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02-03-2017, 12:13 PM
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#181
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol, IN
Posts: 18,905
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The CCC on the 24FW, without the jacks,diesel gen is right at 1,000lbs.
The 24RW on average has about 50 lbs less.
As for quality, no one is perfect, but I think we do a better job than most in making sure our stuff is as close to showroom ready as possible. We are not a high volume builder, so we have a better ability to control that. I can't really comment on the Winnie stuff...when I walk other mfg's product, I know what I am looking for. I see things in the field that our dealer body would NEVER let us get away with.
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02-03-2017, 12:50 PM
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#182
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 66
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higher chassis capacity
Brian is there any update on when Mercedes will begin selling the higher capacity chassis in the US and if Isata will use it
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02-03-2017, 12:51 PM
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#183
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol, IN
Posts: 18,905
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Nope. We would use it as soon as they started selling it into the US
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02-04-2017, 04:53 PM
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#184
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 66
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Are you making 2018's yet with a2017 mercedes chassis?
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02-04-2017, 06:42 PM
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#185
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol, IN
Posts: 18,905
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Should start seeing those ship in a couple of months
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02-04-2017, 06:55 PM
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#186
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 447
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"As for quality, no one is perfect, but I think we do a better job than most in making sure our stuff is as close to showroom ready as possible. We are not a high volume builder, so we have a better ability to control that."
Just a note, there is build quality and there is component quality.
As to build quality, the industry builds a custom chassis to order, so you don't have build quality control like in the auto industry. The primary focus is on PDI's and customer service. Yes, some mfgs try harder on the assembly line than others, and others just shove em out the door.
(Mfg msg to customers of shoved out units with entry level quality components...If you wanted better you should have paid more, a lot more.)
As to component quality, mfgs tend to fall somewhere between first impressions to hide the lack of component quality, mixed quality, and high quality. Quality = weight. AND the biggest issues are with what is not obvious to the eye and what most first time customers just fail to pay attention to or take into consideration.
Personally, I hate the fake word cabinets with wood faces. Cxxp.
If I see cheap tires on a trailer, I think there has to be a lot of hidden or subtle Cxxp.
If I see a low payload, I'm done. Compromised design/quality to attempt to meet a price point, with payload not really being considered other than an after thought.
However, a very tough industry to meet price points and maintain a reasonable payload while trying to include quality components, let alone do a quality build.
The point that no one is perfect is irrelevant.
And not saying I could do better.
If I was 20 years younger I would definitely do a restoration, but will probably buy new or gently used being currently in buy mode.
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02-05-2017, 07:11 AM
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#187
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 918
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"As to component quality, mfgs tend to fall somewhere between first impressions to hide the lack of component quality, mixed quality, and high quality."
I would agree as the vehicle assembler is stuck with the quality level that is industry standard , and can be easilt repaired or replaced.
This is good for the purchaser as better grade items may be overkill for the time an owner will have the vehicle.
Example , fresh water pumps at the RV shop will run $80 to $150 and last for a few years.
A high quality marine unit may be $1000 and last for decades.
A pump failure is a hassle but no big deal for the RV folks , but could create a very difficult problem for a boat underway offshore.
Weather the RV folks would have an advantage paying 10X more for a pump that may wear out 5 owners later is an easy decision for most RV mfg.
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02-05-2017, 08:44 AM
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#188
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 447
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"vehicle assembler is stuck with the quality level that is industry standard , and can be easilt repaired or replaced.
This is good for the purchaser as better grade items may be overkill for the time an owner will have the vehicle.
Example , fresh water pumps at the RV shop will run $80 to $150 and last for a few years.
A high quality marine unit may be $1000 and last for decades.
A pump failure is a hassle but no big deal for the RV folks , but could create a very difficult problem for a boat underway offshore.
Weather the RV folks would have an advantage paying 10X more for a pump that may wear out 5 owners later is an easy decision for most RV mfg."
==================
One of the most interesting replies I have read in the last 4 years.
The word few means a very small number. A couple of years or maybe 2 years, to start with, comes to mind.
Basically, I would argue that the warranties that come with an RV tell you how long a particular component is expected to last. That is easily subject to an argument, but I think it also includes the failure of most new owners to be knowledgeable, financially willing/able, and to take the time to keep the unit up 100%...which is why depreciation is so severe.
Having done a lot of RV inspections as a trained inspector hired by an extended warranty company, I am amazed at how much damage, undone maintenance, and sloppy repairs I have seen on used units for sale.
Note the number of B&M threads by newbie owners about their new units on various RV forums whose expectations were unmet.
=========
Unfortunately, and maybe not "good for the purchaser," the RV dream quality marketing doesn't inform the public that: 1) their unit often comes with factory mistakes (sometimes severe and often multiple) that need to be corrected (with possibly substantial warranty time in shop and mixed results to horrible results) 2) based on time, not usage, their new unit is already behind the maintenance curve (with a big box full of warranties that some mfgs use to say it is not their problem) and 3) parts and components are not expected to last beyond a "few" years...despite being subjected to earth quakes when moving (yet the high industry prices for entry level junk (junk = service repairman term...Cxxp also used).
And very difficult to understand just how unsafe some of the RVs are, for example: 1) class As are not subject to crash testing and 2) many travel trailers are sold with CxxP tires.
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02-05-2017, 02:28 PM
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#189
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 918
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The problem is most mfg are not willing to sell a stripped unit where for the few folks the choice of better grade equipment would make sense.
Speed of mfg , and space requirements keep choices down.
And most new owners would be horrified at attempting a decision.
"A couple of years or maybe 2 years, to start with, comes to mind. "
2 years of full time boondocking is a vast difference from 2 years of vacation camping travel.
As the water taste and quality vary ,even many campers will use their own on board supply , rather than bring aboard recycled local pool remnants.
So in many cases its better to simply toss worn out items a few times rather than pay for the higher grades.
A diesel heating system useful in the Dakotas in the winter would be vast overkill for most weekend warriors and vacation travelers.
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02-05-2017, 02:57 PM
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#190
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 447
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However, find me a mfg that refers to their unit as stripped down and informs customers that it is designed to last only a few years of 2 or 3 weeks of camping per year.
Also, maintenance is also time based, not just usage based, which is one reason you find old tires that look good on used RVs, but need to be replaced.
"2 years of full time boondocking is a vast difference from 2 years of vacation camping travel."
Most trailers/MH, for example, are designed for vacation camping travel, with minimal usage, which is why they are called entry level by the industry, but never inform customers.
Some trailers/MH are designed for full time living, but mfgs are more vocal about that.
Sure, some people will live full time in an entry level trailer designed for 2 or 3 weeks of camping a year. And many ill informed buyers are totally clueless of lousy component quality thinking they paid $70 to $100k for a high quality RV.
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02-05-2017, 03:04 PM
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#191
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 639
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I resemble that remark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philos3
However, find me a mfg that refers to their unit as stripped down and informs customers that it is designed to last only a few years of 2 or 3 weeks of camping per year.
Also, maintenance is also time based, not just usage based, which is one reason you find old tires that look good on used RVs, but need to be replaced.
"2 years of full time boondocking is a vast difference from 2 years of vacation camping travel."
Most trailers/MH, for example, are designed for vacation camping travel, with minimal usage, which is why they are called entry level by the industry, but never inform customers.
Some trailers/MH are designed for full time living, but mfgs are more vocal about that.
Sure, some people will live full time in an entry level trailer designed for 2 or 3 weeks of camping a year. And many ill informed buyers are totally clueless of lousy component quality thinking they paid $70 to $100k for a high quality RV.
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We normally research things to death before buying. Unfortunately, we didn't do that this time and were caught up in the excitement of the moment. I think the Forester MBS is adequate for us now as we have improved it in many areas. Build and component quality are just ok. We have replaced several components with better ones for more enjoyment and hopefully better reliability. If we had to do it again, we would buy a year old LTV Unity. Build quality is far superior in my view.
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02-07-2017, 03:50 PM
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#192
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 66
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2016 vs 2017 chassis
Hello brian,
We purchasing our rv and are looking at a 2017 with a 2016 chassis on the lot or place an order for a unit with a 2017 chassis for $1500 more. What are the changes to the 2017 chassis and is it worth the extra $.
Thanks!
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02-07-2017, 04:15 PM
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#193
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol, IN
Posts: 18,905
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Well, we're not building on 2017 chassis yet. That won't happen until June or July. So what you would be getting with an order is a 2018 on a 2016 chassis. If you wait until 2017 chassis, I'm not so sure it would just be $1500. I have not released pricing on a 2017 chassis so there is no way for the dealer to quote and honor that price. They can only quote 2018 on 2016.
As for changes...just pre-wire for trailer hitch. Smart wheel/Pixel display. I think that's it.
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02-07-2017, 04:47 PM
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#194
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 66
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Best Rep
Brian you are the reason we are buying a forest River product, thanks for all your help!!
Hope to meet you at the summer rally.
Randy
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02-07-2017, 04:58 PM
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#195
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol, IN
Posts: 18,905
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It's for my perfect grammar isn't it? After reading my post back...I realized I used the wrong form of "There". I have since corrected from "their"...but as a certified grammar nazi, I must self report.
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02-07-2017, 05:10 PM
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#196
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 66
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Engineers are not noted for their perfect grammer, I am living proof!
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02-08-2017, 08:09 AM
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#197
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 918
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"If you wait until 2017 chassis, I'm not so sure it would just be $1500."
The Euro has been at $1.60 and $1.40 and is now at $1.06.
If the importer will pass that dollar gain on, the chassis cost might actually drop.
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02-08-2017, 08:37 AM
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#198
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol, IN
Posts: 18,905
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That's funny. Mercedes-Benz passing on any price savings. Plus it hasn't been $1.40 since 2014....so any price savings that are there have already been baked in. It's been bouncing between 1.08 and 1.15 since 2015.
The real hope is that the Transit has eaten enough into their business that they need to get aggressive just to hold market share.
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02-13-2017, 03:29 PM
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#199
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 9
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Surge protector
Took delivery of a 2017 Isata 3 in the middle of January and preparing for our first trip. Wondering if this unit has a built-in surge protector or will I have to address that myself.
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02-13-2017, 03:42 PM
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#200
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol, IN
Posts: 18,905
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No surge protector. They make some portable ones.
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