Backup Camera.

[mbheinz]

Originally Posted by DaveJordan

boises?

Dave,

I work with security cameras at my job daily. After reviewing your pictures I believe that your camera is stuck in daytime mode. Daytime mode will be in color and night time mode with the IR lights will be in black and white. Your IR lights do appear to be working correctly but the camera won't recognize them while in day mode.

Another reason I think it's in day mode is that in your night time picture with the brake lights on, the reflection shows up red indicating it is still in day (color) mode. Cameras won't generally change from day to night that fast (every time you hit the brakes). There is a light sensor for this and it should be shielded from head lights and such so the camera won't be flipping back and forth every time a car goes by.

You can try to test it with a light on a dimmer switch and brighten it up then slowly back down to full dark and watch your monitor to see if it stays in color the whole time.

It just seems to me to be a faulty camera. Bummer.

Mike

[nusslejj]

Originally Posted by mbheinz

Dave,

I work with security cameras at my job daily. After reviewing your pictures I believe that your camera is stuck in daytime mode. Daytime mode will be in color and night time mode with the IR lights will be in black and white. Your IR lights do appear to be working correctly but the camera won't recognize them while in day mode.

Another reason I think it's in day mode is that in your night time picture with the brake lights on, the reflection shows up red indicating it is still in day (color) mode. Cameras won't generally change from day to night that fast (every time you hit the brakes). There is a light sensor for this and it should be shielded from head lights and such so the camera won't be flipping back and forth every time a car goes by.

You can try to test it with a light on a dimmer switch and brighten it up then slowly back down to full dark and watch your monitor to see if it stays in color the whole time.

It just seems to me to be a faulty camera. Bummer.

Mike

Mike - what you say makes a lot of sense. If your suspicion is true, then the idea of lighting up the rear of the RV with more 'white' light at night may force the camera to stay in 'DAY' mode - which would be contrary to what we really want it to do. My camera is painted cream to match the paint scheme. I wonder if that is somehow affecting the light sensors ability to flip the camera to night mode. I may scrape the paint off around the sensor (or paint it black) - which I believe is in the lower center of the camera.

[nusslejj]

Originally Posted by DaveJordan

boises?

I think that is French for 'reverses' - i.e., causes it to not switch day/night mode when it should ? (I could be completely wrong on this.)

[dogpa]

So sorry I meant voided the warranty, shouldn't type on cell phone. The lady I coordinated with said that is should be black.

So sorry for the misspelling misunderstanding.

dpgpa

[DaveJordan]

The new camera has arrived. I won't be able to install it immediately, but I thought folks might like to see a few pictures that may help explain how it's installed.

First, here's a picture of the camera which comes with about a 4-1/2 foot cable hardwired:


The cable has two pieces already attached. The first is a small bump, probably a ballast to improve the signal:


The second is a grommet:


Finally, here's a picture of the mounting bracket:


As far as I can see, the hole in the center of the mounting bracket is large enough for the cable and ballast to fit through, but not large enough for the grommet. So...I think the standard mounting for this is to drill a hole in the RV fiberglass large enough for the grommet to fit in. Then attach the camera's cable to a longer cable inside the back cap, push everything into the hole and seal it with the grommet. Then screw the mounting bracket to the fiberglass and mount the camera on the bracket.

I guess I'll find out if I'm right when I get the chance to take things apart and try the installation. I've got a couple of worries - maybe FR gets their cameras with a single long cable, so there's no connection in the back cap or maybe there is a connection, but there isn't enough slack in the cable to pull it out of the hole to remove the old camera and attach the new one. Time will tell (unless someone else already knows...)

Dave

[emm-dee]

If it's the same as most FR units there will be a pre-installed wire with sufficient slack.

[nusslejj]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

If it's the same as most FR units there will be a pre-installed wire with sufficient slack.

So in other words, you may be able to pull the existing cable out through the existing hole out to the connector, and then when the camera has been reconnected you can push it back in ?

[nusslejj]

Based on what mbheinz said, and another person I know that confirmed, it appears that our cameras are not detecting NIGHT TIME, and so are not going to B/W and using the infrared lights effectively. What you showed in an earlier post was the IR lights were working, but still had a crappy image. We are anxious for you to tell us how the replacement went, and what difference it made at night ! Also, what was the RVS camera 'model' you ordered ? Thanks !

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by nusslejj

So in other words, you may be able to pull the existing cable out through the existing hole out to the connector, and then when the camera has been reconnected you can push it back in ?

Yes.

[Still Kickin]

If that is the issue, painted surface causes camera malfunction, not switching to night mode, which one of you guys will give FR the heads up, so they can correct this at the paint shop.

[Still Kickin]

Originally Posted by DaveJordan

The new camera has arrived. I won't be able to install it immediately, but I thought folks might like to see a few pictures that may help explain how it's installed.

First, here's a picture of the camera which comes with about a 4-1/2 foot cable hardwired:


The cable has two pieces already attached. The first is a small bump, probably a ballast to improve the signal:


The second is a grommet:


Finally, here's a picture of the mounting bracket:


As far as I can see, the hole in the center of the mounting bracket is large enough for the cable and ballast to fit through, but not large enough for the grommet. So...I think the standard mounting for this is to drill a hole in the RV fiberglass large enough for the grommet to fit in. Then attach the camera's cable to a longer cable inside the back cap, push everything into the hole and seal it with the grommet. Then screw the mounting bracket to the fiberglass and mount the camera on the bracket.

I guess I'll find out if I'm right when I get the chance to take things apart and try the installation. I've got a couple of worries - maybe FR gets their cameras with a single long cable, so there's no connection in the back cap or maybe there is a connection, but there isn't enough slack in the cable to pull it out of the hole to remove the old camera and attach the new one. Time will tell (unless someone else already knows...)

Dave

Suggestion; go easy on fishing that cord out so you don't disconnect it before it shows up in the hole. I'd also apply some electrical tape to that connection to keep it together.

[DaveJordan]

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

If that is the issue, painted surface causes camera malfunction, not switching to night mode, which one of you guys will give FR the heads up, so they can correct this at the paint shop.

Just an FYI - my Solera is unpainted...

Dave

[DaveJordan]

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

Suggestion; go easy on fishing that cord out so you don't disconnect it before it shows up in the hole. I'd also apply some electrical tape to that connection to keep it together.

The connector has a screw ring to hold the two halves together and then a rubber sleeve the covers the entire joint. It SHOULDN'T come apart, but I will be careful with it...and I'll be especially careful when I disconnect to switch from one camera to the other!

Dave

[DaveJordan]

I took the existing camera off the back of the RV...here's what I found...

First, the RVS standard U-shaped mounting bracket isn't used with the "R" models. The R models have a slide-out topper awning which gets in the way, so they use an extended camera mount which moves the camera a few more inches away from the RV so it can see over the rolled up awning.

Second, there was almost NO slack in the cable and no way to fish the connection out of the RV end cap. The camera is mounted between to marker lights - the camera cable heads to the passenger side. So I took off the marker light right next to the camera on that side. It appears that there's an aluminum channel for the wires to the marker lights. The camera cable seems to come over almost directly behind that marker light, then seems to exit through the top of the channel. I don't know where it goes - it may be accessible by removing the trim piece in the upper rear corner of the bedroom, but that's more invasive than I'm willing to do for this camera.

So I think I'm down to three choices - I can live with the existing camera or I can cut the existing cable to insert a new connector or I can take the cameras apart and switch the wires from the existing cable from the old camera to the new camera.

Not much happy with any of the alternatives ... and not sure what I'll do next ...

Dave

[nusslejj]

dave - I just noticed - I have exactly the same unit as yours - 2015 24R and a 2014 MB Chassis.

[DaveJordan]

So I decided to throw caution to the wind and take the camera apart to see how it was wired to the incoming cable. I learned a few things in the process.

First, the shell comes apart fairly easily. There are four screws, accessible from the back of the camera, that hold the shell together. There's also a sticker or two across the split between the two parts of the shell, presumably to show that I've tampered with it.

There's an oddly shaped gasket that goes between the two halves of the shell, presumably for weather protection. It's just loose, so taking the shell apart doesn't seem to affect it.

With the front of the shell off, there are two screws under a thin black plastic sheet. These two screws hold a front of the camera circuit board - the circuit board has the 18 IR LEDs as well as what appears to be a light level sensor. There's also a rubber-like collar around a central hole in this board - that's where the camera, mounted behind, looks out.

With the two screws removed, the LED/sensor board can be pulled away. It's connected to the board behind it with a pair of small wires which plug into a socket on the back side of the LED/sensor board. With the wires unplugged, the board can be removed completely.

With the LED/sensor board removed, the camera and it's supporting circuit board become accessible. The camera board is mounted to the housing with four screws. With the screws removed the camera board is loose except for it's wiring. The cable coming in the back of the shell has five wires - four connect to the camera board in a four-way plug/socket while the fifth is soldered directly to the board.

In addition to the five wires from the main cable and the two wires that go to the LED/sensor board, there are two more small wires plugged into the camera board. These final two wires appear to connect directly to the metal shell ... I have no idea what they do ...

I determined all of the above while disassembling the new camera - I figured it was easier to do that at my bench than to disassemble the camera dangling from the back of the RV.

But, having done all of the above, I decided to go ahead and take the original camera apart see if replacing the LED/sensor board might solve the problem.

And...I'm not sure. With the new sensor board in place...I can see a little bit in the dark. Not much, but maybe more than before.

I haven't decided whether to try replacing the camera board as well - I'm a bit nervous about the small wire soldered directly to that board. I'll probably give it a try - probably by cutting the wires and soldering the loose ends rather than trying to replace the wire on the board itself.

Adventures in electrical deconstruction!

Dave

[backdoctor]

Very cool Dave. I love your posts. Always cogent information well laid out. I'm glad we have the same rig. And that you are on this board as much as I am. You are just better at posting and explaining. Cheers.

[DaveJordan]

Since replacing only the IR LED board didn't improve things much, I finally got around to replacing the camera module as well. The process is mostly straightforward - remove some (small) screws, unplug some small connectors, replug using the new board and reinstall the screws. But one wire coming from the main cable is soldered to the board. Rather than trying to unsolder / resolder, I chose to cut the wires to both the old and new boards and then solder the wire back together.

None of this is a particularly big deal except that all of the work takes place 10 feet off the floor on an extension ladder. Ah well.

The results seem to have been worth the effort. If you remember my original images, the night time image was just a wash of blue....somewhat improved when using tail or brake lights, but not much. Anyway, here's an image taken with the lights in my garage on:



Here's the same scene with the new camera and the garage lights off:



So...it's a little tough to make stuff out...but at least there's a viewable image!

I still have a fair amount of work to do - I need to clean up the inside of the camera housing, apply some sealer to the various plugs/sockets to ensure everything stays together, and maybe seal the housing itself a little better. Then I have to clean up all the caulking used to seal the camera mount to the RV, recaulk, remount the camera, get it all lined up again, and tighten all the screws that hold the mount to the RV and the camera to the mount.

Anyway...so far, things are looking much better than before.

Dave

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by DaveJordan

Since replacing only the IR LED board didn't improve things much, I finally got around to replacing the camera module as well. The process is mostly straightforward - remove some (small) screws, unplug some small connectors, replug using the new board and reinstall the screws. But one wire coming from the main cable is soldered to the board. Rather than trying to unsolder / resolder, I chose to cut the wires to both the old and new boards and then solder the wire back together.

None of this is a particularly big deal except that all of the work takes place 10 feet off the floor on an extension ladder. Ah well.

The results seem to have been worth the effort. If you remember my original images, the night time image was just a wash of blue....somewhat improved when using tail or brake lights, but not much. Anyway, here's an image taken with the lights in my garage on:



Here's the same scene with the new camera and the garage lights off:



So...it's a little tough to make stuff out...but at least there's a viewable image!

I still have a fair amount of work to do - I need to clean up the inside of the camera housing, apply some sealer to the various plugs/sockets to ensure everything stays together, and maybe seal the housing itself a little better. Then I have to clean up all the caulking used to seal the camera mount to the RV, recaulk, remount the camera, get it all lined up again, and tighten all the screws that hold the mount to the RV and the camera to the mount.

Anyway...so far, things are looking much better than before.

Dave

Wow. I thought my garage/workshop was dis-organized. Feel better now.