Help for someone on the precipice of investing in a Vengence Toyhauler.

[nondem]

Hello...I posted here a while back about towing a Vengence fifth-wheel with the F250 I had.
Among other things, I learned I needed more payload capacity to safely accomodate the fifth-wheel size I planned to buy.

So fast-forward to now...I've got a 2017 F350 6.7 Crew Cab w/Dual Rear Wheels which should have no problem towing
any thing I might buy. 5565lbs payload/27500 towing.
After spending months browsing the web and walking through campers - the wife and I have pretty much settled on a Vengence 377V toy hauler: Vengeance Toy Haulers by Forest River RV
We haven't committed to anything yet of course.
We have the money in place and are ready to buy. The use will be vacation OHV camping for a while - but I'm fixing my house up to sell it.
Once sold, we plan to live in it full time till I find a permanent job out West. The idea being, it'll be easier to move our house around as needed
till I find a good place to settle. FTR - I'm an Information Technology Specialist/Manager w/lots of experience if someone is looking

I've got some questions(of course)...

I've read the literature at the FR website...it appears to have aluminum framing in the walls but wooden roof trusses.
I hate wood...is there any reason beyond cost that they went with wood up top?

I've read that new campers these days are plagued with quality control issues...I don't mind a few things but I've previously
purchased a camper that had flaws that the manufacturer warrantied but the fix could never make it as good as it would have been
had it been right to begin with. For example - the dealer had to remove part of the under-covering and short of dissasembling
the entire camper - it was going to be a patch. It eventually fell out - but long after the warranty was history. There was also
a leak that damaged the floor which they also patched...it forever was a patched floor w/a seam where there shouldn't be one.
We don't have a problem with a slightly used camper...there are plenty of 377V's out there to choose from but it only involves
about 20% in savings to get one 2-3 years old. What is a better option?

I've read it takes a couple of hours(problably more) to properly inspect a used or even new camper before purchasing.
Is there a comprehensive checklist somewhere I should use?

Lastly, unless I buy used -I'll be submitting myself to the sales staff somewhere soon...if I have a few specific configuration
needs - am I going to have to give them a deposit to get it here to inspect? I don't mind traveling a bit to save some money
and get what I want but buying one at the local camping world would create some goodwill(hopefully) with the most convenient dealer. Is there any
advice someone could give me on the process? My list of config specifics is minimal...king bed...double sink and maybe no stupid row of
recliners instead of a couch is possible. I'm hoping someone has some ideas on what options are worth it that I haven't thought of.
While on that subject - does anyone know if the furniture is removable? These campers usually have a row of recliners and a
dinette in one area where I'd like to put a regular small table/chairs and a couch.
This picture shows the layout: https://www.creativerv.com/wp-conten...eance-377V.jpg
I'm ok with getting them but if I pull that stuff out am I going to be left with uncovered wall areas and cosmetic issues?

If anyone has input that I haven't prompted - I'd ask that you please produce it. I've not got an ego about what I think I know...I know I'm ignorant here.
I am at the only point where all the mistakes and regret can be avoided. Please help!

[Orangecrush]

My suggestion is to check it out WELL or take someone that knows what to look for. Our first RV was a Vengeance and it was nothing but headaches. Within a month of owning it, Forest River offered to have it go back through the assembly line.

At the end of the day, we ditched it. I will say this... Vengeance had just come out, perhaps they've managed to get it together.

Mark

[KFX450RXC]

Our Vengeance has been pretty good for the most part. Dealing with FR on warranty issues is getting to be almost silly. I had to have my fridge repaired in April. Its a residential fridge so someone came to my house to repair, I pay the bill, and FR reimburses me. That was in April and I'm still waiting on my $600.

You'll hear this often: All manufacturers have their issues. Would I recommend a Vengeance to some one? No. But I wouldn't recommend them to NOT buy one either. Recommending any camper brand these days is sticking your neck out. There's no camper out there that I can honestly say I recommend. For me, it comes down to the old, "if you had to, would you buy your camper again if something happened to the one you have?" The honest answer is, maybe. I'd look at others first and then compare but I definitely wouldn't just run back to my local Vengeance dealer. Its not a Vengeance issue really. Its more of how the FR warranty dept. is a bad joke and now that its been two years since we purchased, there are other nice campers out there I'd need to look at.

By the way. If the roof really is wood, I have only one guess. Wood insulates typically much better than aluminum. I remember some really high end manufacturers were (and may still be) using wood because it made the camper so much more able to withstand extreme temps.

Bets of luck with your new camper, whatever you get. Keep us posted.

[boatman22]

We have had our 377V for a little over 2 years. We have had very small problems with the trailer. Pocket door rollers came off, I replaced with heavy duty ones from Home Depot and solved the problem. Had a problem with one slide seal and FR took care of it. Now some of the major problems we had are not FR but the manufacturers of the fridge(Fridgaire) A/C (Dometic). The fridge has had 2 compressors replaced from Fridgeaire, not FR under their warranty. The Center 15K A/C has been replaced 3 times, yesterday was the third. All under Dometic warranty. The one replaced yesterday I had an RV mobile service do and just paid a service call of $55.00. We have had good luck with Toy Hauler and have pulled it over 15000 miles in 2 years. Let me know if I can answer any question for you about the 377V.

[Kaadk]

Originally Posted by nondem

...but I'm fixing my house up to sell it.
Once sold, we plan to live in it full time till I find a permanent job out West. The idea being, it'll be easier to move our house around as needed
till I find a good place to settle.
...

... I don't mind traveling a bit to save some money
and get what I want but buying one at the local camping world would create some goodwill(hopefully) with the most convenient dealer. ...

If you're planning to move away anyways, do you really need to establish good will with the local dealer? Usually I'm all for buying local, and I love our local dealer, but in your specific case, I would say go where the deal takes you.

[nondem]

I appreciate the input. I kinda wanted to have a relationship w/the local dealer because for at least part of the warranty period I'll still be here. Having said that - I've been to the local Camping world twice now and was repulsed by my experience for various reasons so they are off the table. They don't seem interested in selling anything that isn't sitting on their lot anyway.
So, I've made contact with the closest real Vengence dealer 3 hours away and although I keep browsing the options from other brands - I keep coming back to the 377V.
There are a couple of features that seem to vary from individual camper to camper. Things like a double vs big single sink, Washer-Dryer hookups, auto-level etc...These things are potential deal-breakers if I'm buying new.
If I'm buying new I want to get the exact options I want. I may end up ordering a specific camper...and it looks like I could save $1700 shipping by driving to Indiana and bringing it back myself(have to ask if that is possible)

One thing that kinda makes me worry about these campers is the fact that the Vengence campers run about 15% cheaper than any other model w/the same specs. Why is that?
I did find that at least the wall-framing is Aluminum. The roof is wood-framed and the floor is on steel framing(mostly) with 5/8" plywood decking on the living space floors.
Why are these cheaper? I read that I should expect(or hope for) a sale price of about 75% of MSRP. That is the pricing I'm finding advertised mostly for these.

[cltskybear]

We purchased a new 2017 377v by accident...I jokenly offered the saleswoman 1/2 price for the trailer, and they would have to throw in the fifth wheel hitch, stabilizers, and electric awnings. To my shock, she accepted...shortly after we agreed to deal it was discovered she was looking at the wrong model number and requested an additional 20k due to her error. We had already signed...sooo...we got it, despite her angry outburst, without giving her any extra money. Having said that, it was not our first choice due to the same reviews you have probably already seen.
We have had it for a year now and have done about 10 trips for a total of maybe 1 1/2 months of staying in it.
The first things we did was replace the “China-bomb” tires with Goodyear Endurance and purchased a Tire Pressure Monitor System that screws into the tire air valves (about $250). Too many stories of tires blowing and tearing trailer up.
We then took the master King bed (more like a skinny queen) apart and replaced the stock plywood with a longer and wider sheet and installed legs on the foot end for support..then we ordered an online mattress that fit it pretty good.
We then replaced the cheap TVs with Samsung smart TVs from Sams.

As for issues...the plastic underbelly cover somehow sucked up water when driving through a storm and collapsed it, taking all the insulation with it. You may still find parts of it on I-40 through the Smokeys. FR replaced this with little issue. We had the toy lock replaced twice because it would unwind and not wind back in. We are currently waiting on parts for the rubber hand hold cover for front door, snap on the under seat drawer, and replacement of two of the storage door chains, we also had exterior lighting that was installed after-market by dealer replaced. As you can see, these are minor issues, but issues none the same. My overall opinion, after looking at other brands in the parks and speaking to their owners, is that the Vengeance is really no better or worse than most. As one guy told me “you basically have a cheap, small, single wide trailer that you bounce across the country”.
I have come to notice that simple quality control issues were ignored: different color and type of screws on same component, one of the plastic slide gear covers was installed incorrectly so they put the metal trim on anyway causing it to rip. The shower walls were put in upside down. A coaster on the back patio gate rubs on the rear ramp/door making it square. Once again, relatively minor but irritating things.
We do have the two recliners and hate them, we plan on removing them and installing a sofa soon.
I recognize, when talking to others, that we are very lucky in that we haven’t experienced any major issues as of yet. We recently went out of warranty, so I expect them to come shortly.
I have learned that for small to moderate repairs, it’s easier for me to do them myself using upgraded parts or materials. I know the quality is there then and I’ll won’t have to address it again...plus I hate letting it set at a dealership for a month waiting for them to fix a $5 part.
If you find what you want for the price you want, go for it. All trailers have issues because they make them as cheap and light as possible, kinda like new cars. I pull mine with a ‘17 Ford F-350 DRW 4X4, loaded with a Ultra Limited Harley and a LOT of extra gear/supplies and have never had an issue through the mountains.
Good luck to you!

[valleyduo]

I can't say for sure because we didn't price many higher dollar rv's, but I believe many still utilize wood roof trusses. My guess would be due to cost. Aluminum studs are not expensive for sidewalls, but nowhere near structurally sound enough for roof use. They would need something much heavier duty, which means expensive. As stated earlier, wood also adds insulating properties.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by cltskybear

As for issues...the plastic underbelly cover somehow sucked up water when driving through a storm and collapsed it, taking all the insulation with it. You may still find parts of it on I-40 through the Smokeys. FR replaced this with little issue.

Interesting - my underbelly got sucked off while driving thru Georgia this spring, Weather was sunny and dry and we hadn't driven in rain during the trip. It was however fairly windy 20-30 mph crosswinds. Since the underbelly is not attached on the sides, I think the wind just pulled it down in the middle then it ripped off all the attach points in front of the axle. The underbelly was fold under the axle - lucky it stayed away from the wheels.
FR replaced it while were at the international rally. I'm planning on using strips of Flex Tape to attach it to the frame on the sides.

[cltskybear]

That’s a good idea SailorSam...from what I could see, the side to side seam was only secured with some cheap, almost see through, black plastic tape. I’m looking for a better repair, so let me know how that goes. I’m also wondering if thin sheets of plexiglass would work replacing the cheap plastic they installed at the factory..maybe someone with knowledge about such things can offer me the best option.