2012 Salem Electrical Woes

[cavie]

master electrician here. There are 2 general outlet circuits in your RV. 1 starts at you GFI in the bath and daisy chains from there to include the kitchen and outside. The other circuit will start at the nearest outlet to your panel. I won't say never but very seldom are there more than 2 wires at any one outlet. Nor are there any hidden junction boxes hidden out of sight. Go to the nearest outlet and pull it out of the wall and do your tester work and follow the daisy chain.
You don't need to be an electrician. If you called me to have a look at say $75.00 per hour, this show I would go about it. At best you will have only about 5 outlets to pull out and you will find a bad connection. Check your panel for loose connections. Don't forget about the white neutral wires. Let me know what you find.

[jboczek]

I had a problem with my 30 amp service coming in where I lost the neutral where I was plugged into my shed. I still had 120 volts at the breakers when I checked to ground, but not when I went to the neutral. I'm inclined to say you have an issue where you're plugged into, not at the trailer.

[MarkW.]

Originally Posted by JPSPete20

I suggest a quick test. Drop down to 110 V 15 Amp and try things. You will need to put one, or two drop down plug converts on the trailer input. There is no chance of a wiring problem with the simple 110. Don't try the AC, but all of the plugs should function normally. If the work, one side of the 30/50 you are trying to feed in is dead.

I'll try that. Your talking drop from a 50a to a 30a? I have access to a 30a plug which I can adapt to my 50a shoreline, would that work?

Originally Posted by EDABEUT

You said the only GFCI re-settable plug you can find was in the bathroom but you also said you have a outdoor kitchen. There should be another one outside in that area that probably runs the plugs not working.

There's 2 plugs in the outside kitchen, One is a double outlet, labeled as GFCI, and it works. The other is a single and is behind the outside refrigerator and it is dead. The single is closer to the breaker box and goes the opposite way from the TV plugs from the breaker which are also dead.

[MarkW.]

Originally Posted by jboczek

I had a problem with my 30 amp service coming in where I lost the neutral where I was plugged into my shed. I still had 120 volts at the breakers when I checked to ground, but not when I went to the neutral. I'm inclined to say you have an issue where you're plugged into, not at the trailer.

I am getting 120V at both the neutral and ground bars to the breakers.

[litgrep]

The trailer ac plugs are press in connections and they are typically daisy chained. If the TV was the last to quit I'd check that one and jiggle it out of the wall and go around the trailer with the process. Good luck.

[litgrep]

Others have posted they replace the push to connect with standard screw terminal outlets.

[MarkW.]

Originally Posted by litgrep

The trailer ac plugs are press in connections and they are typically daisy chained. If the TV was the last to quit I'd check that one and jiggle it out of the wall and go around the trailer with the process. Good luck.

I pulled that plug out, as well as 2 plugs designed to charge cell phones which is kinda right next to that plug, and they are all dead. I pulled the plug out that the inside fridge is plugged in and it is also dead and fridge is not running. This plug is barely 18" from the breaker, however ALL of the electrical wires from the breaker go up into the wall behind the oven, then somehow come back down to the fridge plug. Unfortunately, I cannot tell which wire that runs that fridge plug is on the breaker box. The breaker box does not have :Fridge" labeled. The only label I can't figure out is labeled "Gen" but there is no generator in the trailer, but there is a black wire tied to the breaker. So now what?

[Bama Rambler]

Have you pulled the receptacle behind the microwave?

I know you said that the microwave works, but the wires could be loose after it leaves that receptacle.

[litgrep]

You should have only black wires going to the circuit breakers (maybe red with a 50 amp rv connection). Whites and copper should go to the neutral/chassis ground bar. Question, when measuring the 120 at the cb, are you measuring at the screw terminal or to the wire? Could the screw be loose? Turn off power and make sure all those screws are tight. Other than that it's painstaking going from plug to plug to see where you loose it. I would make another check to ma I e sure it's not a gfi. Test and reset all.

[MarkW.]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

Have you pulled the receptacle behind the microwave?

I know you said that the microwave works, but the wires could be loose after it leaves that receptacle.

I have not Bama. I just got off the phone with a Forest River tech, and he suggests running a temporary wire from the breaker to the fridge receptacle and see if that fires up these dead plugs. The microwave has its own breaker, and the breaker marked "Gen" is actually General, not generator. THAT is the breaker I'm looking for. That one runes the fridge and all of the Non GFCI plugs. I tried shorting the wire from the breaker to the fridge and I can't see the short. So if the temporary wire works, that's an easy fix to run a new wire. We'll see!!

[Jay2504]

Mark, you said the outlet that runs the outside fridge is dead. Question please, are there just one set of wires going into that outlet or are there 2 sets of wires behind that outlet? If it’s just one set, then just put it back together. If 2sets you could trace it with an ohmmeter AND THE UNIT COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED FROM ANY POWER SOURCE!!!! The way you described the main fridge operation there is no way we could tell whether it switched to gas or was running on 110volts. In the Auto function there is no real way to know. Pull out the outside panel and check that outlet. You could have a loose connection there. Jay

[cavie]

Originally Posted by MarkW.

I have not Bama. I just got off the phone with a Forest River tech, and he suggests running a temporary wire from the breaker to the fridge receptacle and see if that fires up these dead plugs. The microwave has its own breaker, and the breaker marked "Gen" is actually General, not generator. THAT is the breaker I'm looking for. That one runes the fridge and all of the Non GFCI plugs. I tried shorting the wire from the breaker to the fridge and I can't see the short. So if the temporary wire works, that's an easy fix to run a new wire. We'll see!!

remove ALL nonworking outlets inside and out
.

[MarkW.]

Originally Posted by Jay2504

Mark, you said the outlet that runs the outside fridge is dead. Question please, are there just one set of wires going into that outlet or are there 2 sets of wires behind that outlet? If it’s just one set, then just put it back together. If 2sets you could trace it with an ohmmeter AND THE UNIT COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED FROM ANY POWER SOURCE!!!! The way you described the main fridge operation there is no way we could tell whether it switched to gas or was running on 110volts. In the Auto function there is no real way to know. Pull out the outside panel and check that outlet. You could have a loose connection there. Jay

It has 2 sets of wires. One set of those 2 wires goes to the inside fridge plug, (which is actually accessed from the outside of the trailer in the inspection door). I can short that wire and see the short from the inside fridge outlet. For the inside fridge, I have a gas option which I turned off. The only thing that works are the indicator lights on the front of the fridge and the inside light. No cooling..

[cavie]

Originally Posted by MarkW.

It has 2 sets of wires. One set of those 2 wires goes to the inside fridge plug, (which is actually accessed from the outside of the trailer in the inspection door). I can short that wire and see the short from the inside fridge outlet. For the inside fridge, I have a gas option which I turned off. The only thing that works are the indicator lights on the front of the fridge and the inside light. No cooling..

Those lights are 12 volt. As I stated. Remove all nonworking outlets. Be sure that all breakers are working and ALL wires in the panel are tight.

Also, stop using the word short. A short in the electric world is an unwanted connection of a hot wire to ground. If you can see a short you are looking at a burnt wire.

[D W]

X2 on the use of "short". From everything I've read so far everything points to an open neutral between the CB panel and the first outlet. Easy enough to check with one of these:

[rockfordroo]

Assuming your outlets are "speed box" outlets like this one:


I don't believe you can actually install more than 2 sets of wires in one of these; one set in the bottom, one set in (or more accurately, probably, "out") the top. This why they are typically daisy-chained. Not to mention installed horizontally rather than vertically. Therefore, I don't believe your non-GFCI wiring "splits" and goes forward and rearward as you described. I would expect it to go one direction, then come back around and go the other direction. OR one of your 50 amp circuits feeds outlets up front and the other feeds outlets in the back - at least that's how I'd do it if I were wiring the rig.

UNLESS there's some kind of junction box somewhere that you haven't found yet. But I've never heard of anyone ever reporting that they had a junction box on an RV (other than the one under the tongue (or wherever they put them in 5vers) for the trailer's umbilical to the tow vehicle). But I could be wrong.

[MarkW.]

Originally Posted by cavie

Those lights are 12 volt. As I stated. Remove all nonworking outlets. Be sure that all breakers are working and ALL wires in the panel are tight.

Also, stop using the word short. A short in the electric world is an unwanted connection of a hot wire to ground. If you can see a short you are looking at a burnt wire.

Yes, I understand they are 12v. I fully expected the light to work as there are no blown fuses. I also expected the fridge to not work because it is plugged into an outlet that is not labeled as GFCI. I think I will have to just start removing all working plugs until I hopefully find the one that is not connected.

DW, I sure could use one of those. I did not know they made anything like that.

As far as the term SHORT, I spent 23 years in the telephone industry so the term is what I use when I tie 2 wires together on one side and then try to use my ohm meter to see if at least both wires are making it from one point to the other. I always check for voltage and an existing short across the three wires first. When no shorts or grounds are found, I then try to isolate that one section by shorting the wires together and looking on the other end for them.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by MarkW.

As far as the term SHORT, I spent 23 years in the telephone industry so the term is what I use when I tie 2 wires together on one side and then try to use my ohm meter to see if at least both wires are making it from one point to the other. I always check for voltage and an existing short across the three wires first. When no shorts or grounds are found, I then try to isolate that one section by shorting the wires together and looking on the other end for them.

In my naval aviation electrician days, we just said "checked for continuity."

[D W]

Originally Posted by MarkW.

Yes, I understand they are 12v. I fully expected the light to work as there are no blown fuses. I also expected the fridge to not work because it is plugged into an outlet that is not labeled as GFCI. I think I will have to just start removing all working plugs until I hopefully find the one that is not connected.

DW, I sure could use one of those. I did not know they made anything like that.

As far as the term SHORT, I spent 23 years in the telephone industry so the term is what I use when I tie 2 wires together on one side and then try to use my ohm meter to see if at least both wires are making it from one point to the other. I always check for voltage and an existing short across the three wires first. When no shorts or grounds are found, I then try to isolate that one section by shorting the wires together and looking on the other end for them.

Okay. Fully understand your terminology from the telephone industry, but with 110VAC a short is a really-really bad thing. It either trips a circuit breaker, or starts a fire.

The GFCI Tester is a must have in your RV tool kit. They run about $10 at Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.

There have been cases with these RV outlets where something gets plugged in and the internals of the receptacle push out or break. They are cheap massed produced garbage from China. I have replaced all of mine with Leviton's from Home Depot at $.78 each.

Keep us apprised of your progress and diagnosis.

[Bama Rambler]

It's going to be interesting to know what it turns out to be.