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Old 05-01-2016, 08:09 AM   #1
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Electrical problem - Campground or new 5er

So we are out on our maiden trip with our new 36QBOK and are doing the normal shakedown. One of the first issues that popped up is that we cannot keep 50 amp service to the unit. When we plug in our 50 amp cord we get power for 3-5 seconds then it acts like we unplug. It's difficult to describe because no breakers are popping, no fuses blowing, no other indications other that the 110 items just stop working and everything else reverts to battery power. So initially I just reset the campground breakers but it repeated. Then I unplugged from both ends and checked to make sure I'm getting good seating and contact on the plugs. Same result. This is with little to no draw, nothing really turned on yet since I don't even have the slides out.

So then I try my 30 amp adapter. So the only change I make is adding the adapter and plugging into the 30 amp service. I didn't change my 50 amp cord or anything else (I'm a one change at a time type troubleshooter). And presto, we haven't lost power since. So I'm thinking campground problem with their 50 amp service.

But then the wife reminds me that at home we couldn't keep the unit on house power because it kept tripping the gfci protecting the outdoor outlet. In fact just before we left, the gfci died completely (after a half dozen resets) and couldn't be reset anymore.

So..... Did the new 5ver kill the gfci and is the problem here at the campground or are the two completely unrelated? Maybe that gfci was weak and going to fail anyway and maybe the campground does have a problem with the 50 amp service. I'm just not a big believer in coincidence...
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:17 AM   #2
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The thing your missing is at HOME, you said you plugged into a GFE protected home circuit. You CANNOT put your trailer into a GFE protected outlet as the trailer already has a GFE protected outlets in it. Can't plug into a GFE home outlet and expect your GRE protected trailer to work correctly. IE- GFE into GFE doesn't work!!!!!
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:21 AM   #3
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I don't think he meant he was plugged in to a gfci at home. I believe he meant the gfci in the coach was tripping. Need a meter to start testing some points.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:26 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Toddupton View Post
I don't think he meant he was plugged in to a gfci at home. I believe he meant the gfci in the coach was tripping. Need a meter to start testing some points.
Nope, he said the "outdoor outlet." Meaning the reset protecting his home's outdoor outlet was kicking off.
This thread calls for a bona fide electrician to comment. So I'll keep out of it from here on.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:41 AM   #5
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This is an easy one... What is the error code on your EMS-PT50C? This error code will tell us exactly what the problem is so we can help you fix it.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:43 AM   #6
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do you have a meter, have the camp ground check the pedestal, make sure you have both legs of the 50 on the pedestal receptacle, and reset all your breakers in the unit just to make sure, and go from there
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:45 AM   #7
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I would bet that the two issues are not related. First off, the only way he could have connected at home to a GFI protected circuit is with the 30 Amp adapter (and a 20 amp adapter to boot!), which appears to be working fine on the pedestal at the park. Home GFIs have a definite life and it also appears that it did die. GFI to GFI is generally a problem anyway.

as far as the park problem is concerned. It stops working and NOTHING HAS POPPED? That seems really strange unless the receptacle is heating up or something. Sure they could have a weak breaker, but then it would have popped!

There is really nothing different about using a 30 amp adapter than using a 50 amp plug, from the TT or RV side. (of course there is less available current, but all connectors, cables and breakers are used for both.)
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:46 AM   #8
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oh, didn't know he had one

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchman12001 View Post
This is an easy one... What is the error code on your EMS-PT50C? This error code will tell us exactly what the problem is so we can help you fix it.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:55 AM   #9
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Shhhhhhh,,,, wait for it......
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:07 AM   #10
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A multi-meter wood be helpful at this point.


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Old 05-01-2016, 09:11 AM   #11
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Well there you go. Normally at home we plugged our old trailer into a generator. Many times we plugged it into the outdoor receptacle on the house but never had problems with the gfci.

This time I hadn't pulled the generator and gotten fuel yet so I just used the same receptacle. Since we were only using lights and occasionally moving a slide in of out I wasn't too worried about pulling any real amp load.

So now I'll just always run it off the generator at home to eliminate the gfci issue.

Since it's the maiden I don't have a surge/electrical protector yet. My old surge protect was a 30 amp unit. I'm sure that everyone has everything installed and ready on their maiden but I'm just a slacker in that respect crunchman.

Scott is right, the reason I was a bit confused is because nothing is popping here at the campground. The breakers don't trip at the pedestal, and nothing is amiss on my panel. With nothing changing except adding a 50/30 converter plug I'm not sure where the problem is.

Hammer I would love to check with my meter but I brought along a just about every other tool but somehow failed to bring along my meter! I guess I'll just go back to chasing down all my water leaks and save the electrical for another day.
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:28 AM   #12
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Well there you go...
My bet is that the 50 amp receptacle has a weak or bad neutral connection. That is the only way you could lose power without popping anything. The same neutral is used for both sides of the 50 amp.

Obviously the 30 amp receptacle doesn't have a bad neutral connection. Your adapter is using your 50 amp plug anyway, so the problem can't be on your side!
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:33 AM   #13
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Are you positive the unit doesn't have a factory installed surge or power protector?

I have nothing else to offer, but my trailer is plugged into a 15A GFI outlet and has been for the last week here at the house. We've used both the 12V and 120V systems with no issues, and we use this outlet every time before we leave to start the fridge on electric.
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSchleder View Post
The thing your missing is at HOME, you said you plugged into a GFE protected home circuit. You CANNOT put your trailer into a GFE protected outlet as the trailer already has a GFE protected outlets in it. Can't plug into a GFE home outlet and expect your GRE protected trailer to work correctly. IE- GFE into GFE doesn't work!!!!!
BZZZT....wrong.

In the absence of anything wrong, "series" GFE's work just fine.

We plug our TT into a GFE outlet on the exterior of our house....momma then uses a vacuum plugged into the GFE in the TT.

No problemo.
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Old 05-01-2016, 12:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Toddupton View Post
I don't think he meant he was plugged in to a gfci at home. I believe he meant the gfci in the coach was tripping. Need a meter to start testing some points.
OP specifically stated the gfci protecting the outdoor outlet.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:51 PM   #16
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I have found sometimes the compground breakers are weak. Also the 30 amp is a different breaker. good luck
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:57 PM   #17
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My money is on the campground 50 amp at the pedestal. With the high number of uses and a lot of older campgrounds out there it's common.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:00 PM   #18
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50A dropping after 3-5 seconds and GFCI

This is an interesting one so I am going to jump in and give you my thoughts on this.
I like this forum because it lets me help people and I learn even more than I help.
I am not an expert on trailers, but I have one now and I am learning.
I only have a Stealth SS-2216 Limited 27’ toy hauler pulled with my 2008 Sequoia that I put my Goldwing and my wife’s scooter into.
We plan to see as much of the USA as possible.
We are doing a ~10,000 mile trip from San Diego to Alaska in June and July this year.
I am an electrical engineer and I have designed and built many electrical systems in high tech world in the past 40 years and I have done a few houses too, but I am learning about trailer electrical.

I interpret this posting as the house outside GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt) tripping and I do not think it is related to the 50A service dropping within 3-5 seconds at the camp site. And yes they have a limited qty of trips before they die.
GFCI trips when there is any current flowing through the ground connection causing a differential between Ground and Neutral. It detects even 4-5 mA (1/1000th of an amp) of imbalance in the current flow between L1 and Neutral(Common) that travels through the Ground connection. So you can have GFCI to GFCI path that will work if you have solid ground connections to both. But it is even more sensitive to trip with 2 GFCI’s as there is more opportunity for ground path differences.

I think this is not related to the 50A dropping after 3-5 seconds. The campsite power pedestal is usually fed by one main 4-wire 50A service and has a subpanel with a 30A and a 50A outlet with 30A and 50A circuit breakers that tap from the same source. If this is the case then if the 30A service is working from the main 50A service, then that main has to be on and OK. It is most likely a defective 50A CB or connection within the 50A tap off of the main. The 50A CB not tripping does not mean that the CB is good.

I hope this helps.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:12 PM   #19
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Circuit breakers are not really designed to be switches, but in a campground they can be turned on and off several times a week and not always gently. In addition they are subject to moisture and insects. I would suspect the pedestal if the 30A service is working well. This is a good reason to have a good surge protector/ circuit protection device. It is also the reason why you can have problems at a campsite that worked fine when you were in the same site 5 weeks ago.
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Old 05-02-2016, 08:30 AM   #20
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There's no reason to ever forget to bring a multimeter with you in your rig. Watch in magazines and newspaper ads for a Harbor Freight coupon where they're giving away a multimeter with any purchase and buy a $0.49 snap-off blade knife, usually kept at the register. If you can't wait for the freebee coupon, the meters range in price from $2.99 to $4.99 depending on the current sale price.

As an aside, I just burned out three of them (out of a much larger stock I have) by running over 13A through the meter while it was set on the 200ma scale. This was not intentional and was caused by an intermittent short in the DC power distribution box I was working on. The box was drawing around 35ma then suddenly would start drawing over 13A then would mysteriously return to 35ma. It took a while but I did finally track down the problem. I had placed the box, without its mounting brackets on top of my (closed) computer and the bus bar attachment bolts on the back of the case were being shorted by the, unknown to me, conductive black paint on the back of the screen. When installed, those attachment bolts will be protected by the wall and will be inaccessible so I never thought of insulating them.

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