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Old 03-01-2014, 10:08 PM   #271
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I am kicking myself that I was blinded by the niceness of the management....those guys were great! The people are not bad folks, they are hard working guys and gals doing their jobs the best they've been trained. Lots of newbies, not much of an understanding of the "big picture". This was very obvious in the repairs, line workers only knew their small portion of the build. Repairs that could have been made and satisfactorily solved our issues were instead botched. Now the repairs would be much more extensive and more difficult (I assume). The drivers side nicks, window valance cuts, and exterior door scratches were damage done at the factory. So many repairs eventually make the unit rebuilt and the value sure can't be repaired!!
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:45 PM   #272
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Did they tell you why there are cracks in the exterior? This is especially alarming to me...
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:18 PM   #273
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It just hit me there is something missing from this whole story. It's like the elephant in the room but it is invisible. There is a giant piece of information or knowledge of something going on behind the scenes, internal Forest River / Berkshire Hathaway inside stuff, that explains this. A standard, rule, code of operation that they have to follow.

Start with the fact that Forest River does not have an adequate system or manpower to fix broken stuff. They share the build teams with the repair department. Screwing things together does not give you the knowledge to analyze a defect and repair it. Especially true when outsourced systems get involved. The tools, systems, and knowledge to build an RV is no where close to what is needed to fix it.This is an incredibly important point.

Then, any company worth their salt that has manufactured a product that is such a lemon as this one that they just cannot fix would after a while, and long before this mess escalated, simply take the hit and replace it. Word getting around about high build failure rates would embarrass them and equate to customers lost. You can't hide this sloppy management in today's world, BUT, today's world of instant knowledge via the internet is the reason this is happening. I am betting the lemons coming out of Forest River or all of BH's RVs are far more than this forum realizes. And just like in court cases where precedence is set, Forest River does NOT want word getting around that if you are having big problems with your unit that they just can't fix, they would replace it.

I believe that they really want to make it right. The people that they meet at Goshen really wanted a better result for them but it just can't be done due to the companies operating policy, no new units for lemons. They walk right up to the edge but have to about face and pull back.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:42 PM   #274
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I've pondered your point myself, Evereddie. I've even searched this forum, trying to find an instance where someone actually got a new unit in exchange for a true lemon.

Didn't find it. You're definitely on point about setting precedent.

I've also researched, not just on this forum, information about Flagstaff's factory facilities and read that they do not do repair in the same building production is done, that they have a separate facility for repairs. Are the employees of that repair facility properly trained to analyze, diagnose and repair the product? That I do not know.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:45 PM   #275
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I think you may be on too something Evereddie.

Not to degrade anybody, but there is a HUGE difference in skill between an assembly line worker and say, a lead repair technician that is well versed in many if not all aspects of a vehicle/trailer.
Anybody can be trained to shoot a couple screws in here or hang something there, the same way, on every unit.
But somebody that can actually assess a problem, diagnose, figure out a solution to resolve it, in an area that might not have a repair manual or schematics, is going to be hard to find, and will cost considerably more to attain and keep than somebody doing a repetitious job.
This is something that FR need to have. Even if its just 2-4 guys that would work with or for multiple lines or makes. Maybe even have these guys travel to dealerships and work on some of these issues instead of incurring the tranportation of unit costs back to the manufacturer, and also keep the manufacturing lines free to do what they do best.
Now this wouldnt be cheap, but I think that it would more than make up the cost with not tying up the guys on the line as well as quality repairs.(done once)
But FR didnt ask me, but having been working for years in the auto collision industry, I have learned how to achieve quality repairs, with minimal comebacks or redo's and still be profitable doing it- heck how else would I be able to afford one of these
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:51 PM   #276
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Looks like weezer beat me to it, in not so many words, while I was typing. Great minds....? Maybe?

oops. forgot to check mark that stupid box again!
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:55 PM   #277
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Some things can not be 'repaired'... they must be replaced. If the part does not fit, if the side wall or front or where ever does not fit it must be replaced.... but it seems that the 'solution' is to pump the edges with tons and tons of caulking to cover up the MANUFACTURE errors.

Looking at the number of people on this site at this time it is 1,500 people.... 1,500 people are seeing the Forest River does on occasion produce Junk. Dozens of good units... thousands more that the Dealers must fix from Forest River Factory errors and some that are just POSs..... Forest Rivers soluction to this junk unit is not to fix it right, but to sell it to some other unsuspecting soul..... Disgusting.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:58 AM   #278
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I think Turbs and me, just be "ridin' for the brand". Not a bad thing in my opinion!
Hopefully others will too!!
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:17 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Weezer View Post
I've pondered your point myself, Evereddie. I've even searched this forum, trying to find an instance where someone actually got a new unit in exchange for a true lemon.

Didn't find it. You're definitely on point about setting precedent.

I've also researched, not just on this forum, information about Flagstaff's factory facilities and read that they do not do repair in the same building production is done, that they have a separate facility for repairs. Are the employees of that repair facility properly trained to analyze, diagnose and repair the product? That I do not know.
Maybe this one
Frustration with our LaCrosse 318BHS
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:50 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by dleighb View Post
I am kicking myself that I was blinded by the niceness of the management....those guys were great! The people are not bad folks, they are hard working guys and gals doing their jobs the best they've been trained. Lots of newbies, not much of an understanding of the "big picture". This was very obvious in the repairs, line workers only knew their small portion of the build. Repairs that could have been made and satisfactorily solved our issues were instead botched. Now the repairs would be much more extensive and more difficult (I assume). The drivers side nicks, window valance cuts, and exterior door scratches were damage done at the factory. So many repairs eventually make the unit rebuilt and the value sure can't be repaired!!
Maybe the folks that build or fix the units look at it differently. Its a job I need my check / I dont give a crap attitude / no pride / I just want to get home to play XBOX / the company sucks and dont pay well / screw it let the dealer take care of it. Its not my job. All the time management try to figure out how to make it right without loosing there shorts.
Oh its tour time...everyone you know the drill. Its tough to get good help!
Certainly there not constantly good at what they do! Shameful to see this kind of workmanship. Made in America should count for something!! The rv industry needs a big kick in the ass!!
Hope this all works out for you guys!!!! Shame on Sabre for the crap you gone threw with this pos!
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