ALERT! Biodiesel

[Big Bill]

I was told in Ill the pumps dont have to be labeled biodiesel. anyone know is this is fact?

[Still Kickin]

Originally Posted by MNtraveler

Just a quick update that I have the attention of our state senator on this issue. Minnesota has adopted a requirement of B10 for summer months which went into effect in 2015 and will go into effect again as of May 1, 2016. A further mandate to go to B20 is in the law for 2018. I'm discussing with our senator the possibility of deferring that change with some kind of a moratorium until more research can be done on the impact on motor vehicle engines. I have also identified one other state senator who is quite interested in this issue as she herself owns an affected diesel engine. However, she tried to delay the implementation during the 2014 legislative session and was unsuccessful. Perhaps there can be more success with the B20 standard because it is such a large change and still a couple of years out. However, there are massive agribusiness interests behind this legislation, as the law helps drive the demand for corn and soybeans and therefore helps drive the price of those commodities up.


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

Just a thought, can you contact MB and find out who there can give you definative data on the B20 issue with their motors. If it is fact based, they might join you with their possible increase of motor failures in mind. Just sayin'

[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

This reminds me....
Do I want number 1 or number 2 diesel in the summer?

Sorry. Canada only has one diesel.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

#2.

[Still Kickin]

Originally Posted by MNtraveler

Sure - fill the tank 1/2 full with B10 and then fill it up with pure diesel to dilute the biodiesel to B5.

Sorry - couldn't resist - but truly you can't remove the biodiesel components without your own refinery. It's not hurting your power or mileage, so you don't need a fuel additive type product (and MB warns against using any of them).

BioDiesel has 7% less energy content as #2 diesel, so your fuel economy will suffer. Has a flash point around 300 degrees F which is higher than home heating oil or #2 diese fuel. That is a possible concern since the MB engine has a two part injection process for each stroke of the pistons. If the fuel doesn't do a complete burn, it may cause blow by issues. MB engineers will already know the particulars on this, as you can rest assure, it has been tested already. You just need to get the test data. That might, just might, light a fire under the politicians that own diesels in MN.
Source: What is BioDiesel

[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

BioDiesel has 7% less energy content as #2 diesel, so your fuel economy will suffer. Source: What is BioDiesel

To add to this it will make less power too. I use to run an at home refined B100 in my old truck. The advantage was $2 a gallon instead of $4+ back then.

[Still Kickin]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

This reminds me....
Do I want number 1 or number 2 diesel in the summer?

Sorry. Canada only has one diesel.



2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

Well you're half right in a sense. Canada is colder than the US generally speaking, and with that cold comes blended diesel as defined by;

Winterized Diesel Fuel is a blend of #1 and #2 diesel fuels, typically on the order of 15-20% #1 diesel by volume. Winterized fuel blends are released when the weather becomes too cold for #2.

[Kenny kustom]

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

Well you're half right in a sense. Canada is colder than the US generally speaking, and with that cold comes blended diesel as defined by;



Winterized Diesel Fuel is a blend of #1 and #2 diesel fuels, typically on the order of 15-20% #1 diesel by volume. Winterized fuel blends are released when the weather becomes too cold for #2.

By saying we only have one diesel, I mean at the pump.
Whatever blend is used, it's blended before it gets to the fuel stations.

The only other " choice" in diesel is shell V power.



2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[18CrewDually]

You don't want #1. #1 is Kerosene, also labeled K-1. #2 diesel @ the standard pumps is what you want, whether it's winter blend or not. K-1 is usually a separate standalone pump, and for good reason.

[itat]

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

Canada is colder than the US generally speaking

"Generally speaking", yes, maybe. But I always like to point out these facts.... If you check your atlas you'll see that the most southern part of Canada is at about the same latitude as Northern California. The most populace parts of the province of Ontario - from Windsor to east of Toronto - are at about the same latitude as Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee. Buffalo's weather tends to be worse than Toronto's. And all that cold air we send south of the border originates in Alaska! "Just say in' "

[B and B]

This is my first winter with a Powerstroke. Use remote start every day. The delay for start from button press is maybe 5 seconds for glow plugs on the coldest day, -22C. Truck is using B10 most of the time according to the pump. The only station here with B20 was Husky a western Canadian station and the local Co-Op (UPI) that serves mostly agriculture industry.

[Still Kickin]

Originally Posted by itat

"Generally speaking", yes, maybe. But I always like to point out these facts.... If you check your atlas you'll see that the most southern part of Canada is at about the same latitude as Northern California. The most populace parts of the province of Ontario - from Windsor to east of Toronto - are at about the same latitude as Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee. Buffalo's weather tends to be worse than Toronto's. And all that cold air we send south of the border originates in Alaska! "Just say in' "

"Maybe" all those Ontario plates I saw last week heading north from the warm southern USA just might disagree. Just maybe.

[MNtraveler]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

This reminds me....
Do I want number 1 or number 2 diesel in the summer?

Sorry. Canada only has one diesel.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

The full extent of my (non-expert!) knowledge is that #1 is thinner for winter use and has less power hence gets you worse mileage. However, one may find #1 with less bio than #2 which creates an interesting dilemma that I'm not sure how to resolve. (Mountains require power...)




Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[itat]

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

"Maybe" all those Ontario plates I saw last week heading north from the warm southern USA just might disagree. Just maybe.

No doubt it's warmer there than here! I'm sure there were lots of NY, PA, OH and other northern state plates down there, too! I'm just pointing out that the most populated areas up here are generally within an hour of the USA border and have much the same weather and temps as northern USA.

The diesel we buy is probably the same as the diesel sold in the northern USA states.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by MNtraveler

The full extent of my (non-expert!) knowledge is that #1 is thinner for winter use and has less power hence gets you worse mileage. However, one may find #1 with less bio than #2 which creates an interesting dilemma that I'm not sure how to resolve. (Mountains require power...) Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

#1 Diesel is Kerosene/Heating Oil blend based on forecast lowest temperature (more expensive) #2 diesel will gel if it gets too cold.

#2 Diesel is straight Heating Oil and is fine in summer temperatures.

Based on your latitude, gas stations fill their diesel tanks with #1 in the Fall and #2 in the Spring.

I made the mistake once of not filling my TV truck with "Winter Diesel" before I put it away for the winter. What a mess...

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by Big Bill

I was told in Ill the pumps dont have to be labeled biodiesel. anyone know is this is fact?

That is incorrect. Just check any Murphy diesel fuel pump (Wal-Mart) and you will see B20 on the pump. This applies to BP, Shell and Mobil stations all of them are labeled B20. The pumps do not need to be labeled if they pump B5 or lower diesel fuel.

[MNtraveler]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

That is incorrect. Just check any Murphy diesel fuel pump (Wal-Mart) and you will see B20 on the pump. This applies to BP, Shell and Mobil stations all of them are labeled B20. The pumps do not need to be labeled if they pump B5 or lower diesel fuel.

Correct. See posts 17, 18, 19 in this thread.


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[MNtraveler]

Originally Posted by itat

The diesel we buy is probably the same as the diesel sold in the northern USA states.

I don't think so. The legal requirements for biofuel blends are quite different in the United States. I'll be finding out in June when I travel through Ontario. I hope to find very little biodiesel blend along the way.

Added: Current CN requirement is 2% biodiesel. Voluntary might be higher.

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/altern...biodiesel/3515

2% federal and no province mandates higher than 4%.

http://www.biofuelnet.ca/2013/09/26/...uels-mandates/





Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[itat]

Interesting. Thanks for the links. Sounds like our biodiesel content is lower which may be a good thing if the engine manufacturers haven't adapted very quickly to handling higher biodiesel content fuels.

I guess my point was that our B5 is probably the same as your B5. I have no doubt that we'll follow your government's lead and adopt higher percentages of biodiesel in the not too distant future. Our previous government was probably more highly sensitive to the oil and agricultural sectors. The current government is expected be more keen to push renewables.

[MNtraveler]

Originally Posted by itat

Interesting. Thanks for the links. Sounds like our biodiesel content is lower which may be a good thing if the engine manufacturers haven't adapted very quickly to handling higher biodiesel content fuels.

I guess my point was that our B5 is probably the same as your B5. I have no doubt that we'll follow your government's lead and adopt higher percentages of biodiesel in the not too distant future. Our previous government was probably more highly sensitive to the oil and agricultural sectors. The current government is expected be more keen to push renewables.

That does make sense. Also, producers or retail chains could voluntarily make or buy higher % blends, so certainly if they buy from the US they could get B5 up to B20. That's interesting too because they may not have to disclose it, and if labeling is not required then the station owners may not have a clue what is in their diesel.

[18CrewDually]

Originally Posted by itat

Interesting. Thanks for the links. Sounds like our biodiesel content is lower which may be a good thing if the engine manufacturers haven't adapted very quickly to handling higher biodiesel content fuels.

I guess my point was that our B5 is probably the same as your B5. I have no doubt that we'll follow your government's lead and adopt higher percentages of biodiesel in the not too distant future. Our previous government was probably more highly sensitive to the oil and agricultural sectors. The current government is expected be more keen to push renewables.

B-5 stands for the percentage of blend regardless where you live. B5 is a blend of 5% bio with 95% dino diesel. So B20 is 20% bio blended with 80% dino.