The Force HD For Boon docking?

[The Renegade]

Ok this should be my last thread for a while and appreciate all the help so far. The coach we ordered comes with a residential frig but all I have been reading and some from friends says not to get the residential but opt for the rv frig to use the gas when boon docking.

I would like to know how many days you can make it running the generator a couple hours a day?

Or If your boon docking , what does it take to make it a week? I know there is plenty on line to read but most info is kinda old and is not specific enough to the Force HD.

This should be the last questions I should have for a while because I still have time to change the frig on my order.

Thanks for any input...

[sconnors11]

In my experience, stock batteries last abut a day when the refrigerator is running.

[bclemens]

We are now putting (2) 4D batteries in the Force. No longer (2) group 31.

[caseymyers]

Question for BC:
If I change out the Group 31's for 4 ea 4D (Isata 5) do I need to change any of the electrical system, like the Xantrex? Any wiring changes needed?
And would the 4, 4D's extend my dry camping time using my residential fridge as compared to 4 31's? Or is it just as good to add 2 Group 31's for a total of 4?

[AnnArborBob]

Hi Brian,

What does the residential fridge draw when running? I don't mean the "annual kWh" that's on the door sticker, but the actual power draw in AC amps?

Thanks,
Bob

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

Question for BC:
If I change out the Group 31's for 4 ea 4D (Isata 5) do I need to change any of the electrical system, like the Xantrex? Any wiring changes needed?
And would the 4, 4D's extend my dry camping time using my residential fridge as compared to 4 31's? Or is it just as good to add 2 Group 31's for a total of 4?

for one, I don't think there is any way you can fit (4) 4D batteries in there. They are about double the length of a 27. Plus the battery tray is not rated for the weight. You may be able to get (2) 4D's in there as I think that is the same tray we used to use on the trucks and it is sized and weight rated for that.

You would need to add jumpers of change the jumpers to get to the new terminals... as for what is better? It's sort of all about amp Hours.

(2) 4D at 198 AH each is 396 (20 AH rate)
(4) 27's at 92 each is 368...but you only need to buy two. Cost wise, certainly the 27's are the way to go. More AH's with the 4d's.

pro's and con's to both. toss up in my mind. Try the (2) stock...see where it puts you and then gauge what you might need.

[caseymyers]

Thanks Brian, good advice, try it and if I need more I can always add two batts.
Does the Isata 5 come with 27's or 31's? I was reading about the Deka. Seems like a very good product.

[bclemens]

Group 27's currently. we had run 31's, but while the 27's don't show that they are much lighter, or scales said that we saved about 20 lbs I think. Plus the 27's seemed to be more readily available.

[ependydad]

If boondocking and a residential fridge are planned- consider upgrading to 12v lithium drop-ins. They're group 27 sized and only 30 lbs. each. They have more usable amp hours (you can run them down 100% vs. 50% of lead-based batteries). And they accept a faster recharge. You do need a lithium-aware charger. The biggest downside is the cost at $800-1,000 per 100ah battery.

[Magnatudes]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

Thanks Brian, good advice, try it and if I need more I can always add two batts.
Does the Isata 5 come with 27's or 31's? I was reading about the Deka. Seems like a very good product.

From my experience, I have been using Deka Group 31 Intimidator batteries since 2006 in a diesel boat (2 in parallel for starting & 2 in parallel for running accessories) these batteries are excellent. The starting batteries I replaced after 6 years. The accessory batteries were replaced after 11 years. All are charged by a three stage intelligent charger when moored or in storage.

Intimidator Group 31 & Group 27 are basically the same physical size. The difference is 6lbs per battery.
Group 27 92 @20AH rate, 900 MCA, 580 CCA @zero degrees
Group 31 105 @20AH rate, 1000MCA, 800CCA @zero degrees

I recently discovered another battery manufacturer that caters to the solar industry.
https://www.vmaxtanks.com/Campers-and-Rvs_c_37.html

They have a Group 31 with these specs:
https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XTR31-135-...ry-_p_176.html

If you have an addition 2" of height:
https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XTR31-135-...ry-_p_176.html

They also have 7 stage intelligent chargers.

[caseymyers]

Thanks for all the replies, I think I'll take Brians advice and go with the two 27's and see how the fridge works while I'm dry camping. Which for us is not often and probably only for a few days at a time. Least expensive solution and probably all we need, and running the Gen for a few hours + solar should keep them topped off. Using the solar controller I assume you can tell how many Volts are left in the batts when running on the inverter? And at 11 volts you should kick on the generator for a couple of hours?
Thanks
Casey

[bclemens]

The Isata 5 has auto gen start. So I would personally set the level to no less than 11.8V for the gen to come on. 12 would be even better.

[caseymyers]

Thanks, good to know, set it at 12 volts. With a time out for quiet hours...

[The Renegade]

Thanks for all the replies. Only bad part is I don’t have a flipping clue what any of that meant. I’m gonna have to enroll in college for a Motorhome electrical degree. All I have ever done is pull in a campground and plug the thing up. This is not good.

Brian do y’all put on a Motorhome for idiots clinic at the factory because I’m gonna need it.

[RV Randy]

Originally Posted by Mountieman

Thanks for all the replies. Only bad part is I don’t have a flipping clue what any of that meant. I’m gonna have to enroll in college for a Motorhome electrical degree. All I have ever done is pull in a campground and plug the thing up. This is not good.

Brian do y’all put on a Motorhome for idiots clinic at the factory because I’m gonna need it.

Simple answer based on my experience: We typically use our motorhome for traveling to race tracks during my racing season. We usually arrive Friday mornings and leave late on Sunday afternoons. Our Class A has the residential fridge and no solar panels. So when we are at a track where there are no hook ups, we are essentially "boon docking". In a typical day I fire the generator up to run the microwave and coffee maker for breakfast and to recharge the batteries. It normally runs for max 2 hours. If it is cool so the air conditioners are not required, the generator stays off the rest of the day until evening. I usually start it up again while dinner is being prepared and to top off the batteries. We then run until the next morning on batteries without issues until the breakfast cycle starts again. We've never had a "brown out" in this scenario.

I'm assuming battery performance will be similar or better on the DX3 because it is configured with more battery capacity than our Palazzo was, plus we ordered it with the 2 solar panels to supplement the batteries during the day.

For me the residential fridge was a better choice because it was roughly 25% more capacity, and that space for us is always a premium.

When I compare other scenarios for us (race track that has power hookups or staying in campgrounds with a hook up) then the residential fridge is the much better choice for us. Even when we spent over a month touring Alaska, we never went without a power hook up more than a day or two, and then we operated in the "race track" mode I described.

If you are going to do the majority of your camping in the "dry" no hookups mode, and those will be for extended periods of time, then maybe the RV fridge is the better way to go.

But also consider this: The RV fridge will save you some battery capacity versus running the residential fridge off of the inverter or by running it off of LP. The LP tank on the Dynamax's is not huge, so if you are running the fridge, plus the stove, plus the Aqua Hot furnace if it is cold, you will only have (so I'm told) 2-3 days of LP capacity. What is easier, starting the generator or taking the rig in to town to get the LP re-filled? Plus, at least in my Palazzo, some appliances only run on shore power or generator i.e. not on the battery/inverter. So you may be starting the generator anyways to run those items.

We went with the all electric option (which I spent a lot of time thinking through the pro's and con's). Yes, that option gives you induction cook top, which the wife was OK with. It also gives you the diesel powered Aqua Hot heat and eliminates the LP tank (and therefore the RV fridge option) giving you more external storage space.

The wife was OK with induction cooking because most of her cooking is done via the MW or the Breville countertop hot air oven/fryer/pizza oven.

The diesel powered Aqua Hot can let you run the furnace, if needed (whether stationary or in motion) for as long as you have more than 1/4 tank of diesel in the rig. I'm told it uses 2-4 gallons of diesel per 24 hour period depending on temperature, so if your fuel tank is full you easily have more than a weeks worth of capacity. Again, keep in mind the limited LP capacity especially if boon docking in cold weather.

Storage for us, is always a premium especially when loading up to be gone for extended periods of time. Its very hard to add more storage capacity after the fact unless you resort to towing a car or trailer that you can put more stuff in.

I also consider re-sale value. To some people not having an RV fridge would be a negative. But it seems there are more people that prefer the larger fridge because most of their camping will be done with a hook up or occasionally supplemented by using the generator. Long answer but you don't need an MBA in electrical engineering to understand it.

[caseymyers]

Not to worry. That's why many of us are here, to learn from the more experienced and those that have 'been there done that' mistakes before us. I've only been here a few weeks and I've learned a lot and I've had 14 RV rigs in my camping career. Collective genius going on here.

[tdemeyer1]

So I'm trying to figure this out, we have a 2018 DX3 with 2 solar panels and a residential fridge. We have no propane, totally electric with diesel generator, Aqua Hot, furnace. I'm wondering with the solar panels how long the fridge could last? I know we could run the generator (not sure how many gals of diesel) would last. We have done nothing extra, everything is stock from factory. I wondered if we could add one more solar panel with the standard batteries etc it came with?

[RV Randy]

Originally Posted by tdemeyer1

So I'm trying to figure this out, we have a 2018 DX3 with 2 solar panels and a residential fridge. We have no propane, totally electric with diesel generator, Aqua Hot, furnace. I'm wondering with the solar panels how long the fridge could last? I know we could run the generator (not sure how many gals of diesel) would last. We have done nothing extra, everything is stock from factory. I wondered if we could add one more solar panel with the standard batteries etc it came with?

Its very simple to figure out. Determine the amperage draw of the fridge per hour (should be on a tag on the back of the unit or possibly under the floor grill in the front). You know what the amp hour capacity of your batteries are when fully charged. Divide the battery capacity by the amp hour use of the fridge and you have your number.

This assumes nothing else is drawing amps except the fridge. Again, in my experience you could probably go a full 24 hours between recharges if NOTHING except the fridge is drawing amps (no lights, no TV's, no fans, no radios, etc). The amount of fuel the generator uses is tiny. Read the manual for it and it will tell you how much it burns per hour under full load. Remember this is an 8KW (80 amp) generator so you will rarely run it under anything even close to full load. I had to run both of my AC units at the same time we ran the coffee maker and MW, along with the fridge, TV's, lights, etc before I could get the breaker for the generator to trip.

[The Renegade]

Thanks Randy. You put that in terms that even I could understand. I quit doing math years ago except when I have to so simple analogies is a whole lot easier for me.

To be honest I do not know if this rig will ever boon dock except over night traveling some where. We have friends who do the out west thing every year and they boon dock but not sure about us.

I have flown all over the U.S. hunting and parts of Canada also but cant fly anymore. Got this thing a few years ago with tight places and too many people crowding me in so the motorhome is the next best answer.

That took some time for you to write out so thanks again for the info.

[RV Randy]

Originally Posted by Mountieman

Thanks Randy. You put that in terms that even I could understand. I quit doing math years ago except when I have to so simple analogies is a whole lot easier for me.

To be honest I do not know if this rig will ever boon dock except over night traveling some where. We have friends who do the out west thing every year and they boon dock but not sure about us.

I have flown all over the U.S. hunting and parts of Canada also but cant fly anymore. Got this thing a few years ago with tight places and too many people crowding me in so the motorhome is the next best answer.

That took some time for you to write out so thanks again for the info.

And, the house batteries are being charged when you are driving. So if you pull up for the night you should be good to go for the entire night without running the generator.