Towing ~8k with dx3 or XL

[jaherbst]

I have looked at them but the short 74" King size bed is a deal breaker for me. I had a short Queen once that was 74" long and hated it. Can't stand to sleep with my feet sticking out the bottom 6".

Jack

[wfo9]

Originally Posted by LTZ470

Keep in mind there's about 3% HP loss for each 1000ft of elevation, some say 4%/1000ft...

And always: HP is how fast you hit the wall, TQ is far you take it with you, after you hit it...AKA "grunt"...

I would think a turbo diesel with variable geometry would be way less than a 3% loss per 1k feet (my guess would be 1.5-.5%) 3% is typically a NA engine number. The turbo changes things up completely and should mostly be able to compensate for the change in air density. There will still be some loss, but it depends on how dialed back things are to begin with and how responsive the wastegate/VGT technology is. Spool and overall responsiveness is usually impacted more than final output at altitude on a turbo setup...

[Orangecrush]

I should have been a little more clear. We’re back in Charlotte (almost-fueling up) and you can maintain 66 mph of you get a running start. If I go into a long hill at 77, you can usually maintain 65.

[hook47]

Power loss with a turbo engine doesn't happen till 10 - 12,000 feet, IIRC. I'll second what the "Crusher" said, anticipate hills and you can maintain a higher speed. Once you slow down, you can really slow down!

[LTZ470]

Originally Posted by wfo9

I would think a turbo diesel with variable geometry would be way less than a 3% loss per 1k feet (my guess would be 1.5-.5%) 3% is typically a NA engine number. The turbo changes things up completely and should mostly be able to compensate for the change in air density. There will still be some loss, but it depends on how dialed back things are to begin with and how responsive the wastegate/VGT technology is. Spool and overall responsiveness is usually impacted more than final output at altitude on a turbo setup...

Understood and it does compensate for some loss, but it can't overcome absolute air pressure, 14.7psi at Sea Level and 10 psi at 10000ft elevation, it's going to lose a lot of boost dropping over 1psi atmospheric pressure every 2500ft increase in elevation...you can tell the difference for sure...especially on low HP engines that are already marginal and pulling at their max...

Variable Geometry Turbo's don't usually have a Wastegate, the ability to vary the geometry eliminated the need for a Wastegate...

Oxygen percentage will remain the same at 20.9% at 10,000ft, but less of that is available due to the atmospheric pressure loss (14.7 down to 10.1psi) to humans and machines...

[Orangecrush]

Originally Posted by hook47

Power loss with a turbo engine doesn't happen till 10 - 12,000 feet, IIRC. I'll second what the "Crusher" said, anticipate hills and you can maintain a higher speed. Once you slow down, you can really slow down!

Oh great, now I’ll have to change my screen name. 🤣

[wfo9]

So I finally traveled yesterday to look at these...

I walked away a bit more confused about what direction to go..

They are all nice.

But we were blown away by how nice the the inside of the Renegade Verona LE was. It was a huge step up on the inside. But also a big step up in price. I would probably still be sold on it, but it is quite a bit heavier compared to the dx3 I was looking at (36FK) 28,710 vs 24,594... , that's 4k... a good size car difference in weight and was a bit shocking... It's also 40' long and even though the wheelbase is significantly longer @309" vs 268" the overhang in the rear ends up being almost exactly the same between it and the dynamax 36FK.

The force was also great and totally adequate and the dx3 was right in the middle. There was a lightly used 2017 dx3 that would probably be a great deal, but it does not have the cab over bunk, and in the 36FK floor-plan with theater seats replacing couch.. there is no place to sleep besides the bedroom.

Does the dream dinette turn into any type of usable bed. It seemed too small to bother for a full size person, but I forgot to try it out.

Anyway... I'm very undecided at this point.

[FOURWHL]

Usable bed? Yes. Full size person? No. Think toddler or dog imo.

The needing the cabover without the sleeper couch makes sense to me.

[Orangecrush]

Does the dream dinette turn into any type of usable bed. It seemed too small to bother for a full size person, but I forgot to try it out.

Anyway... I'm very undecided at this point.

Yup, sure does but unless your guests are a family of dwarfs, it’s about useless.

On a serious note, you hit it on the head, the DX3 is a very good happy medium between the Force and Remegade in price, size and features.


Mark

[mikew968]

No overhead bunk in the Renegade Verona and LE. That pretty much seals the deal for me.

[wfo9]

Originally Posted by mikew968

No overhead bunk in the Renegade Verona and LE. That pretty much seals the deal for me.

But that LE fit and finish is something to see. Just not sure if the weight that comes with it is worth it.

[Orangecrush]

If you’re looking for sleeping arrangements, it seems the only way out is to have a sofa bed or the overhead bunk. (If I remember correctly, even the bunk beds are short in length)

Clearly the DX3 is not meant for four adults.


Mark

[mikew968]

DX3 can sleep 2 in overhead bunk, 2 on pull out sofa and 2 in king bed. Plus a child in the dinette

[LTZ470]

Originally Posted by Orangecrush

If you’re looking for sleeping arrangements, it seems the only way out is to have a sofa bed or the overhead bunk. (If I remember correctly, even the bunk beds are short in length)

Clearly the DX3 is not meant for four adults.


Mark

The cabover bunk is definitely large enough (long) for two adults easily...probably 6'3" or less...but I can easily sleep there and also my son and his wife...the kiddos love it, and all four were up there playing games, 2 X 15 year olds one 6' and one 5'7", a 13 yr old and an 8 yr old...they played for hours...

[Orangecrush]

Originally Posted by LTZ470

The cabover bunk is definitely large enough (long) for two adults easily...probably 6'3" or less...but I can easily sleep there and also my son and his wife...the kiddos love it, and all four were up there playing games, 2 X 15 year olds one 6' and one 5'7", a 13 yr old and an 8 yr old...they played for hours...

I keep forgetting about the cabover bunk because I don't have it. I've been told by several people that the sofa couch sucks.

I need to check out someone's overhead bunk setup, that might be a happy medium. Is it possible to convert a non bunk to a bunk or is the tv in the way?

Mark

[mikew968]

I doubt you could convert a non bunk as the roof line over the cab is lower and more streamlined on a non bunk

[Orangecrush]

Originally Posted by mikew968

I doubt you could convert a non bunk as the roof line over the cab is lower and more streamlined on a non bunk

Are you sure? All the DX3's I've looked at look the same. Perhaps I just haven't seen one with a bunk....


Mark