Weird ignition lock episode

backdoctor · 11-06-2016, 02:04 PM

Hi all. Eric from the Great White North again. You may recall last Jan as we were about to head to the sunny south, our ignition would get a "click" with nothing else happening. We tried various suggestions (thanks to the board helpers that chimed in, love this board!) But to no avail. The 24r was towed to MB and they determined the interlock for the SCR system (dreaded NOX sensors) had blocked startup. They asked when I'd last filled the DEF, to which I responded, last week, about 1000 km ago. So they cleared the code, and she fired up. Unfortunately the sensors let go (again) in April on a trip to Washington DC. Thanks to the good folks at a Baltimore dealership, they were replaced (again) and we haven't had that happen again (yet).

But yesterday on our way to South Carolina, we were stopped in York PA, for a snooze. I pulled into a spot, locked the doors with the key fob and climbed into bed. On awakening, I climbed into the drivers seat, inserted the key and the dash lit up, and then "click" it went black. I couldn't turn the key (unlike the last episode) and the dash didn't light up. I figured I must have left the headlights on, being tired and stupid! As it was raining, I got out the side door of the coach (not the drivers door) and got my jumper cable. As I still haven't wired the solenoid in the battery control centre.

Nothing!

I was befuddled. The headlights wouldn't turn on, no dash lights. No nothing.

Then I opened the drivers door. Eureka! Everything lit up and we were good to go! WTF?

I figure it must be some sort of anti theft protection, but I've done the same scenario before without this happening.

Anyway, just thought I'd post so if someone else had this happen, they'd open the door before trying to jump the battery.

raptor · 11-07-2016, 12:33 AM

Thanks for posting this message. You are right it's so weird but good information. As always someone in here will come up with sort of solution.

bob dirt · 11-07-2016, 03:13 PM

It sounds like a theft control problem. If you are not going to exit the coach from the drivers side and remotely lock the door after, I would just use the lock button on the dash so it doesn't get confused.

bob dirt · 11-07-2016, 03:33 PM

I tried to get mine to lock out by trying didn't approaches. Couldn't get it to happen.
My Ford pick up alarms the door when you lock it. My coach doesn't.

Delco Bobby · 11-08-2016, 08:00 PM

This situation is where local knowledge is important. The York area has a high concentration of iron and when certain levels of solar flare activity occur the locals know to never lock any thing that can be controled electroically. The magnatism in the area plays havoc with stuff like this.

I recall that a few years ago a Martian vehicle was stuck nearby for a few weeks...

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Glad you resolved your issue for now.

markb422 · 11-08-2016, 09:03 PM

If you have a scan gauge or similar obd instrument can you clear those codes yourself without having to go to a dealer.

raptor · 11-09-2016, 01:27 AM

I have obd2link lx. I hope never have to use on my sprinter but had cleared code on friend old car. It works great on any codes.

Still Kickin · 11-09-2016, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delco Bobby

This situation is where local knowledge is important. The York area has a high concentration of iron and when certain levels of solar flare activity occur the locals know to never lock any thing that can be controled electroically. The magnatism in the area plays havoc with stuff like this.

I recall that a few years ago a Martian vehicle was stuck nearby for a few weeks...

Good news, seems the York area also assited in getting over the HRC disturbance in the force. All is well today :-)

Delco Bobby · 11-09-2016, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

Good news, seems the York area also assited in getting over the HRC disturbance in the force. All is well today :-)

backdoctor · 11-20-2016, 10:09 PM

I posted this in iRV2 earlier to see if anyone else had some ideas. Things have continued:

Now we're having some sort of electrical glitch. If I lock the doors, say to sleep in the rig, and then try to start it without unlocking, there is a click and the dash goes dark and the ignition won't turn at all. The first time this happened, I waited a few seconds, and the the dash lit up and I started. The next time I locked the doors, slept and the unlocked the doors and then dash went black. Nothing happened until I turned on the dome light, then a buzz in the dash (near the speedometer) and the dash lit up. The next time that didn't work, but opening the drivers door worked and the dash lit up and I could start. The next time that didn't work, but I popped the hood and the dash lit up and I started. Next while driving the battery symbol came on (in South Carolina, seeing a pattern? This doesn't happen when I'm in Canada). I stopped and restarted, and it went away. Then two weeks later, while driving the battery light comes on and after stop and restart it's gone, but in the morning as I unlock the doors the dash goes dark. This time nothing works, until I start the Genny and then click/buzz in the dash and I can start.

It seemed to me to be a battery issue, but when I check the battery when the engine is off, it's at 12.6 volts. And when the dash goes dark nothing lights up inside the cab, and the headlights don't work, even the 12 v outlet under the ashtray is dead? I'm baffled... And the dealer can't replicate this intermittent fault. Any thoughts? Could it be a loose connection? Or the anti theft module?

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Eric in Ottawa

bob dirt · 11-29-2016, 12:23 AM

Has anyone pulled the cover off the floor to check the battery connections. I wouldn't assume the dealer did it. Sure sounds like a loose/dirty ground wire if the battery connections are tight.

backdoctor · 11-29-2016, 06:06 AM

Yup. Did that. Clean as a whistle down there. Everything is snug!

Still Kickin · 11-30-2016, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backdoctor

Yup. Did that. Clean as a whistle down there. Everything is snug!

Remember this simple rule. ALWAYS start with the simplist thing first. Because your symptom presents itself after a period of non driving, and your dash is telling you it's a battery issue, then take it to an auto parts store and have them load test the chassis battery from the jump connector under the hood. It's the battery.

OldCoot · 11-30-2016, 08:40 AM

Remove cables from battery and wire brush them until they are shiny, do the same to the battery terminals and all wire connections. Just because they are tight doesn't mean they are conducting electricity. Just fought that battle with my son's lawn mower. Full charged battery. terminals tight, no go. removed cables, scraped them and battery posts and everything worked great.

18CrewDually · 11-30-2016, 09:35 AM

From what you describe your experiencing the modules going to sleep. I'll explain.
Since around 2005 most manufacturers went to a CAN BUS electrical system. The system is made up of modules that are interconnected to communicate with each other. After you shut the key off they still communicate to operate some features. After 20 minutes or so they "go to sleep". If they didn't you would have a dead battery by morning. By locking the doors you may be instantly putting the modules to sleep. The vehicle thinks you're outside.
To "wake up ", the body module is looking for the door switch signal then it wakes up all the other modules to function and start the vehicle.
That's it in a nutshell and manufacturers do it differently. I think this is what you're seeing.

Still Kickin · 11-30-2016, 09:39 AM

Battery is inside the cab not exposed to the elements. Might be the ground to the body on the right side fender under the hood if I recall local, but I still think its an intermittent voltage issue from a possible spent chassis bat. Start simple first.Try both.

Still Kickin · 11-30-2016, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 05CrewDually

From what you describe your experiencing the modules going to sleep. I'll explain.
Since around 2005 most manufacturers went to a CAN BUS electrical system. The system is made up of modules that are interconnected to communicate with each other. After you shut the key off they still communicate to operate some features. After 20 minutes or so they "go to sleep". If they didn't you would have a dead battery by morning. By locking the doors you may be instantly putting the modules to sleep. The vehicle thinks you're outside.
To "wake up ", the body module is looking for the door switch signal then it wakes up all the other modules to function and start the vehicle.
That's it in a nutshell and manufacturers do it differently. I think this is what you're seeing.

But, when you put the key in the ignition, that "wakes up" the system. Just sayin'

18CrewDually · 11-30-2016, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

But, when you put the key in the ignition, that "wakes up" the system. Just sayin'

It's looking for a door un-lock actuation first.

12.6v is a perfectly charged battery.

Still Kickin · 11-30-2016, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 05CrewDually

It's looking for a door un-lock actuation first.

12.6v is a perfectly charged battery.

If that was the case, then don't snooze in any car for more than 20 minutes, letting the systems fall asleep, without opening up the door, then putting in the key, Don't think so. As to the 12.6v, that only tells you the static state of charge at test, it does not tell you the health of the battery, that maybe causing interrupted current during the rest period. Just dbl check the terminals, ground connection and load test the battery, that will eliminate the SIMPLE. Then you can move on from there, if thats not causing the glitch.

18CrewDually · 11-30-2016, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

If that was the case, then don't snooze in any car for more than 20 minutes, letting the systems fall asleep, without opening up the door, then putting in the key, Don't think so. As to the 12.6v, that only tells you the static state of charge at test, it does not tell you the health of the battery, that maybe causing interrupted current during the rest period. Just dbl check the terminals, ground connection and load test the battery, that will eliminate the SIMPLE. Then you can move on from there, if thats not causing the glitch.

You're missing the fact that they are locking the doors which puts it in to a security mode. Second we are not talking about a car. Actually if you reproduce the scenario in my Denali it has similar effects including the horn will sound. But we are not talking about that. Like I said, with CANBUS you can have different effects depending on the manufacturer.

I do agree all the simple obvious should of been done already, including load testing the battery.

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