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Old 01-08-2017, 12:10 PM   #1
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1st time camping with Forester MBS 2401WS during hard freeze - victories and issues!

We are still newbies in the RV world and slowly but surely learning as we take our new rig out for short trips every month or so since taking possession in May 2016. Continuing to learn much from this forum, so appreciate your patience as I share experiences as well as questions in this longer post.

Overall, continue to love this unit and floorplan! Always fearful about whether/when that big slide will fail while we are out camping in the boondocks somewhere (and what we can do if it does!), but so far so good. This trip we had hard freezes for over 12 hrs during two of the nights we camped at a state park in Texas. Being from Houston TX we are definitely not experienced with this, so had to pull out all the manuals - observation: NONE of manuals tell you what to do if camping during freeze, only what to do when winterizing for storage! Plus, no wi-fi and not enough cell signal at the park to contact this forum .... Okayyyyyyyy ....

Victories/issues:
1. The slide worked! Even during freeze ... although retracted unevenly, so had to give the switch a few extra presses and someone pushing from the outside to get the bedroom side all the way in.
2. The furnace worked! Until it suddenly stopped working the second day and seemed to be in lockout ... why? Something to do with freeze? And is there anything we can do to fix it versus taking rig in for service?
3. The Arctic Package worked beautifully keeping grey and black water tanks from freezing (now THAT would not have been fun at dumping time ...!)
4. Finally filled our fresh water tank for first time to 1/4 full to use when we had to shut off the city water during the freeze to allow the faucets to drip per park ranger instructions. Bad news: Water pump did not work even though switch activated and lit. And discovered Arctic Package does not keep fresh water tank warm ... yup, solid ice in the FW tank. Thank goodness for many water bottles inside to use for flushing. Is there a secret to getting the water pump to work beyond disconnecting city water and hitting the switch inside?
5. During freeze at night, electricity flickered on and off to MW and some electrical outlets. Like every 10 minutes, all night long, accompanied by a beep each time power came back to MW. Feeling it may have something to do with power surge protector we had installed - maybe cutting out when it senses low park voltage?

All in all, was still a great 6-day trip and a great learning experience. Being prepared with some primitive camping gear came in handy, especially our brand new portable Mr Heater "Little Buddy" propane heater recommended by some fellow RVers - lightweight, small, but powerful.

Appreciate any advice on our less victorious observations and other suggestions about living in this coach during a hard freeze. Thanks for your patience in reading!



Kelly & Mary Beth
2017 Forester MBS 2401WS
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:48 PM   #2
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Propane tank not purged properly?

I can only speak to the furnace getting locked out during cold weather -

A likely possibility is freezing of the propane pressure regulator. Although I could never prove it, I suspect our propane tank was never purged properly before it was filled at the dealer (the remove after purging decal was still in place). Our furnace locked out during one of our first outings in near freezing weather. Expansion of the propane gas causes the moisture that may be present (but shouldn't be) to freeze.

I had the tank purged and had a bit of ethanol put into the tank to absorb the moisture and it has worked perfectly ever since.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:08 PM   #3
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Regarding the furnace: Keep in mind that insects, especially spiders, like to nest up in the furnace combustion chamber and the exhaust areas when those appliances are not being used. It's always a good idea to periodically blow out ALL of the lp powered intake/vent areas with compressed air from both directions. You may have simply had some charred debris inhibiting ignition that second night. I've had that happen to me. My motto is that it's always best to attack an issue from the most simple direction first, and using compressed air is simple.
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:55 PM   #4
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Thanks for tips so far on furnace. Will check them out before next trip.


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Old 01-10-2017, 01:38 PM   #5
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Good Information

We have an MBS 2401WS and we've been wondering what was going to happen in freezing conditions. Thanks for posting this - good information.

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Old 01-10-2017, 06:54 PM   #6
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My wife and are learning on short trips also. We got our 2401R also in May 2016. Last night was our first below freezing night and it went off without a hitch. I too wonder about the procedure if the slides refuse to work. Our best mpg was just over 15 but usually 14. We have 7000 miles now.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:23 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by kdwallin View Post
Thanks for tips so far on furnace. Will check them out before next trip.


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regarding the insects, there are screens available to cover the exhaust and intake for your furnace and fridge. They install easily and are not expensive.

I suggest you get an install them. It will keep the spiders, mud daubers, paper wasps, etc. from entering and building nests which will cause all sorts of problems. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:32 AM   #8
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for the fresh water, you are better off to keep the tank full, not empty, in cold weather. the mass of water keeps it from freezing. as for water lines, keeping a heater or light bulb on in the wet bay should provide enough warmth to keep your lines and water pump ok... and using the water pump every hour or so will keep water movement in the lines, which also keeps them from freezing up as easily. also keep your external water hose and sewer lines disconnected from the coach.
your furnace may also feed heat to your wet bay/fresh water tank/sewer tank areas, but running the furnace 24/7 may not be the best bet - you can use electric heaters to keep the chill off during the overnight hours while sleeping, if you are on shore power of course.

another note: most RVs can maintain heat inside better when the slides are in. on really freezing nights, we bring them in when we go to bed. our coach is fully accessible when the slides are in, though, yours may or may not be.

BTW, great coach - I want one of those next!
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:07 PM   #9
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One easy way of know the temp in the wet bay is by adding a multi sensor thermometer. For about $35 on Amazon I got a unit with three sensors. One in the wet bay, one in the frdige, and the last in the freezer. The last night we were in Memphis the temp was -10c (14° F). And the wet bay was at 6° C. (42°F). So the furnace (which does have a duct running down there) was plenty to keep things from freezing.
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:11 PM   #10
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To my knowledge, none of the Forest River built Mercedes Sprinter based class c motor homes have heated basement compartments. Further, there is no "service bay" as such. The dump valve handles are in a tiny locked compartment, the cold water "shower" in another, while the shore water line, gravity feed for fresh water, and 30 amp plug are surface mounted on the side of the motorhome. The black tank gravity dump connection is under the mh body.

To me the biggest weakness is the cold water shower connection. There is no way to turn the water off to this hose connection, and I believe this would be the first thing to freeze and break. If I were planning cold weather camping, I would explore ways to disable this feature. But my wife and I are focused on finding warm place.


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Old 01-11-2017, 08:01 PM   #11
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Great info, all! Makes a lot of sense - thanks for weighing in. So much to learn from everyone.

Timing seems right to take it in for service, now that the Curt recall notice is out, so will keep everyone posted on what the findings are, all the way around ... water pump, furnace, electrical issues. I confess - I'm not "handy", so must rely on my service peeps!



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Old 01-12-2017, 02:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rkloud9 View Post
To my knowledge, none of the Forest River built Mercedes Sprinter based class c motor homes have heated basement compartments. Further, there is no "service bay" as such. The dump valve handles are in a tiny locked compartment, the cold water "shower" in another, while the shore water line, gravity feed for fresh water, and 30 amp plug are surface mounted on the side of the motorhome. The black tank gravity dump connection is under the mh body.

To me the biggest weakness is the cold water shower connection. There is no way to turn the water off to this hose connection, and I believe this would be the first thing to freeze and break. If I were planning cold weather camping, I would explore ways to disable this feature. But my wife and I are focused on finding warm place.


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That coiled hose connection should be the "quick-disconnect" type. Simply pull back the brass collar and remove the hose. I have the same rig.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:11 AM   #13
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Kelly & Mary Beth, thank you! … Your post created useful discussion for an important topic. I too am an RV neophyte (that almost sounds nasty), so this discussion is very helpful and meaningful. Wife and I are preparing to leave (California) for Boise Idaho next week where we plan to live in our 25-ft Prism for the next few months while our new home is constructed. We'll be at an RV park with full-hookup. I am adding heating pads to the storage tanks today, and plan to use heated water hose and heated sewer hose (also intend to insulate both). I plan to skirt the motorhome and insulate the windows and vents. My hope is to keep the interior and basements above 40°F (minimum) with the thought that I can prevent any freezing. I will also add a dehumidifier to reduce condensation. I still need to find a propane supplier who can keep me gassed. Appreciate any advice to use better prepare this. However, I suspect the wisest advice was given me last week while camping under warm sunshine at Salton Sea in southern California. The folks next to us were from Idaho … “wait till March or April,” the gentleman said. But there are several issues pressing us to make this move early.
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Old 01-16-2017, 11:28 AM   #14
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1st time camping with Forester MBS 2401WS during hard freeze - victories and ...

Actually on the MBS models, the fresh water tank and water pump areas ARE heated by a duct from the furnace. I discovered this one cold morning when I checked the water pump area with an infrared thermometer and was pleasantly surprised to discover that it was a balmy 60° in that compartment. Just to be clear, the heater does not warm the basement storage areas. It warms the compartment in which the water pump is found along with the fresh water storage tank, all of which is underneath the floor of the bedroom area.

I also confirmed the heating arrangement when I was working on the furnace and found that there were four heating ducts going to the kitchen, entryway, bathroom and bedroom, plus one more small duct which goes down into the floor and could not be traced further. This is the one which heats the water compartment.

If your furnace stopped working, that is why the water compartment and freshwater tank got so cold. However, I agree with the comment that it is better to have the tank full so that it will not freeze. If you are in a freeze concern situation, either a very cold snap or moderately cold and not having the furnace working, then you should dump out the tank while you still can.

"Moderately cold" is what we in Minnesota call just below freezing! (36 is what we call a heat wave...)

I also agree with the comment that it is the outside components (external sprayer and city water connection, as well as the black water connection fixture) which are the most at risk. The fresh water tank fill line is not at risk because that is merely a tube that runs down into the tank, and the tube itself does not hold water. The outside sprayer is configured in a way that makes it nearly impossible to put any heating elements such as a lightbulb on it without melting something plastic. During one cold night, I stuffed that little compartment with a dirty towel, but this is purely a stopgap measure. There is nothing you can do to protect the city water and black water fixtures short of building an insulated room around them. The two low point drains (mentioned below) are also at risk for freezing.

I'm glad to hear the Arctic tank heaters worked well for you. Sometime when you get a chance, look underneath the vehicle and see how well attached those are. I found that ours were falling off, and had to re-attach them with an extensive amount of duct tape. Please keep in mind that these heaters are DC and work off of the battery, so you will only want to use them when plugged in to shore power. Otherwise, you will need to run the generator whenever the battery starts to run down, including during the nighttime (plus of course to run the furnace...). Anything DC which has resistive heating in it will drain the battery quickly.

In the future, when facing a hard freeze situation (say, anything expected to be below 30°), it would be safest to dump out all freshwater (keep drinking water inside the unit), dump out the holding tanks (unless you will be able to keep the arctic tank heaters going using shore power), drain the hot and cold water lines using the two low point drains (one red and one blue, located underneath the chassis beneath the kitchen sink area), and if possible blow out the water lines including the external sprayer. This can be done in about five minutes at a service station (or if you or another camper have an air compressor) if you have the necessary blowout plug that goes into the city water attachment fixture. It's best to carry one of these with you in the RV for these situations. You can find one at Camping World or on Amazon.

As far as your water pump not working, that could be caused by any of a number of reasons, either electrical or mechanical. It is possible that the pump froze if there was no heat to the water compartment for an extended time. However, one thing to be aware of is that the pump will not run when the faucet is dripping until the pressure in the line drops below the trigger point for the pump. The pump of course should run immediately if you open the faucet fully. Like some of the other things mentioned here, dripping faucets are also a stop gap measure. They will help keep the main lines open, But they will do nothing to protect the external fixtures that are most at risk.




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Old 01-16-2017, 11:46 AM   #15
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By the way, the FR owner's manual does indeed cover winterization. However for whatever reason, most owners don't get it. You can get yours here, look under Class C.

http://www.forestriverinc.com/OnlineManual.aspx

That said, the winterization instructions in the manual are not accurate or complete. It's better to follow a step-by-step guide such as can be found in these forums to make sure you don't miss anything. And do NOT put antifreeze into the fresh water tank! I can't for the life of me understand why FR says to do that, especially after saying to put the pump into bypass mode which will NOT pump antifreeze from the FW tank.


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Old 01-16-2017, 12:23 PM   #16
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I am reminded why I don't camp during the winters!
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:27 PM   #17
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Private message sent to FR Rep today:

Hi,

FR gives inaccurate and incomplete information on how to winterize. This is from the online owner's manual:

Winterizing With Antifreeze Only

Purchase 4-6 gallons of RV approved, non-toxic antifreeze.

Drain all tanks (fresh water and sewage tanks).

***Turn water heater bypass valve to bypass position.***.[COMMENT: YES]

Drain water heater.

If you have a water filter system installed, remove the filter from the assembly and discard. (You will need to purchase a new one and install it when de-winterizing your RV.) [COMMENT: RE-SECURE THE EMPTY FILTER COMPARTMENT IF YOU don't WANT A FLOOD OF ANTIFREEZE ALL OVER YOUR FLOOR!]

Fill the tank above minimum water pump operation level with the RV antifreeze. (Use of a long funnel may be helpful.)[COMMENT: NO! DO NOT PUT ANTIFREEZE INTO THE FW TANK! ALSO WHEN THE PUMP IS IN BYPASS MODE, IT WILL NOT PUMP FROM THE FW TANK. IT PUMPS DIRECTLY FROM THE ANTIFREEZE JUGS OR A PAIL FULL OF ANTIFREEZE]

[COMMENT: INSTRUCTIONS DO NOT INCLUDE HOW TO WINTERIZE THE EXTERNAL SPRAYER, THE CITY WATER CONNECTION OR THE BLACK WATER FLUSH DEVICE. BOTH CAN/SHOULD BE DONE USING THE EXTERNAL SPRAYER AND BLUE HOSE.]


Winterizing With Compressed Air

6. Open all faucets, including shower head sprayer (if applicable), toilet flushing device and any other water lines that are closed.

7. Turn on the water pump for at least 30 seconds to clear any water from the lines.

[COMMENT: WHAT? HOW WILL THIS CLEAR THE LINES? THE WATER PUMP PUMPS WATER, WHICH IT WILL NOT DO ONCE THE FW TANK HAS BEEN DRAINED (STEP 2). WHAT ABOUT INCLUDING INSTRUCTIONS TO DRAIN THE WATER LINES USING THE LOW POINT DRAINS?? THEN OUT THE CAPS BACK ON. THEN BLOW OUT THE LINES.]

[COMMENT: INSTRUCTIONS DO NOT INCLUDE HOW TO BLOW OUT THE EXTERNAL SPRAYER, THE CITY WATER CONNECTION OR THE BLACK WATER FLUSH DEVICE. THE LATER CAN/SHOULD BE DONE USING THE BLOWOUT PLUG.]

Seriously, these instructions are very bad, especially for a newbie who is most likely to use them. Would you kindly consider taking this up with FR for a comprehensive review? My comments are not a complete review of the errors and omissions.

Thanks!



Hi,

FR gives inaccurate and incomplete information on how to winterize. This is from the online owner's manual:

Winterizing With Antifreeze Only

Purchase 4-6 gallons of RV approved, non-toxic antifreeze.

Drain all tanks (fresh water and sewage tanks).

***Turn water heater bypass valve to bypass position.***.[COMMENT: YES]

Drain water heater.

If you have a water filter system installed, remove the filter from the assembly and discard. (You will need to purchase a new one and install it when de-winterizing your RV.) [COMMENT: RE-SECURE THE EMPTY FILTER COMPARTMENT IF YOU don't WANT ANFLOOD OF ANTIFREEZE ALL OVER YOUR FLOOR!]

Fill the tank above minimum water pump operation level with the RV antifreeze. (Use of a long funnel may be helpful.)[COMMENT: NO! DO NOT PUT ANTIFREEZE INTO THE FW TANK! ALSO WHEN THE PUMP IS IN BYPASS MODE, IT WILL NOT PUMP FROM THE FW TANK. IT OUMPS DIRECTLY FROM THE ANTIFREEZE JUGS OR A PAIL FULL OF ANTIFREEZE]

[COMMENT: INSTRUCTIONS DO NOT INCLUDE HOW TO WINTERIZE THE EXTERNAL SPRAYER, THE CITY WATER CONNECTION OR THE BLACK WATER FLUSH DEVICE. BOTH CAN/SHOULD BE DONE USING THE EXTERNAL SPRAYER AND BLUE HOSE.]


Winterizing With Compressed Air

6. Open all faucets, including shower head sprayer (if applicable), toilet flushing device and any other water lines that are closed.

7. Turn on the water pump for at least 30 seconds to clear any water from the lines.

[COMMENT: WHAT? HOW WILL THIS CLEAR THE LINES? THE WATER PUMP PUMPS WATER, WHICH IT WILL NOT DO ONCE THE FW TANK HAS BEEN DRAINED (STEP 2). WHAT ABOUT INCLUDING INSTRUCTIONS TO DRAIN THE WATER LINES USING THE LOW POINT DRAINS?? THEN OUT THE CAPS BACK ON. THEN BLOW OUT THE LINES.]

[COMMENT: INSTRUCTIONS DO NOT INCLUDE HOW TO BLOW OUT THE EXTERNAL SPRAYER, THE CITY WATER CONNECTION OR THE BLACK WATER FLUSH DEVICE. THE LATER CAN/SHOULD BE DONE USING THE BLOWOUT PLUG.]

Seriously, these instructions are very bad, especially for a newbie who is most likely to use them. Would you kindly consider taking this up with FR for a comprehensive review? My comments are not a complete review of the errors and omissions.

Thanks!




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Old 01-16-2017, 12:47 PM   #18
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PS: sorry for all the typos! ☺️


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Old 01-16-2017, 09:22 PM   #19
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MNtraveler ... You. Da. Bomb! Great info, explains almost everything! Thanks ... still wondering about water pump, but will make service appointment and get to the bottom of that. Stay tuned ...


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Old 01-16-2017, 09:59 PM   #20
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Thanks! Glad it helped.


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