Forest River / RV Quality

[schrederman]

Originally Posted by Phil57

Most of the time they do. I know that most of the people I know with RV's have had little or know issues. I'm always amazed with the comments on a post like this. It's almost always the same folks grinding the same ax. If anyone has ever had a house built how many items were on your punch list? My son had in built not ling ago. 50 items on the list. This is after the crafts do their own. I painted new construction with my father for several years. We would do our own and it was usually 40-70.
Building a RV is not like a house than a car. I do agree some practices need to be changed but over all they do a pretty good job. I for one know how hard the folks work. It's hard to hear how some of you talk about them.

To me, that's a poor comparison. I live in a very new area, with the oldest home at about 4 years old. Home builders are as bad or worse than RV builders. The builder that built my custom home is in court with 4 other owners in the neighborhood.... for cutting corners and not honoring warranties. While I post negatively about this industry with regularity, my complaints, like those of many others, are not unfounded. To say or believe they are is naive to say the least.

[dogpa]

Boy you can tell its winter and it seems all the authors in this thread are not using their 'rvs, myself included. Have owned multiple units and agree with both sides of this fence but I really think we need to just get em ready and go on to the next adventure. I am. Heading from Vegas to Texas in the next couple and I know for sure once on the road all my frustrations with quality, sawdust, and loose screws will melt away and I hope it does the same for all.


Happy 'trails
Dogpa

[Dogpound]

Ford,chev,and Toyota have been building automobiles for a long time. I have had several new cars over the years without the problems l have with a motorhome....cars drive on the same roads .....you can not build an automobile using the same fasteners and parts you build your house with.

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I do agree that frustration is amplified when you are not mechanically inclined. I am frustrated when I have to take a vehicle in for service. The waiting, the ride coordination, etc. I try and fix absolutely as much as I can myself. Car, home, RV. Their fault or not. (I'm not saying this is for everyone).

On another note, talking about expectations (mfg and retail), let me throw this at you. Let's say you had some issues on your Toyota. You had taken it into a dealer and the repair did not stick. So Toyota calls you and says...

"Hey, how about we come and grab your car from your driveway. I know our warranty says we do not cover fuel, or mileage, etc, but you already had it at the dealer once. We'll come and grab the car, drive it to our best service facility and drop it back in your driveway when we're done?"

What would your response be?
Ecstatic that they're saving you a headache.
Or do you instantly go into complaint mode about the mileage they'll be adding to your car and look for compensation?

I think a dealer or mfg should go above and beyond, but I can tell you some retail customers make you want to do the very bare minimum. Any sign of help, above and beyond the call of duty, is looked at as weakness. So I do see dealers doing as little as possible so the flood gates aren't opened and at times making you feel like them servicing your unit at all is a huge favor to you.

I could cite examples that would make your head spin...but again, just like this forum, mainly the bad stories are spread and stick and most of the good ones I never hear about as they are happily enjoying their coach. Is it human nature? Not sure but it seems the same way with the news...tragedy gets the best ratings.

I interpret this to mean "don't buy a motor home (from FR or anyone else) unless you are prepared and able to fix it yourself". Wow.

I am very mechanically inclined, been working on cars since I was 15, do all my own maintenance (unless it's a car under warranty) and am currently building a home built airplane in our hangar. So I think I generally have the skills, tools and facility to do most any repair. Problem is, we use our MH for traveling and not being able to have it repaired on the road is an issue.

The problem I have had with FR is their dealer network and their unwillingness to fix my (formerly) under warranty MH. Despite what you have said, I think this is an FR issue and could be fixed if FR wanted to. I shouldn't have to fix my own MH when it is under warranty, but that's precisely what I've been forced to do.

While I appreciate all the other stories of how you and FR have gone above and beyond for other purchasers, my experience has been quite different.

[Still Kickin]

Observation; The DIY is puzzling at best, I say that because home depot, lowes, etc. are packed. However, upon closer observation, they sell many products that are commodity related, by that no knowledge needed to use. Think about it, we removed "shop classes" from high schools years ago, result, a generation of dummies who have never picked up a scew driver. That in turn filters down to industry and their needs to hire workers with certain skill sets to complete the task at hand.

The task becomes this; I know an individual that designed a new fastening system in a certain indusry to allow for wheels off packaging to save shipping costs. Now get this, the design to re-attach the wheels upon retail purchase, needed to take into account that the avg consumer household doesn't own a hammer! See where this is headed. Oh, and for you DIYers reading this, you totally understand whats happened out there. The rest of you are unfortunately at the mercy of what we have become. RVs are built, autos are "assembled" HUGE difference. Just sayin'

[The_Rhino]

A couple years ago we bought our 2011 PrimeTime TT used, had the dealer perform a thorough PDI, and have had 2 years of trouble-free camping. If there were any warranty issues, the previous owner took care of them.

IMO, the 2011s were built at the end of the recession by the better workers who retained their jobs during several years of slow RV sales. Our 2011 had obviously better fit & finish than the new 2014s that were sitting side-by-side... Because it was used, it was also 25% less expensive than the best new/wholesaler price we could find.

In our case, that $8000 saved can go towards replacing appliances, etc. that will likely die 2-3 years earlier than had we bought new. I figure I can replace the A/C, fridge, etc. and still be money-ahead.

When it's time to upgrade to a MH, we plan to look at gently used ones first until FR can solve Q&C issues with new units...

[Joshua Cavitt]

Brian clearly states when he has to rely on someone else to fix something for him it is frustrating so he fixes it himself. In no way did he say don't buy a motorhome if you can't fix something yourself.

[bclemens]

Thanks for that Josh. Lol, I was debating a response and decided I wasn't going to waste my breath, closed my browser to go watch some college basketball and got an email with your post. That is the correct interpretation. If you have to take your coach to the dealer every time a drawer needs adjusted or a screw is stripped, it will be very frustrating experience, same as with a house.

[tkarper14]

Brian, Josh (and any other FR employees). Thank you for taking your personal time to read and reply to posts.

Now, I don't see where quality and quality control at Forest River is different than any other manufacturing companies in both the US and worldwide. It is a stock driven industry. If the nay sayers had Berkshire Hathaway stock in their 401(k) portfolio and they did not own a Forest River they too would be pushing to cut corners. That is exactly why I do not own stock in the company I work for.

On a side note, anyone who can afford Berkshire Hathaway stock can probably afford to pay someone else to address their waranty issues.

[schrederman]

I sold a pretty good business after building it up over an 8-year period. I was careful with the phone systems we sold. I didn't want to sell junk. I had already figured out that it didn't matter how good our service was, or how airtight the warranty was. If the customer had to complain weekly about something, they weren't going to be happy with my company. I don't see any of that kind of attitude in the RV business at any level. My only problem with RVing is that I enjoy being out too much, and therefore put up with the constant repair hassle that goes with ownership... instead of pulling this thing to Indiana with signs all over it about what a turd in my punch bowl it's actually been...

And... I DO own some Berkshire Hathaway (BRKA) stock... and work for a Berkshire-owned company. And... unfortunately, no I didn't get any kind of discount.

[tkarper14]

And... I DO own some Berkshire Hathaway (BRKA) stock... and work for a Berkshire-owned company. And... unfortunately, no I didn't get any kind of discount.[/QUOTE]

No discount.... That is a bummer.

[Joshua Cavitt]

Phone software development is much different than the RV manufacturing system.
Each coach is custom built by human hand, not machine, which allows for human mistakes. That doesn't allow for an entire factory to "Cut corners" to produce more. The only way to eliminate human mistakes is to eliminate the human from the process.
Are there some things we can improve upon to eliminate that error? Definitely, and we are.
A software system can have any error programmed out of it; humans can not.
This is why we do provide excellent customer service and warranty system. Unfortunately an online forum doesn't always see the ones who love their coach or have had little to no issues.

[conceptumator]

Mistakes are understandable....but they need a process for correction so the same mistakes don't occur over and over again. Repetitive poor quality is the product of a total lack of pride in workmanship and that is the problem with the RV's coming out of the plants now. It's not just in RV's, either, it's everywhere. True, there are processes being used that aren't the best and could be improved upon, but the sheer sloppiness is what I see most as an issue.

[Joshua Cavitt]

Remember, though we are Forest River, each division is ran separately. At our division our Managers, sales teams, engineers, and production are all under one roof. This allows to see these mistakes and then work together to find a way to correct them.

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Thanks for that Josh. Lol, I was debating a response and decided I wasn't going to waste my breath, closed my browser to go watch some college basketball and got an email with your post. That is the correct interpretation. If you have to take your coach to the dealer every time a drawer needs adjusted or a screw is stripped, it will be very frustrating experience, same as with a house.

Mr. Clemens,

While I appreciate your willingness to visit this forum and provide your expertise, the snarky comments like "I wasn't going to waste my breath" are not appreciated. Like it or not, you and Mr. Cavitt have become the "face" of FR on this forum.

I work for a major airline and accept the fact that every time I put on my uniform, I represent my company. Even when I stop at a gas station, if I am approached by someone with a question or complaint, I try to answer it truthfully and with respect. When I have a disgruntled passenger, I take the service failure personally, even though I frequently had no control over their problem (like they did not get their special meal). If I am able to make the passenger understand that I care, they are much more likely to return to my airline the next time they travel. Additionally, we have multiple tools to provide information to the company so they can work to rectify these failures.

Mr. Cavitt, FR may have the best warranty/service in the industry, but my experience with both FR and a couple of your authorized dealers has been poor.

So instead of coming on to the forum, reading our experiences and then telling us basically why we are wrong, I submit that providing our feedback on how we were treated or what broke on our MH to your superiors would be much more valuable. A company truly interested in continuous improvement would also seek out their customers for feedback. I don't see that from FR.

[DaveJordan]

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

A company truly interested in continuous improvement would also seek out their customers for feedback. I don't see that from FR.

Hmm. I see just the opposite. The fact the Brian and Joshua not only read the posts but also participate in the discussions indicates, to me, that they are seeking out feedback from their customers.

Dave

[Joshua Cavitt]

See previous post for comments to my superiors.



What have been your issues with our servicing dealers or customer service?



From my end it, Brian and I do a great job here on the forum providing service to people in and out of warranty. I've spoken to several members here via PM, Email, Text to walk them through issues, help them with mods, and direct them to the right service rep or center.

[namusmc]

When it comes to hiring personnel or doing things right the first time, my favorite expression is "It's easier to give birth than to resurrect." That kind of sums it all up, doesn't it?

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by DaveJordan

Hmm. I see just the opposite. The fact the Brian and Joshua not only read the posts but also participate in the discussions indicates, to me, that they are seeking out feedback from their customers.

Dave

Fair enough. I was referring to something more like a survey from FR at some point after purchase asking questions like 1. Have you had any issues with your MH? If yes, what were those issues? 2. Have you taken the MH to a dealer? If yes, what dealer? 3. Were the issues resolved?

Information like this would provide true feedback on assembly and component failures, plus provide a lot more information to FR on dealer service quality.

Again, feedback to Mr. Clemens and Mr. Cavitt is one thing, detailed information directly to FR to close the loop on QC is quite another.

[Joshua Cavitt]

We get detailed feedback from our service centers/dealerships. If we are having issues with a dealer getting service we normally hear from the customer through numerous forms of communication; one of them being here.