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Old 04-02-2018, 08:41 PM   #1
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Forget NAPA for Oil, See the Dealer

I just bought my supplies for the next oil change from my local MB dealer.
Cost was $6.67 /quart for Mercedes branded 5w30 oil, 229.51/2 spec., made by Mobil.
I've been wanting to to get away from the Mobil 1 0w30, since that is too thin, in my opinion, to protect against engine wear.
I can't find a better deal around on approved oil, plus they now have a record of my oil change purchases for warranty purposes.
Sweet!
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:46 PM   #2
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$5.79 + 10% off if you order online at Napa when it's on sale. 229.52 is the current spec - I'm not sure what your reference to 229.51/2 is. Either it is 229.52 or it isn't.

My last oil change/filter cost me $92. I did the first oil change at about 5500 miles not knowing what oil was in there and how much idling was done at the dealer in the 14 months they had it.
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:36 AM   #3
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According to Mobil 1's spec sheet, Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 meets MB approval 229.51, but does not meet 229.52.


Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 does meet MB approval 229.52. Either are approved specs for the MB Sprinter 642 engine.

According to MB approved oils, both meet 229.52.


So I guess it just comes down to what makes you feel good. When either gets to operating temp they are both functioning as 30 weight. MB branded 5W30 does meet 229.52. Strange if they are both made by the same company.
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:37 AM   #4
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I'm not sure what your reference to 229.51/2 is. Either it is 229.52 or it isn't.
I believe that the OP is indicating that the MB oil meets both specifications, 229.51 and 229.52.

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Old 04-04-2018, 12:07 PM   #5
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I believe that the OP is indicating that the MB oil meets both specifications, 229.51 and 229.52.

Dave
That is correct. MB oil meets both specs.
Most importantly, since I do my own oil changes, I like the paper trail it generates at Mercedes for warranty purposes, and as a future selling point when I sell it.
14 quarts cost $94 plus tax. That's a few bucks more than NAPA, but well worth it to me.
I will note that they gave me the wholesale price. List price is seven-something a quart, but on bulk purchases they knock the price down, at least at my local MB dealership.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:22 PM   #6
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I buy my Mobil 1 at Wally world for less that $30 for a 5 qt jug. Never a problem with the receipt . Dealer has never said a word, it's all the same.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:31 PM   #7
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I buy my Mobil 1 at Wally world for less that $30 for a 5 qt jug. Never a problem with the receipt . Dealer has never said a word, it's all the same.
Wally doesn't carry the Mobil 1 ESP. It's only sold in quarts. It's a special low ash formulation.
The "Advanced Fuel Economy" Mobil 1 that you are buying does not meet Mercedes Benz specs.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:34 PM   #8
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I buy my Mobil 1 at Wally world for less that $30 for a 5 qt jug. Never a problem with the receipt . Dealer has never said a word, it's all the same.
Wally world does not carry the proper spec Mobil 1 for the MB diesel. Dealer won't say anything until you try and make a warranty claim and produce the receipts of the oil.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:49 PM   #9
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I am always captivated by how people view oil. Like a 0w30 being too thin. A 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, or a straight 30w are all the same viscosity. The only difference is the cold flow rating, or “winter” which is what the “w” in XXw30 stands for. All of these have the same kinematic viscosity. And viscosity is not “thickness”. It is resistance to flow.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:10 PM   #10
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I am always captivated by how people view oil. Like a 0w30 being too thin. A 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, or a straight 30w are all the same viscosity. The only difference is the cold flow rating, or “winter” which is what the “w” in XXw30 stands for. All of these have the same kinematic viscosity. And viscosity is not “thickness”. It is resistance to flow.
I am amazed myself how little people know about oil. I've been a diesel tech for 40 years and get into discussions quite frequently with family members on this. Such a discussion might be -- well the dealer said you "have to" change oil at 3000 or 5000 mile intervals. I tell them that was the norm 30 + years ago but the oil is so technically advanced that you can go higher. I have been using synthetic oil and doing 10000 mile oil changes on my personal vehicles for over 20 years with no issues. I also do oil sample analysis to prove it. But that conversation falls on deaf ears. Oh well. To each their own.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:27 PM   #11
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<snip>I have been using synthetic oil and doing 10000 mile oil changes on my personal vehicles for over 20 years with no issues. I also do oil sample analysis to prove it. But that conversation falls on deaf ears. Oh well. To each their own.
I have a friend that insists on changing the oil in his car once per year - he drives 3k miles a year and uses synth oil. I figure he has money to burn. I had my 2000 F350 diesel oil (T6) analyzed at about 7k miles and was told it would go at least 4k more. I also go about 10k between changes and have never had an issue.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:56 PM   #12
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Absolutely no dealer will sample your oil to determine that it meets any spec prior to any warranty repair. None.
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:18 PM   #13
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I am amazed myself how little people know about oil. I've been a diesel tech for 40 years and get into discussions quite frequently with family members on this. Such a discussion might be -- well the dealer said you "have to" change oil at 3000 or 5000 mile intervals. I tell them that was the norm 30 + years ago but the oil is so technically advanced that you can go higher. I have been using synthetic oil and doing 10000 mile oil changes on my personal vehicles for over 20 years with no issues. I also do oil sample analysis to prove it. But that conversation falls on deaf ears. Oh well. To each their own.
Oil change intervals for warranty on the Mercedes is 20,000 miles or 2 years, but to each their own.
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:22 PM   #14
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I am always captivated by how people view oil. Like a 0w30 being too thin. A 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, or a straight 30w are all the same viscosity. The only difference is the cold flow rating, or “winter” which is what the “w” in XXw30 stands for. All of these have the same kinematic viscosity. And viscosity is not “thickness”. It is resistance to flow.
Agreed. Also, how many people think the W means weight?

A 0W30 oil is not going to be "thinner" than a 5W30 oil at operating temps. I would just buy the 0W30 Mobil 1
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:36 PM   #15
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Absolutely no dealer will sample your oil to determine that it meets any spec prior to any warranty repair. None.
If the the MB emission system becomes clogged from using high ash oil, they won't cover the warranty. Sorry. Operator error.
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:41 PM   #16
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Absolutely no dealer will sample your oil to determine that it meets any spec prior to any warranty repair. None.
They wouldn't need to, they just want to see the receipts showing what oil was used. No receipts and no maintenance logs in their system = Customer pay for repairs due to improper maintenance.
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Old 04-04-2018, 05:18 PM   #17
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They wouldn't need to, they just want to see the receipts showing what oil was used. No receipts and no maintenance logs in their system = Customer pay for repairs due to improper maintenance.
Exactly. The whole point I was making when I started this thread to begin with, is that I'll spend a pittance per oil change to have an iron clad, warranty supporting, paper trail left with the dealer. Like one OP stated, "To each his own."
I'll take the paper trail for less than 10 bucks per oil change to support *MY* warranty. Everyone else can do what they think is best.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:31 PM   #18
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Putting thicker oil in the newer engines is a mistake. They are designed with tighter tolerances and clearances. Thicker oil will not properly lubricate these engines. Use what the manufacturer recommends. The only exception is using synthetic instead of "dino" oil.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:14 PM   #19
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Putting thicker oil in the newer engines is a mistake. They are designed with tighter tolerances and clearances. Thicker oil will not properly lubricate these engines. Use what the manufacturer recommends. The only exception is using synthetic instead of "dino" oil.
What constitutes "thicker"? Even a 90w oil will flow thru a 2 micron filter. And the tightest clearances in a modern engine is twice that size, at least. It is clearances, not tolerances.

There is a balance when it comes to viscosity. And viscosity is not thickness, it is resistance to flow. Dust off that high school science book.

Now, a motor needs a viscosity that is resistant enough to flow so that it is not squeezed out of high pressure areas too quickly, yet it must flow well enough thru those tight places to do what an oil does besides lubricate.... cool. The balance is good flow for cooling with enough resistance to provide proper boundary lubrication to components.

To the OP's contention, a 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, or a straight 30 are all the same thickness and same viscosity. At full operating temperature, they have the same viscosity, or resistance to flow. Approximately 11cSt at 100c. That they have different cold flow rates does not mean one is thicker or thinner than the other. A 0wXX oil has a cold flow rate down to -35c, a 5wXX has a cold flow down to -25c, etc. The number in front to the "w" designates the cold flow rating, not the viscosity. And certainly not thickness. And these differences only are an issue at cold start up, not at operating temperatures.

A 0w30 will more than adequately protect an engine as will a 5w30, 10w30, or straight 30. And vice versa, under the right ambient temperatures. I wouldn't rely on a straight 30 at -30F simply because it won't get where it is needed properly at that kind of cold it doesn't have a low enough cold flow rating. But at, say, 80F, a straight 30 will do the exact same thing as a 0w30 or 5w30 or 10w30 will. All of these would get the job done just fine.

The only appreciable reason to select an oil is based on the viscosity required, the ambient temperature that the motor has to start up in, and cost. I would use a 5w30 over a 0w30 simply because it is more cost effective and will work in most areas of the country even in the dead of winter. Canada and the U.S. northern border states in the winter, maybe not. A 5w30 can be had a in wide variety of brands and types that one can find one that is the best value. A 0w30 is strictly full synthetic territory. And with the quality of conventional base oils today, full synthetic doesn't have the edge that it used to. Not for the amount of money they want for it.

The additive package, which makes up 20% of any motor oil, has more to do with overall protection than whether the oil is conventional or synthetic. The only time synthetic really has a major edge over conventional is in extreme operating conditions that hardly anyone driving a car or pickup or RV will see. Now I suppose if someone has a Cummins N-14 that is laying down 1400 HP with about 3000 lb of torque, they might want to use synthetic. But the only time I saw a Cummins N-14 laying down that kind of power was in a Pikes Peak Hill Climb competition with semi truck tractors.
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:56 PM   #20
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Actually, a 0w30 is typically thinner then a 5w30 at every operating temperature (100Celcius for testing). All you have to do is look at the cold and 100c viscosity specs online for each brand of oil to validate this yourself.

Another thing, ESP oil is not just low in Ash. ESP is a low SAPs oil which means low sulfur, low ash, and low phosphorus. All of which can cause DPF filter buildup. (please please quit calling diesel emissions systems as DEF, DEF is just one component of a modern diesels emissions)

I own an OM642 which is used on a different vehicle platform. I used nothing but Mobil 1 5w40 ESP which met the MB 229.51 spec. For some odd reason, MB decided to eliminate 5w40 as an acceptable weight and now the thickest ESP you'll find is 5w30 under their newest spec of MB 229.52.

I honestly think the thinner oil spec is to increase fuel economy and the 229.52 spec is for greater oil change intervals.

Personally, 10k OCI or one year is my comfortable max without doing an oil analysis. DPF regeneration has a nasty side effect of fuel dilution which things the viscosity even more over time.

0w30 in my book is just too thin for bearings on a heavily loaded engine and even worse if diluted by raw fuel that leaks past the piston rings during a regeneration. I'm all for saving the planet with increased fuel economy and decreased oil change intervals to reduce used oil waste but NOT as the expense of my engine.

5w30 would ok in my book for winter use but 5w40 is what I'd use in the summer months.

So, I'm still using 5w40 in my OM642 but it is no longer a low SAPs oil that MB calls for. I'm using a traditional synthetic 5w40 in my OM642 powered vehicle and so far it hasn't affected my emission system one bit. It could be that my DEF is hanging on the wall in my garage ;-)

Anyway, oil discussions are so much fun regardless if it is an RV forum, any car forum, a snowmobile forum (they are worse with their 2 stroke discussions), or motorcycle forums.

BTW, I have a 2.0 turbo engine in a Hyundai Santa Fe. The engine was eating bearings because Hyundai originally spec'd a 5w20 oil. Fuel dilution form direct injection thinned the oil too much after 3k miles that it was causing bearing wear. Hyundai went back to 5w30 oil and 5k mile oil change intervals. Fuel dilution isn't just a diesel DPF regeneration issue anymore. It is a real problem with gasoline direct injection engines too! FWIW, I use 5w40 oil in the summer in my Hyundai and 0w40 in the winter. After 5k miles, oil analysis confirms that my oil has sheared and diluted down to a very low (almost high 20 weight) 30 weight oil after 5k miles.

Yes, engine tolerances are "tighter" now aways which is the argument for low viscosity oils. Funny how Ford went from 5w30 to 5w20 oil over the course of one year model for most of their engines even they they hadn't changed in design or tolerances. It was all done to meet CAFE requirements. Satisfy the government at the expense of engine longevity. NO THANKS.
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