ALERT! Biodiesel

[Phinias]

make sure that you research fuel in your travel area in advance. Fuel containing more than five percent biodiesel could void your warranty. I asked customer service for advice. M-B instructed me to use only National Branded Truck Stops. I asked, "like pilot/flying J"? The rep said,"yes". i had already spoke with Pilot/Flying J. They said, "our diesel contains a minimum of ten percent biodiesel" As per required by EPA all diesel contains at least five percent. some states fifteen percent.

From Mercedes lips to your ears...

http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA..._Brochure5.pdf

my advice...change oil every eight thousand. Un-burned fuel is returned to the crankcase, thus contaminating your lube oil. Bio has a higher flash point than fossil. Most of the bio will not ignite. Also keep close on oil level, it can increase crankcase capacity

[MNtraveler]

And don't roll in with 5 ounces left in the tank only to discover you can't use what they got! However....my dealer told me what MB requires is the industry standard at stations throughout the US ("Regular Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel meeting ASTM D975 can contain biodiesel up to 5%.") I sure hope that's right!


MB also says "B20 blends are generally not approved and should be only used on a very limited basis and only if unavoidable."

Never use B100 which is 100% biodiesel.

[Sandiegodoug]

My gas station in San Diego states nothing about biodiesel percentage
No issues with it. Just states ultra low sulfur


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

[Phinias]

That's the point. It's our responsibility to know what we are putting into our Sprinter fuel tank. The percentage of bio is not divulged at most pumps. See the problem

[MNtraveler]

You have to go inside and ask the manager.


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[Witch Doctor]

Just add an additive to bring it up, I always add Ford Gold with every fill up. Helps with your injectors.

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by Phinias

make sure that you research fuel in your travel area in advance. Fuel containing more than five percent biodiesel could void your warranty. I asked customer service for advice. M-B instructed me to use only National Branded Truck Stops. I asked, "like pilot/flying J"? The rep said,"yes". i had already spoke with Pilot/Flying J. They said, "our diesel contains a minimum of ten percent biodiesel" As per required by EPA all diesel contains at least five percent. some states fifteen percent.

From Mercedes lips to your ears...

http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA..._Brochure5.pdf

my advice...change oil every eight thousand. Un-burned fuel is returned to the crankcase, thus contaminating your lube oil. Bio has a higher flash point than fossil. Most of the bio will not ignite. Also keep close on oil level, it can increase crankcase capacity

This has been a known issue since 2010 on the diesel truck/car sites. We just deal with it and put on double fuel filters to keep the crude out of the pump and injectors. The crude comes from the your fuel tank after using regular fuel and than Bio-fuel. Bio-fuel happens to clean real real good and the crude is stuff that is left in your tank from regular diesel fuel.

On my wife's 2011VW Jetta TDI; we received a letter from VW stating that the warranty would be honored using B20 fuel in IL. Reason IL mandates a certain percent of the fuel refined/sold must be B20.


"No unburned fuel is not returned to your crankcase it is returned to the fuel tank."

The way unburnt fuel is returned to the crankcase is due to the regeneration cycle were fuel is used to burn off the diesel particulates that are captured in the Diesel Particulate filter. When the filter reaches a certain level of containment and the deferential pressure switch senses a restriction, the regeneration cycle is started. The way this is accomplished is to use diesel fuel that is injected into the exhaust cycle and the DPF temperature is raised between 1200 and 1450F. These temperatures will reduce the particulates to ash. During the exhaust cycle some fuel can enter the crankcase and cause your oil level to increase.

On my Ram I monitor the oil quality and in 92,000 miles I have always had less than 1% of fuel dilution to the oil in 7,000 miles. My truck will regenerate ever 300 miles or so when I towed our 5er. My EGT gage will raise to 1450F for 20 min's or so as the filter is cleaned.

[Phinias]

Maybe with RAM but not Sprinter.
It it were returned to the fuel tank there would be no problem. The unburned fuel is sent to the crankcase where theoretically it evaporates due to crankcase temperature. That is not a problem with fossil. However, Bio withstands the crankcase temp. and blends with the lube oil. I spent an hour on the phone with Mercedes North America. The engineer explained this problem to me. M-B in design had no premeditation that the Feds would force Bio-Blend. I was told when traveling to watch my oil level and to drain excess when necessary.

[Toothpick]

I try to use "Auto" diesel whenever possible. Supposedly is limited to just 5% bio, but you never know....

[Toothpick]

I just found a pdf that states that Cummins and John Deere allow up to B20...humm.....

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by Phinias

Maybe with RAM but not Sprinter.
It it were returned to the fuel tank there would be no problem. The unburned fuel is sent to the crankcase where theoretically it evaporates due to crankcase temperature. That is not a problem with fossil. However, Bio withstands the crankcase temp. and blends with the lube oil. I spent an hour on the phone with Mercedes North America. The engineer explained this problem to me. M-B in design had no premeditation that the Feds would force Bio-Blend. I was told when traveling to watch my oil level and to drain excess when necessary.

Fuel has been return to the fuel tank ever since a common rail fuel system has been used. Caterpillar started doing this back in the 70's along with the rest of the industry. Even my wife's Jetta TDI returns the fuel to the tank. You do not want to dead head the fuel at the injectors since the injectors could see as much as 30,000 psi. The fuel system has multiple injections over the power cycle to control the fuel burn and the excess needs to be returned to the tank.

If M/B is sending fuel to the crankcase you would see fuel dilution over 5% in less than 1000 miles.

I am also a retired engineer that has design fuel system and hydraulics for 40 years.

[Skyliner]

He's confused...what is is talking about is fuel dilution from direct injection. Yes, a small amount of fuel gets past the piston rings before it is ignited and causes fuel dilution. Fuel dilution of oil by biodiesel can cause big problems mainly polymerization of the oil. However, I run B20 in my 07 3.0 Mercedes turbo diesel all of the time and chance the oil every 7500 miles. So far no problems and the B20 burns cleaner as it is a very good solvent. Fuel filter is changed every 7500k miles too.

[cousin01]

That's great Sky, but the common wisdom(?) dispensed on most of the MBZ Sprinter forums is that the dealer will deny warranty claims if fuel requirements are not followed to the letter. Which I believe (again, from osmosis not personal research) precludes bio in excess of 5%.

I am sure someone else can quote chapter and verse.

[Flybob]

Originally Posted by MNtraveler

You have to go inside and ask the manager.


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

Good Luck with this

[MNtraveler]

Originally Posted by cousin01

That's great Sky, but the common wisdom(?) dispensed on most of the MBZ Sprinter forums is that the dealer will deny warranty claims if fuel requirements are not followed to the letter. Which I believe (again, from osmosis not personal research) precludes bio in excess of 5%.



I am sure someone else can quote chapter and verse.

I did quote it in #2 above. The B5 requirement is clear but the B20 statement is a bit squishy. B20 will be a grounds for argument.


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[MNtraveler]

Originally Posted by Flybob

Good Luck with this

OK, duly chastised. What I mean was the manager vs. pump jockeys (which is not an insult; I was one once). If the manager doesn't know that's a problem. WTH are they paying for (and are they paid for!)?


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[MNtraveler]

Here is some interesting info:

http://www.natso.com/blog/truckstop-...nts-unraveled-

Truckstop Biodiesel Pump Labeling Requirements Unraveled

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) regulates pump labeling within four categories; B1-B5, B6-B20, B20+ and B100. FTC biodiesel pump labels are blue in color. Orange labels denote the broader category of biomass-based diesel which could also include renewable diesel.

B1-B5: Does not require a pump label. ASTM announced in 2008 that biodiesel blends up to B5 perform and are handled the same as straight diesel fuel. Many retailers offer blends up to B5 in varying amounts and do not need to label.

B6-B20: For any blend amount between B6 and B20, federal law requires one label is required. In some states, retailers who switch blends within the range are required to specifically note the blend (B8, B10, B11, etc). Blends in the B6 to B20 can be tested for combined fuel quality using the ASTM D7467 method.

B20+: This label states “B21 Biodiesel Blend” in the header and with the text ‘‘contains more than 20 percent biodiesel” below.

B100: Pump label required if sold at retail.



Guest post provided by NATSO Chairman's Circle member Jon Scharingson, Renewable Energy Group. Renewable Energy Group® is a leading North American biodiesel producer with a nationwide distribution and logistics system. With more than 210 million gallons of owned/operated annual production capacity at biorefineries across the country, REG is a proven biodiesel partner in the distillate marketplace




Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[MNtraveler]

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/biodiesel_blends.html

Biodiesel Blends
Biodiesel can be blended and used in many different concentrations. The most common are: B100 (pure biodiesel), B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% petroleum diesel), B5 (5% biodiesel, 95% petroleum diesel) and B2 (2% biodiesel, 98% petroleum diesel).

Low-Level Blends
ASTM International develops specifications for a wide variety of products, including conventional diesel fuel (ASTM D975). This specification allows for biodiesel concentrations of up to 5% (B5) to be called diesel fuel, with no separate labeling required at the pump. Low-level biodiesel blends, such as B5 are ASTM approved for safe operation in any compression-ignition engine designed to be operated on petroleum diesel. This can include light-duty and heavy-duty diesel cars and trucks, tractors, boats, and electrical generators.

B20
B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% petroleum diesel) is the most common biodiesel blend in the United States. B20 is popular because it represents a good balance of cost, emissions, cold-weather performance, materials compatibility, and ability to act as a solvent. Most biodiesel users purchase B20 or lower blends from their normal fuel distributors or from biodiesel marketers. Regulated fleets that use biodiesel blends of 20% (B20) or higher qualify for biodiesel fuel use credits under the Energy Policy Act of 1992.

B20 (and any blend between B6 and B20) must meet prescribed quality standards as specified by ASTM D7467 (summary of requirements). The Department of Energy’s Vehicle Technologies Office previously supported work to test and improve biodiesel quality, helping more fuel meet ASTM standards. B20 and lower-level blends generally do not require engine modifications. Engines operating on B20 have similar fuel consumption, horsepower, and torque to engines running on petroleum diesel.

Pure biodiesel (B100) contains about 8% less energy per gallon than petroleum diesel. For B20, this translates to a 1% to 2% difference, but most B20 users report no noticeable difference in performance or fuel economy. Biodiesel has some emissions benefits, especially for engines manufactured before 2010. For engines equipped with selective catalytic reduction (SCR) systems, the air quality benefits are the same whether running on biodiesel or petroleum diesel. However, biodiesel still offers better greenhouse gas (GHG) benefits compared to conventional diesel fuel. The emissions benefit is roughly commensurate with the blend level; that is, B20 would have 20% of the GHG reduction benefit of B100.

However, not all diesel engine manufacturers cover biodiesel use in their warranties (see the National Biodiesel Board's OEM Information for those that do support the use of biodiesel blends). [ http://www.biodiesel.org/using-biodi...em-information ] Users should always consult their vehicle and engine warranty statements before using biodiesel.


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[MNtraveler]

Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[FrankMor]

Funny, my wife worked with a Dr. that used nothing but used cooking oil in his MB diesel. He picked it up from fast food places, filtered it, put it in the car and drove it. Smelled like French fries!