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Old 01-28-2016, 11:46 AM   #1
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Warranty Problem

I asked the Dynamax Warranty Manager to provide the name, phone number and email address of Dynamx's COO to discuss a dispute we're having over a warranty issue, which he did not do. But I'm told that this person does monitor this forum so I'll try to communicate this way.

We have a membrane type roof and have had problems with the staples under the membrane popping up under the membrane and causing some perforation of the membrane. I took the unit to a Forest River Dealer to correct the problem. I don't get up on roofs but had the roof inspected by another Forest River Dealer while having other issues addressed this past Monday and they told me that there were lots of staples popping up over the roof. It occurs to me that this is not only a problem with these staples perforating the roof membrane, but I assume the staples are there to hold the roof together. If the staples are coming out it seems to me that is ample evidence that the structure is failing.

BTW, this unit is currently under Forest River's warranty of one year.

Both the Forest River dealer who did the work in August and the Forest River dealer who inspected the roof Monday apparently agree that the solution is to replace the staples with screws. The Dynamax Warranty Manager chose to approve a fix in August that included taking up the membrane just around the edges, replace some staples with screws and then glue that membrane down again. That may well have corrected the problem that existed then. But it did not prevent more staples from popping up and they did.

The Dynamax Warranty Manager's reply to the Forest River Dealer Monday was: "
Customer States DAVE CALLED AND SPOKE TO MATT SWIHART AND HE OK' ALL REPAIRS: THE ROOF MEMBRANE IS LOOSE IN SEVERAL SPOTS. REMOVED THE ROOF TO SIDEWALL FEATURE STRIP ON BOTH SIDES OF THE RV.PEELED BACK THE ROOF ON BOTH SIDES OF THE CAMPER TO EXPOSE THE ROOF RADIUS. FOUND STAPLES WERE POPPING LOOSE. REPLACED THE STAPLES WITH SCREWS, THEN GLUED THE ROOF BACK IN PLACE. REINSTALLED THE FEATURE STRIP, INSTALLED SCREW COVER OVER FEATURE STRIP. SEALED MOLDING AS REQUIRED.




From Warranty Manager to me this morning:


"The above quoted text is from a claim last August in which I approved 21 hours for what sounds like the same repair. I cannot approve this to be done a second time. My suggestion is that if the staples are not coming through the roof, and with the additional sealant, if it is not leaking to leave well enough alone. You could get into a lot more problems tearing into the roof."


I responded: "
I don't know what the "Customer States:" refers to and I was not privy to that conversation. You and Dave in Amsterdam apparently came to some half measures response to the staple problem and they either did not completely repair the problem or it has evolved. Staples have come through the membrane and have been patched. I spent my time yesterday traveling 60 miles round trip to get you more pictures that clearly show the problems or you would be saying that they do not. The shoddy workmanship still exists. The amount of time spent on the repair has no bearing on rather or not the repair was adequate. Please approve a repair deserving of the reputation of Dynamax and Forest River or send me the name, telephone number and email address of Dynamx's COO by tomorrow morning. "


The response I got this morning was: "

The “customer states” part is the dealer relaying the complaint of issue the customer relays to them. I paid the 21 hour claim line based on the conversation Alpin Haus had with the previous warranty manager before his departure. When Forest River pays a claim of that kind of time, we expect it to be done correctly. We do not warranty an RV dealers repairs, if we pay for it and it needs to be redone, we would expect the repair facility to stand behind their work. So when we get a new claim that states staples are popping through, and we paid approximately $3,000 to the original repair facility, you are now asking me to cover under warranty a repair facilities repair, which I cannot do. The original claim was that staples were popping and they were replaced with screws which does not appear to be the case. So it appears that they took the money and did not do the repair or did not do it properly. The time paid to a dealer does reflect on whether or not the repair was adequate, it is a time they quoted us to make the necessary repairs, which did not happen.

With it being a rubber roof, it does not need to be totally removed, it can be patched and be just as good. Patching the rubber roof is a standard industry repair and will not affect the integrity of the roof or any items moving forward."


I had no input into the type of repair done and was told be other dealers before and after this being done that they would never have agreed to this type of repair. The earlier dealer and Dynamx's Warranty Manager came to that agreement without my input. I assume the dealer did what Dynamax told them to do. The problem that existed when the warranty work was done has apparently evolved. Its no less a problem now than it was now and the purchaser of a new, high end RV should not have to expect that the construction method with come apart and cause holes to appera in the roof material. BTW I'm now 1200 miles from the dealer who first addressed this problem.



Again, I'm asking that this problem be corrected in a way that reflect's the reputation of Dynamax and Forest River.



Thanks,


Harold Stone




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Old 01-28-2016, 02:54 PM   #2
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You're in touch with the right people. Matt forwarded me the email exchange. I'll have to look into the initial claim and pictures and the new claim/pictures.

It is not really "ample evidence that the structure is failing". Staples are not holding the roof together. There is simply some sheet metal that goes from the wall to the roof to make it a nice pretty radius instead of a 90 degree corner. Structurally its fine.

It is unfortunate that the approved fix (that we as the mfg paid for) was either not done or not done properly, but instead of the dealer catching the heat it comes back on the mfg. However if the dealer is refusing to correct their work, then it really is up to us to coerce them to repair it or charge them back for a new repair if in fact they are a current dealer for us.

I'll track down the pictures and have Matt get in touch with you and/or the dealer.
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Old 01-28-2016, 04:29 PM   #3
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The staples are providing a function, esthetics or structural, and the fact that they are coming loose would indicate to me that that function is becoming jeopardized. That is besides the fact that they have caused some perforation of the roof membrane. It was important enough to repair before and its important enough to repair now. I doubt you would be proud of workmanship and design that requires a membrane to be constantly inspected and patched nor is that something that anyone of us would accept in a new, high end product.


I have no leverage with your dealer network and I had no input on how the work was done in August. I have no way of knowing whether they did the work you paid for because I don't know what they were told to do. But if they did what they were told to do and the problem has evolved to the point that more staples have come loose then it occurs to me that their repair is less at fault then the procedure that they were told to use. I don't know how you'd be able to know that they did or did not replace all of the loose staples with screws when they were apparently not instructed to replace all of the staples with screws.


Thank you for your time and reply,


Harold Stone
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Old 01-28-2016, 05:46 PM   #4
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As I said, its up to us to get the dealer to stand behind their work. I'll dig into it further.
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Old 02-05-2016, 01:45 PM   #5
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Its been a week and we've heard nothing.


I'll reiterate that I don't see how you can blame the previous repair for current problems unless the previous dealer was instructed to replace all staples with screws and did not. It stands to reason that if some of the staples popped up and they were replaced with screws that other existing staples popped up to cause the current problem. If the previous dealer did not replace all of the screws and you authorized that as the repair then how can I trust that they will now do what they're supposed to do and will you warranty their new repair?


Yesterday we had an all day rain and sometime in the afternoon we noticed water dripping from a light fixture over the refrigerator. Now we apparently have water getting under the roof membrane from old perforations where the patch didn't work or new perforations that have not yet been found. .


The remaining staples need to be replaced with screws.


The damaged membrane needs to be replaced. Otherwise we may not know when a patch has come loose or a spot made weak by protruding staples finally forms a hole allowing more moisture damage.


The roof needs to be inspected for existing moisture from a roof leak that might eventually cause mold, rot or further water damage to the interior of the RV.


Please reply that you have notified the current dealer to complete the repairs necessary to honor the warranty, to make our RV as it was intended to be, or that you will not honor the warranty in which case I would ask for the name and phone number/email address of the COO of Forest River so that I may appeal your decision.


Thank you,


Harold Stone
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Old 02-05-2016, 02:19 PM   #6
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Warranty Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
As I said, its up to us to get the dealer to stand behind their work. I'll dig into it further.

Bcclemens. I am totally independent and have no vested interest in this matter, but I was reading this thread and see it is like a lot of others I have read on here and have experienced myself.

I do not believe that the FR divisions ever put themselves in the owners shoes when looking at these issues that develop from warranty issues.

FR will only allow authorized dealers to do work. Most of the time these dealers are not the good warranty dealers. For the most part the consumer(rv owner) is at the mercy of FR and the dealer. 50% or more the work that is done at the dealers we are told to take it to is subpar or worse. They either do a terrible job or do not do it correctly in the first place. Besides that nothing is ever related or verified with the rv owner.

These are people's homes, and if someone did shoddy work at my home I would not even let them step foot in my place again to fix their shoddy work.

I have the same feeling with my camper,and I am sure the OP feels the same way. If the dealer did not fix it right the first time there is no guarantee that they will do it right when it is taken back.

It's like sending your steak back to the kitchen you don't know if they spit in your food or not.

I empathize with the OP because similar dealer issues I had with mine and instead of really fixing the issue they damaged more. FR wanted me to take it back for them to fix and I refused because it would still be done poorly. If the dealer did not have attention to detail the first time he won't the second time.

Each time we haul in the trailer to the dealer it is a loss in both time and money and loss of enjoyment of the purchase. I hope you will do right by the OP because your future customers do read these post and listen to word of mouth. Good luck Mr. Stone.
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Old 02-05-2016, 02:25 PM   #7
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Thank you mac
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Old 02-05-2016, 02:30 PM   #8
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And mac, you are 100% right. There are so many of us that we have only hope many times we seek service.
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Old 02-05-2016, 03:17 PM   #9
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While I appreciate the moral support rmac, I don't agree that "FR divisions never put themselves in the owners shoe". That is exactly what we're doing and what I have always done. In this situation before I can do anything I have to figure out what we're dealing with. As I said "It is up to US (Dynamax) to get the dealer to stand behind their work". I'm not kicking the can or passing the buck...I'm saying it is on us to make it right one way or another.

Also, that we only allow "authorized dealers" is also not true. As long as you do things in advance, you'll find several customers on here that have used dealers not in our network. In many cases we do not have accounts so you must pay in advance and be reimbursed. As long as you get pre-authorization I've never seen an issue.

Now, having said that. I do not want to authorize another repair that does not fix the root cause of the problem. So what I am trying to do is get pictures of the original issue to determine if the dealer, did what they said they did (and that fix is not sufficient) or just hammered the staples back in and moved on or they did actually put in screws in and this is in another section. We were waiting on the original repair dealer to get us the repair pictures and I was told today they are unable to produce them.

In light of that, I have instructed warranty to authorize the repair and to have pictures taken during the process. That way we know A: that the new dealer is doing what we pay them to do and B: if the repair was not done correctly the first time, we will charge back the dealer from the initial repair.

In any event your concern is to have a roof that functions properly and it is our goal to give you just that.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:40 PM   #10
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I have talked with my current repairing dealer and have been told that they have received authority to replace the roof membrane, replace the staples with screws and to inspect for and correct any water damage. Thank you bclemmons.


I'll second that you will allow other than franchised Forest River Dealers to do warranty work. We've had work done by an independent dealer several months ago that I had to pay for and have been reimbursed for for about $1000 and I'm waiting for a check for a couple thousand dollars that I paid for some work more recently.


This RV has caused me to lose a lot of sleep over the problems we've had and I've often thought that I made a mistake spending this much money for something that is no longer being manufactured. But it is so unique to the rest of the market and the way it's designed is so usable we really love it and I am mystified as to why it didn't take hold. There's nothing out there that we'd rather have.


Harold Stone
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