Mad Momma - Sabre 36QBOK returned to factory

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by Platokidd

Maybe this one
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...bhs-52731.html

Yeah, I looked at that one. I didn't consider that one "being made whole" because it appears they paid notes, insurance and storage facility rent for at least *nine months* while their dealer gave them a runaround, *then* they got a 2014 model of the same TT, and had to kick in some $$ to boot in the trade in. Then they evidently had to start all over again with financing and notes with all that money applied to the old TT down the toilet due to *no fault of their own*.

Note; I was trying to go by posting dates of the OP. I could be off + or - a month or two, but still.....

Just Sad

I consider all these threads part of the RV learning curve for me and DH. After reading all the painful posts (and they are difficult to read...these people are going through hell at the hands of their dealer and manufacturer) I'm at the point that if our new 5er "goes south" on us, we've discussed what our game plan will be.

If I wasn't so close to retirement age, I'd look in to becoming some sort of RV buyer's advocate...an arbitrator/negotiator of sorts, somewhat like a patient advocate. I'm serious about that. I read these threads and just shake my head. The industry vs. buyers are in desperate need of someone (or a team) like this.

One thing we all should take heed of is this: If your unit starts going south, document, document, document! Start a binder (don't trust electronic files, computers crash), print everything out, document with pictures (again, NOT electronic versions, print them out!), print out emails, both yours and the dealer/manufacturer's emails. Keep a log of all phone calls, what was discussed, etc. (ask that any commitments made/offered by dealer/manufacturer persons during a telecon be backed up with email) DATES! Document expenses; insurance, payments, storage facility rental, transportation costs, even long distance phone calls, time lost from work, etc. In doing this you become your *own* advocate. Be assertive!

Can ya tell I'm a bit detail oriented? Some might even call it OCD. But being OCD is a good thing, when you're a David going up against a Goliath.

[Platokidd]

Originally Posted by Weezer

Yeah, I looked at that one. I didn't consider that one "being made whole" because it appears they paid notes, insurance and storage facility rent for at least *nine months* while their dealer gave them a runaround, *then* they got a 2014 model of the same TT, and had to kick in some $$ to boot in the trade in. Then they evidently had to start all over again with financing and notes with all that money applied to the old TT down the toilet due to *no fault of their own*.

Note; I was trying to go by posting dates of the OP. I could be off + or - a month or two, but still.....

Just Sad

I consider all these threads part of the RV learning curve for me and DH. After reading all the painful posts (and they are difficult to read...these people are going through hell at the hands of their dealer and manufacturer) I'm at the point that if our new 5er "goes south" on us, we've discussed what our game plan will be.

If I wasn't so close to retirement age, I'd look in to becoming some sort of RV buyer's advocate...an arbitrator/negotiator of sorts, somewhat like a patient advocate. I'm serious about that. I read these threads and just shake my head. The industry vs. buyers are in desperate need of someone (or a team) like this.

One thing we all should take heed of is this: If your unit starts going south, document, document, document! Start a binder (don't trust electronic files, computers crash), print everything out, document with pictures (again, NOT electronic versions, print them out!), print out emails, both yours and the dealer/manufacturer's emails. Keep a log of all phone calls, what was discussed, etc. (ask that any commitments made/offered by dealer/manufacturer persons during a telecon be backed up with email) DATES! Document expenses; insurance, payments, storage facility rental, transportation costs, even long distance phone calls, time lost from work, etc. In doing this you become your *own* advocate. Be assertive!

Can ya tell I'm a bit detail oriented? Some might even call it OCD. But being OCD is a good thing, when you're a David going up against a Goliath.

I bet you be good at it to weezer! If Sabre dont do the right thing maybe a post on the BBB is in order. Forest river does have an A+ rating.

[Mad DADDY]

Originally Posted by Weezer

Yeah, I looked at that one. I didn't consider that one "being made whole" because it appears they paid notes, insurance and storage facility rent for at least *nine months* while their dealer gave them a runaround, *then* they got a 2014 model of the same TT, and had to kick in some $$ to boot in the trade in. Then they evidently had to start all over again with financing and notes with all that money applied to the old TT down the toilet due to *no fault of their own*.

Note; I was trying to go by posting dates of the OP. I could be off + or - a month or two, but still.....

Just Sad

I consider all these threads part of the RV learning curve for me and DH. After reading all the painful posts (and they are difficult to read...these people are going through hell at the hands of their dealer and manufacturer) I'm at the point that if our new 5er "goes south" on us, we've discussed what our game plan will be.

If I wasn't so close to retirement age, I'd look in to becoming some sort of RV buyer's advocate...an arbitrator/negotiator of sorts, somewhat like a patient advocate. I'm serious about that. I read these threads and just shake my head. The industry vs. buyers are in desperate need of someone (or a team) like this.

One thing we all should take heed of is this: If your unit starts going south, document, document, document! Start a binder (don't trust electronic files, computers crash), print everything out, document with pictures (again, NOT electronic versions, print them out!), print out emails, both yours and the dealer/manufacturer's emails. Keep a log of all phone calls, what was discussed, etc. (ask that any commitments made/offered by dealer/manufacturer persons during a telecon be backed up with email) DATES! Document expenses; insurance, payments, storage facility rental, transportation costs, even long distance phone calls, time lost from work, etc. In doing this you become your *own* advocate. Be assertive!

Can ya tell I'm a bit detail oriented? Some might even call it OCD. But being OCD is a good thing, when you're a David going up against a Goliath.

I think your Idea would be wonderful to be the middle man. I am sure FR is going to resolve our problem or at least I am hopeful. I still have have this voice in my head telling me I would rather see this camper be torn down at the plant to really figure out where the problem is. I don't believe the only thing is poor workmanship, there is some other things that make me think there is more going on than we can see. I think it would give FR a better Ideal on how to make things better for everyone. That's why I would rather be made whole and not push this off on someone else. I guess my morals are kicking in here. I sure wouldn't want to know the person that bought our new unit. I have to do what's best for my family and do what they suggest. Thank God I am a paper work junkie like you. I have binders and binders of emails and photos and dates of phone calls. I am well documented and have spent many hours on this camper. We will see what happens and hope for the best for everyone.

[Mad DADDY]

I have to ask a question. Is it normal for me to be taken completely out of the loop on what's going on with our camper. I have sent several emails and made several calls to our contact person and no reply. I was told by my dealer that he is working with upper management and would be handling things. I still feel that FR should still be in contact with me along with the dealer. I am in the total dark here. I think I should be hearing the words come out of FRs mouth also. This may be my OCD kicking in here but the bottom line here is, I want to be part of what's going on here and not depending on someone else to make my decisions for me

[Ford Idaho]

Originally Posted by Mad DADDY

I have to ask a question. Is it normal for me to be taken completely out of the loop on what's going on with our camper. I have sent several emails and made several calls to our contact person and no reply. I was told by my dealer that he is working with upper management and would be handling things. I still feel that FR should still be in contact with me along with the dealer. I am in the total dark here. I think I should be hearing the words come out of FRs mouth also. This may be my OCD kicking in here but the bottom line here is, I want to be part of what's going on here and not depending on someone else to make my decisions for me

Sounds like BS to me.
I'd be making a road trip ASAP!

[Platokidd]

Originally Posted by Mad DADDY

I have to ask a question. Is it normal for me to be taken completely out of the loop on what's going on with our camper. I have sent several emails and made several calls to our contact person and no reply. I was told by my dealer that he is working with upper management and would be handling things. I still feel that FR should still be in contact with me along with the dealer. I am in the total dark here. I think I should be hearing the words come out of FRs mouth also. This may be my OCD kicking in here but the bottom line here is, I want to be part of what's going on here and not depending on someone else to make my decisions for me

Because of the poor workmanship / quality your in this mess, so thats a fact.
One could only guess why they dont want to respond to you. Maybe they dont like your attitude on this mess or your posting on this forum.
Either way there reputation In my eyes has taken a big hit.
Yep like the other poster said its BS!!
Someone is going to get back to you Monday right?

[Mad DADDY]

Originally Posted by Platokidd

Because of the poor workmanship / quality your in this mess, so thats a fact.
One could only guess why they dont want to respond to you. Maybe the dont like your attitude on this mess or your posting on this forum.
Either way there reputation In my eyes has taken a big hit.
Yep like the other poster said its BS!!
Someone is going to get back to you Monday right?

The dealer is supposed to get with us Monday. He is the only one that has contact with FR at this time. I wish we were in the communication process. I hate not being part of this. Takes days to get any question answered because the dealer is the middle man and of course he has a business to run also and they always miss each other's calls. This is going to drag on forever.

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by Platokidd

I bet you be good at it to weezer! If Sabre dont do the right thing maybe a post on the BBB is in order. Forest river does have an A+ rating.

Yes, I was totally aware when I was posting about the 3rd party advocate, that the BBB is already somewhat a consumer advocate. But being such a large entity, the little man can get lost in the shuffle.

BBB will tell you upfront they have NO power to enforce anything. Nor would a 3rd party advocate for that matter. The person I'm describing would be more of a "tour guide" through the mine field of manufacturer/dealer warranty issues.

I don't mind admitting that reading some of these nightmare RV product threads gives me pause, makes me wonder what the hell DH and I got ourselves in to. And we aren't having any real issues *yet* with our Flagstaff. It boggles the mind to think what others who have problem child RVs are feeling! I also don't mind confessing that when I read these type threads I have to go look through, and over, our 5er once again, holding my breath and clamping my jaws until I'm satisfied that I've found nothing, and can exhale.

I need to stop reading this stuff or I'm going to wear out the steps and sliders while she's just sitting in our back yard!

But to the OPs of this thread, and those of you have serious issues with the same brand who seem to get lost in this thread, I care, and I feel compelled to "bear witness" to your frustration and disillusionment. There's nothing I can "do", per se, but I *can* "bear witness". Those are two very strong words....look them up.

I send positive thoughts that all of you are made so whole that you come out of this absolutely and without reserve....Brand Loyal!

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by Platokidd

I bet you be good at it to weezer! If Sabre dont do the right thing maybe a post on the BBB is in order. Forest river does have an A+ rating.

I thought I read here somewhere a month or so ago that FR isn't even a BBB member???

[cwblaylock]

Weezer,

You are correct. According to the BBB website Forest River Inc. is NOT a member of the BBB... That didn't stop us from opening a case though on our situation

[Weezer]

A search shows they aren't accredited, BUT....LOOK AT THIS!

Consumer Complaints for Forest River, Inc. (Corporate) - Northern Indiana BBB

Final Business Response
Contact Name and Title: ***** ***** - Service Manager

Forest River stands ready to honor the reimbursement for the tires Mr. ********* purchased. We will also reimburse for (two) RV loan payments. What we will need at this time is for Mr. ********* to forward a receipt for his tire purchase(s) and a copy of his loan document to validate his monthly payment. One we have these documents we will send Mr. ********* a standard release document to review and sign and return to us. We will issue payment via US mail with 14 days. At this time Mr. ********* is declining that his Forest River and his selling dealer perform repairs to his wheel well/sidewall of his travel trailer, we will consider this offer to assist closed. Documents can be mailed to: (or e-mailed - ******@forestriverinc.com

This is public record, BTW, and it's the first complaint listed on this web site. This is the first I've read of such accommodation (loan payment reimbursement).

Maybe it's time to get your local BBB involved MadDad and MadMom?

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by cwblaylock

Weezer,

You are correct. According to the BBB website Forest River Inc. is NOT a member of the BBB... That didn't stop us from opening a case though on our situation

X eleventy in light of what I just posted above!

And I just saved all that information for my "Buffy File".

[Brother Les]

Are you a Good Sams Member? They have an advocate line I think?
If you are not comfortable with the 'offer/out come'....as presented to you.... don't sign anything until you consulted an advocate group or lawyer. Yes.... it is way pasted time to have a lawyer involved in this sordid affair. You have been shafted in the product that you bought in good faith in the first place and with all of the time, effort and money and heart ack and worry involved you should be compensated above and beyond of what the 'dealer' is going to he says, 'for you'. You should be directly compensated by Forest River Sabre for time, money, and emotional distress from a company that makes hollow promises and a shoddy and unsafe product. You never got what you paid for, and worse yet, someone else will buy this POS and be stuck with it.

Shameful, and despicable. You should have had a lawyer on speed dial months ago.

[Mad DADDY]

Originally Posted by Brother Les

Are you a Good Sams Member? They have an advocate line I think?
If you are not comfortable with the 'offer/out come'....as presented to you.... don't sign anything until you consulted an advocate group or lawyer. Yes.... it is way pasted time to have a lawyer involved in this sordid affair. You have been shafted in the product that you bought in good faith in the first place and with all of the time, effort and money and heart ack and worry involved you should be compensated above and beyond of what the 'dealer' is going to he says, 'for you'. You should be directly compensated by Forest River Sabre for time, money, and emotional distress from a company that makes hollow promises and a shoddy and unsafe product. You never got what you paid for, and worse yet, someone else will buy this POS and be stuck with it.

Shameful, and despicable. You should have had a lawyer on speed dial months ago.

We do have a attorney involved, the same one that handles our companies interest. We are waiting to find out what is being put on the table. As of now we are just going by what our dealer is telling us and it sounds promising for us but again we have seen nothing in writing or have not heard a Word from FR so at this point we are in a holding pattern until Monday ( that's what our dealer is telling us ). We hope to see this in writing Monday if the weather isn't to bad like they are talking. We aren't sure how our bank is going to handle this either, that's another can of worms that needs to be explored. I have not approached our bank yet not knowing what the outcome is going to be. I am about fed up with the whole thing. This is way to much stress and time being put into something that is supposed to be fun. We are in the middle of a home purchase currently and if the bank wants this loan to be paid off and a new loan opened we aren't sure we are able to do that at this time because our loan officer said not to run any credit bureaus until the home closes because they will run another credit report before closing. Things just keep getting better and better with this camper!!!!!!

[Platokidd]

Originally Posted by Mad DADDY

We do have a attorney involved, the same one that handles our companies interest. We are waiting to find out what is being put on the table. As of now we are just going by what our dealer is telling us and it sounds promising for us but again we have seen nothing in writing or have not heard a Word from FR so at this point we are in a holding pattern until Monday ( that's what our dealer is telling us ). We hope to see this in writing Monday if the weather isn't to bad like they are talking. We aren't sure how our bank is going to handle this either, that's another can of worms that needs to be explored. I have not approached our bank yet not knowing what the outcome is going to be. I am about fed up with the whole thing. This is way to much stress and time being put into something that is supposed to be fun. We are in the middle of a home purchase currently and if the bank wants this loan to be paid off and a new loan opened we aren't sure we are able to do that at this time because our loan officer said not to run any credit bureaus until the home closes because they will run another credit report before closing. Things just keep getting better and better with this camper!!!!!!

You have a lawyer, maybe they do too.
Could be why there not talking at this time.
FYI Im on your side and hope for the best

[Taranwanderer]

I'm thinking it might soon be time to take the "Animal House" approach to this camper:

"Tell you what, we'll swear that you were doing a great job taking care of your Forest River camper. But, you parked it out back last night, and this morning it was gone! D-Day takes care of the wreck, your insurance company buys you a new camper."

"Will that work?"

"It'll work better than the truth."

Seriously, I'm really sorry you guys are going through this. I'm currently in the market for another Forest River product, and this whole thread is giving me pause...

[B and B]

Originally Posted by Weezer

I'm just speaking for myself here;

Yep, there *are* thousand and thousands of Sabre owners out there, and for me it's not so much the product that gives me pause regarding purchasing a Sabre. It's the *lack of support* and the many run arounds, promises then retraction of those promises, this couple has encountered by the factory regarding this product.

Yes, we can *all*, and I do mean *all* have problems with our RVs, no matter the brand or manufacturer. It's the SUPPORT we get from the factory (and the dealer, of course) when we have those problems that makes us brand loyal.

We experienced what I considered to be a very serious issue with our 2014 Flagstaff V-Lite (bought in May '13), and what did we do? As a result of the fantastic factory/dealer response and support, we bought our 2014 Flagstaff 5er this past January '14, from the same dealer, same salesman. (in fact the day we decided to purchase the 5er, "our" salesman wasn't there....we refused to sign the dotted line with the "other" salesman, even though he claimed to be close friends with "our" salesman outside the work world)

To be sure, your dealer can make or break your RVing experience, but ultimately it is the *manufacturer* and their support and response that seals the deal.

Of course, as is true with all brands and models of RVs, YMMV.

And regarding the OP's "rendition of the issues", I've seen no reason to doubt what they've posted. If they weren't being totally upfront with all these issues, would there have been so many resolutions proposed to date by Sabre? Surely if there was any level of misrepresentation by the OP, then Sabre would have already dismissed them.

Pictures don't lie, and that over-an-inch-wide globby strip of black caulk was worth more than all the words typed on this thread, pro or con.

Same here. We bought our 5er after having great service on our crappy TT we didn't trust any longer, thinking of going to look at it in 4 feet of snow!!! Cant wait to get out..

B

[Mad DADDY]

Originally Posted by Platokidd

You have a lawyer, maybe they do too.

Could be why there not talking at this time.

FYI Im on your side and hope for the best

I guess I should rephrase this, our attorney has reviewed our case and we have been under advice from him for the last month. We have not filed anything in court so there is no reason for FR to not speak with us. We were told since negotiations were still ongoing there was no need to file anything. The time to file is when everyone stops talking about a resolution which has not happened as of yet and hopeful tomorrow will end this battle so everyone can move on and go camping.

[Mad DADDY]

Originally Posted by Taranwanderer

I'm thinking it might soon be time to take the "Animal House" approach to this camper:



"Tell you what, we'll swear that you were doing a great job taking care of your Forest River camper. But, you parked it out back last night, and this morning it was gone! D-Day takes care of the wreck, your insurance company buys you a new camper."



"Will that work?"



"It'll work better than the truth."



Seriously, I'm really sorry you guys are going through this. I'm currently in the market for another Forest River product, and this whole thread is giving me pause...

I may get lucky tonight. We are supposed to get a 1/2 inch of ice and 8 inches of snow and I have plenty of big trees that have had a hard winter. My luck every tree in the yard would fall the other direction......lol

[Chewie]

If you do go the lemon law route, just be weary of what you write on these forums. " anything you say can and will be used against you in court." I used the lemon law in Ohio on a 2012 F350. Took nearly 10 months after hiring a lawyer. During one of our mediations between FoMoCo and me, they threw down a stack of online chat from forums regarding the issues I was saying about the truck. Shocking at the time, ended up not making any difference in the end, settled out of court. Just an FYI. Good luck with your case, you should get a new camper in my opinion. FR should step up and do what's right. By all means hire an attorney. The only person standing to lose anything is you.