set the water pump.
4. If you cannot stop the tank from overfilling while on city water it is recommend that you turn off the source and operate off the pump until you can have it service by a dealer.
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
It is our goal to make sure the "Customer Experience" on our products is 2nd to none. Today, our market varies greatly, from seasoned owners that have had 20 different RV's, to first time buyers that have never even tent camped. As an OEM primarily dealing with long time owners in the past, we tend to take certain things for granted. With technology and new RV's, I don't think we can do that.

In that line of thinking, we want to produce not only videos that are brand specific, but written text for those that learn better that way.

We are in the process of doing a simple video on the fresh water system...and as I am writing the text, trying to take into account what I have learned, I realize a simple video is not so simple.

So...here is what I have too far. Would appreciate any feedback from the seasoned vets.

There are two ways to get water. Water tank using on-board 12V pump (Dry Camping) and constant connection (City water)

Dry Camping
1. Make sure there are no pressure in the lines. (you can do this by opening a hot and cold faucet)
2. Turn the Anderson Valve to “Tank Fill”
3. Connect a hose and turn on the water supply to start filling the tank.
---DO NOT leave the tank unattended or serious damage can occur.
4. Monitor the tank sensors to verify when the tank is nearing full.
5. If water overflows the “overflow vent” turn off the water immediately. You can empty excess water using the low point drains.
6. Turn on your water pump to pressurize the lines. The water pump will continue to operate on-demand as long as it is in the "ON Position"

City Water
1. Make sure there is no pressure in the lines (you can do this by opening a hot and cold faucet)
2. Turn the water selector to “City Water”
3. Make sure the 12V on-board pump is OFF because water pressure is provided by the hose connection.
4. It is recommended that you have a pressure regulator at the camp site spigot to make sure the water pressure is not too high. Having this at the spigot also protects your hose from excessive pressure.
5. Connect the hose to the hose connection and turn on the Campground water supply

Please Note (Troubleshooting)
1. if water is coming out of the Truma water heater, then your pressure is likely too high. Truma recommends that the water pressure is no higher than 40psi.
2. if you are connected to city water and your water tank is filling….it is likely that the water pressure is too high and the tank is back-filling through the water pump.
3. If you have a pressure regulator and the water tank is still filling when on city water, you may have a faulty water pump. Sometimes by disconnecting the hose and running off the pump, you can re-set the water pump.
4. If you cannot stop the tank from overfilling while on city water it is recommend that you turn off the source and operate off the pump until you can have it service by a dealer.
On the dry camping one add switch Anderson valve to normal before pressuring system.
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:58 PM   #3
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Good catch. I also caught myself...I thought 40 seemed low. Its 65 on the Truma.

I also added a line about water leaking at the hose end. Seems self explanatory, but mentioned it might be missing the rubber washer. I mainly see that issue on the LP fill. People lose that washer and can't seem to make a sound connection. It's amazing to me that even the local LP employees don't mention it.
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Old 12-10-2019, 01:28 PM   #4
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I have never done step #1. Maybe because I drain water and open low point drains after use before storage. Add instructions when not in use.

- check low point drains closed.
- if objective is to cover older models then can fill water tank from outside fill on I5.
- include instructions on water filter maintenance / check

Suggest including how to turn on Truma for hot water.

These will be good for new and experienced users.
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Old 12-10-2019, 01:32 PM   #5
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If you want to add helpful / quick tips I put quick hose connects on the water hose and fill box.
Mention to use hose approved for drinking water.
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Old 12-10-2019, 03:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whalenss View Post
I have never done step #1. Maybe because I drain water and open low point drains after use before storage. Add instructions when not in use.

- check low point drains closed.
- if objective is to cover older models then can fill water tank from outside fill on I5.
- include instructions on water filter maintenance / check

Suggest including how to turn on Truma for hot water.

These will be good for new and experienced users.
Opening the low point drains would accomplish the same thing.

I think in the owners manual we talk about the filter...basically scrap it.
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post

Dry Camping
1. Make sure there are no pressure in the lines. (you can do this by opening a hot and cold faucet)
2. Turn the Anderson Valve to “Tank Fill”
3. Connect a hose and turn on the water supply to start filling the tank.
---DO NOT leave the tank unattended or serious damage can occur.
4. Monitor the tank sensors to verify when the tank is nearing full.
5. If water overflows the “overflow vent” turn off the water immediately. You can empty excess water using the low point drains.
6. Turn on your water pump to pressurize the lines. The water pump will continue to operate on-demand as long as it is in the "ON Position"
Our Isata5 does not have an Anderson Valve. Is that something that has been added in more recent versions?

If I was a brand new, never-done-this-before owner, I might find #5 a tad misleading. The valves that are labeled “Low Point Drain” are in the wet bay on the Dynamax built valve “box” thingy. With that said, if I overfilled my tank and wanted to get rid of some water, I would not go to the valves labeled “Low Point Drain” in the wet bay. I would open the drain valve that is right there on the tank. So, saying “You can empty excess water using the low point drains” doesn’t exactly make sense.

Of course, that all assumes that the other Isata 5s are the same as ours. I know the 30FW has the tank under the bed, so that could be different…..and I know you said you are probably moving the tank under the bed in the 36DS, so that could end up being different too. If this is the case, then I’ll stop talking now……
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:27 PM   #8
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Sorry, that should read 3 & 4 not 5.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:09 PM   #9
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Well water

I added water at a rural campground. I did not realize that it was well water. The smell of the water in our tank after 3 days was awful. If you are unsure of your water source, add RV chlorine tablets or a tablespoon of bleach to your freshwater tank.

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Old 12-11-2019, 02:54 PM   #10
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On my Isata series 4, I fill fresh water tank at home by using the exterior water fill
(with cap) at access door, and do not use the city water connection and valve to fill the fresh water tank. That way, I do not have to switch the valve and can just leave it on city water. I find it much easier that way!
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:23 PM   #11
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Fresh water tank fill

I had the fresh water tank fill while on CITY. I closed off the city water and relieved the pressure. I cycled the Anderson valve around once and put in the CITY position again, no more problem with fresh water fill. I believe the valve hadn’t seated completely the first time. I read somewhere you should only turn the Anderson valve clockwise to keep from pinching the 0 rings.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:34 PM   #12
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I am part of the grammar police so I will edit your text with suggested corrections.
As a "new" user, explain what the ANDERSON switch is and where it is located. Also do a separate, Isata version, on how the Truma Hot Water System should be turned on and used.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:21 PM   #13
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I am part of the grammar police so I will edit your text with suggested corrections.
As a "new" user, explain what the ANDERSON switch is and where it is located. Also do a separate, Isata version, on how the Truma Hot Water System should be turned on and used.
OK. The Anderson Switch is located in the far rear left compartment adjacent to the exterior shower. The Dial type switch is used to select where you want the exterior water entering the coach to go directly to your pump or into the fresh water tank. You can also chose dry camping when not hooked up to an external water source or winterize when you want to pump antifreeze through your system. The valve is reportedly finicky. It is recommended that before turning it, you should depressurize your system by turning off your pump and opening a faucet (I just turn the pump off and use the exterior shower to release any pressure). As noted above, although it is not in the manual, it may be better to always turn the valve in the same direction. I always turn it clockwise but I am not sure it makes any difference.

The Truma hot water heater is fantastic but has way to many off and on switches. The way I remember how to use it is when turning it on, start at the heater itself, then the switch by the door and then the switch under the sink. To turn it off, reverse the order. The heater has a regular setting, an Eco setting, and a decalcification setting which I have never used. I primarily use the Eco setting. You can read about these in the Manual. You do not want to dial up the Decalcification setting accidentally because apparently it will initiate a decalcification cycle lasting a couple of hours which you can't interrupt. One other pearl, if you have a power interruption, you may notice the orange light blinking an error code. Don't worry about it. It will go away on its own, or you can carefully turn the heater off and then back on.

Hope this helps
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:06 AM   #14
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" The way I remember how to use it is when turning it on, start at the heater itself, then the switch by the door and then the switch under the sink."
I was not aware of a SWITCH UNDER THE SINK! I will be taking the Isata 3 out of storage soon and will look for it. I have only used the Truma system successfully a couple of times. I did learn the outside switch can be either in the UP position or the DOWN direction.
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Old 12-12-2019, 08:11 AM   #15
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#1 Check Grammar !
#2 If you use a specific name for something....Use the same name in remainder of instructions.
(2. Turn the Anderson Valve to “Tank Fill”) (2. Turn the water selector to “City Water") Are these the SAME VALVE ?? Call it one or the other...NOT BOTH.
3. Connect a hose and turn on the water supply to start filling the tank.
---DO NOT leave the tank unattended or serious damage can occur.
CONNECT A HOSE TO WHAT ?? (Specifics are the key to good instructions.)
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Old 12-12-2019, 08:36 AM   #16
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Low point drains wont do anything unless the pump is on, otherwise need to use the tank drain. Took me a bit to learn that one.

If doing written, a diagram of the water system may be helpful for those type of learners. Doesn't need to be super detailed but showing how things are piped from the anderson valve, the tank, the pump then onto the plumbing would definitely be helpful.

One trick I use is to just flip the valve to tank fill to bleed pressure on the system. I never remember til I'm outside and this keeps from getting water all over. Small thing but it's become my SOP when filling.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:07 AM   #17
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1. for those talking Truma, there is a video for that already. And we will likely do written instructions on that separately.
2. There will be a video for this as well. So as much as I would like to list every single way possible....it gets so long that no one reads it. So we're looking for the simplest possible way to describe the process. KISS. Then have a video to go along with it. And in most cases the video needs to be 2-5 minutes if possible
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Barch View Post
OK. The Anderson Switch is located in the far rear left compartment adjacent to the exterior shower. The Dial type switch is used to select where you want the exterior water entering the coach to go directly to your pump or into the fresh water tank. You can also chose dry camping when not hooked up to an external water source or winterize when you want to pump antifreeze through your system. The valve is reportedly finicky. It is recommended that before turning it, you should depressurize your system by turning off your pump and opening a faucet (I just turn the pump off and use the exterior shower to release any pressure). As noted above, although it is not in the manual, it may be better to always turn the valve in the same direction. I always turn it clockwise but I am not sure it makes any difference.

The Truma hot water heater is fantastic but has way to many off and on switches. The way I remember how to use it is when turning it on, start at the heater itself, then the switch by the door and then the switch under the sink. To turn it off, reverse the order. The heater has a regular setting, an Eco setting, and a decalcification setting which I have never used. I primarily use the Eco setting. You can read about these in the Manual. You do not want to dial up the Decalcification setting accidentally because apparently it will initiate a decalcification cycle lasting a couple of hours which you can't interrupt. One other pearl, if you have a power interruption, you may notice the orange light blinking an error code. Don't worry about it. It will go away on its own, or you can carefully turn the heater off and then back on.

Hope this helps
What switch under the sink????

There is the switch on the water heater itself, behind the door.
There is the Rotary dial in the coach. Thats it (with an asterisk)

On earlier models, they wanted to put the Truma on the multiplex so you could turn it off and on with the app. This was not a good idea for multiple reasons...but really if you just LEAVE that on at the multiplex you can use the dial normally and pretend it was never on the multiplex panel.

Also, as mentioned in the video. You can DISCONNECT the rotary switch all together. If you then the switch on the Truma UP, that is Eco and DOWN is comfort. Now we're down to ONE switch if you really wanted.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:40 AM   #19
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Brian, I think that for those new to the RVing experience, and the nomenclature and acronyms that go with it, it can be confusing as to even what the terms 'Dry Camping', 'City Water', and other words and phrases 'mean', in light of what they should be doing to accomplish that.

The term 'Dry Camping' might mean different things to different people, especially those without all of the background knowledge yet of all of the various different types of 'camping' situations. Maybe a better phrase would be: 'when Using your Water Tank', or 'No water hose', etc., though I probably just confused even more folks!

I'm not a fan of the term 'City Water' - as this almost sounds like you must be in a 'city'. Maybe a better term is 'spigot water', or 'pressurized water', or even better 'water HOSE'.


The RVing industry has so many 'words', which makes sense to the manufacturers, and even long-term RVers, but which rose from archaic terms or phrases from the past, which might not best reflect 'today' and our current camping and rving needs.
A similar situation has been in play for hundreds of years in the 'shipping' world, as few folks now equate anything to do with WATER as part of their package arriving from Amazon. 'Trucking' might be a better term, or 'Delivery' might even be better, yet all of us 'older' folks tend to still fall back on using the term 'shipping'.
In my industry, Insurance, there is a term called 'Inland Marine', meaning equipment that you use in the course of business, such as large tractors, welders, cranes, and even simple tools. Where in the world did the term 'Inland Marin' ever even make any sense for these items?? Well, when insurance first got started, it was actually only for the main and primary concern of loss, the CARGO within the ships coming from England to the U.S... once the cargo was unloaded, though, and no longer on a 'ship', it no longer was classified as 'cargo' and therefore was no longer covered by the insurance policy, though certainly loss could occur before the 'cargo' ever reached it's destination. The insurance industry then coined the term 'inland marine' since most of what they dealt with was 'water based' cargo, and the term 'inland marine' then made sense to them. It doesn't to the rest of us though, especially a hundred years later, when most none of us equate shipping with our equipment we use in our 'land based' business!


Maybe Forest River and others should look a the 'words' the RVing industry uses moving forward - making sure that words make the most 'sense' for what the owner is trying to accomplish when turning a valve, or making a connection. Even the hand-written labels on the Main Electrical Panel can be wonky - sometimes not legible, and sometimes not understandable since they might be 'shortened' due to limited room on the label, etc. Maybe provide a 'Legend' next to the labels, etc. to limit confusion.
...the use of 'gen' might seem to be GENERATOR, when it's meaning is actually 'general outlets'....see what I mean? : )

An idea about the wet bay is to provide a COLOR CODED system, where it would be easy to see which valves need to be turned when making a specific type of connection.
If 'dry camping', otherwise without a 'water hose' connection, by using the 'water tank', then use a GREEN color next to the VALVE direction for the water pump to pull from the water tank. Use that same GREEN color next to the water pump switch.
If 'city water, otherwise 'pressurized water' is available, or 'water spigot' is the connection, then use a BLUE color next to the direction of the Valve, and a BLUE color next to the external water connection for the water hose.


etc....


FUN....and thanks for asking!
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:47 AM   #20
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"The Anderson Switch is located in the far rear left compartment adjacent to the exterior shower. The Dial type switch is used to select where you want the exterior water entering the coach to go directly to your pump or into the fresh water tank."

The labels on the Anderson (aka water destination switch) are difficult to read. I think they are black raised lettering on the black background. Use contrasting media labels like white letters on the black background. I used a label maker and added words to better see them. I also made notes on the outside fill openings to indicate which way to turn the caps to open and close. No more repeating LEFTY/RIGHTY JINGLE.
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