365saq weight ?

[Faulk222]

Originally Posted by AquaMan

I'm curious as to what the ruling actually says. Could you point me to the actual paragraph, so I don't have to read the entire thing?


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heres a earlier quote with the reg#

Originally Posted by golfmedik

The GVWR on ours is 14000, with an unloaded pin weight of 2060 pounds on 6 k axles!

The law changed in '08 as to how they are marked. It is covered well over on RV.net. The FMVSS 571.120 para. S10 is correct and was new as of 6/15/'08. FMVSS 571/S10 fed safety requirements are not being met by all manufacturers yet which can be detrimental to buyers not knowing the law.
.

here is what i can find on the US side

"S10.2 On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR. If tongue weight is specified as a range, the minimum value must be used."

[AquaMan]

Originally Posted by Faulk222

heres a earlier quote with the reg#







here is what i can find on the US side



"S10.2 On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR. If tongue weight is specified as a range, the minimum value must be used."

So, the sum of axle weights (12k) "plus" the recommended tongue weight (2k) must not exceed the the GVWR (14k). What am I missing? The GVWR is a "calculated" weight to begin with. They don't start with that weight and work backwards. When you increase or decrease the the axle weights you increase and decrease your GVWR respectively, which also directly correlates to the cargo carrying capabilities. I still don't see a problem. Every trailer made is like this. It's math. The only problem that exists is the amount of CCC a trailer of this size has. Safety is not an issue unless you grossly overload the trailer. The 6k axle brakes on this trailer are more than capable of stopping a trailer this size, especially in conjunction with a capable vehicle that is required to pull this. I have not once feared for the safety of my family with this trailer, but I also understand the engineering that's involved.


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[TURBS]

Your math looks right to me tim.
All looks good to me.

6000 + 6000 + 2000 = 14,000 in any language.

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "24 nights"

[Faulk222]

my issue with the weight is my trailor do not stop i can put my controler on 10 pull the slider over al the way and just pull through the brakes

before any conclusions are made the brake pads are all in good shape
magnets all have proper AMP draw
adjustments all are good

i am a heavy equipment mechanic myself and live 600 KM up a winding hilly road i put off the brake issue as "well i guess i was hard on them and wore out the pads" i came on to this issue when looking for replacement part availability and trying to see what size they were BEFORE i disassembled them. upon disassembling them the pads were all in good shape and as stated above the magnets were all drawing the proper amperage

weights for my unit not packed for a trip are as follows

steering 2450 KG(5401)
drive 2920 KG(6437)
trailer 5210 KG(11486)

truck empty is

steering 2390 KG(5269)
drive 1820 KG(4012)

GVWR 5897 KG(13000)

GVW of the trailer is 6380 KG(14065)
GVWR is 6378 KG(14061)

putting 1160 KG(2557) in the truck well over the 2000LBS they say

all is in the trailer are some dry goods in the cupboard 5 lawn chairs 2 bottles of propane i did fill the water tanks and a small bit of cloths nothing in either of the fridges and already i am past the GVW of the unit.

i have a family of 5 me and 4 girls (they will pack more cloths then they can wear for the year lol)i cant even put a jug of milk in the trailer and i am running the axles at the MAX of their design

i understand the math but i have no idea who in there right mind came up with these axles for a RV that sleeps 12

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by Faulk222

my issue with the weight is my trailor do not stop i can put my controler on 10 pull the slider over al the way and just pull through the brakes

before any conclusions are made the brake pads are all in good shape
magnets all have proper AMP draw
adjustments all are good

i am a heavy equipment mechanic myself and live 600 KM up a winding hilly road i put off the brake issue as "well i guess i was hard on them and wore out the pads" i came on to this issue when looking for replacement part availability and trying to see what size they were BEFORE i disassembled them. upon disassembling them the pads were all in good shape and as stated above the magnets were all drawing the proper amperage

weights for my unit not packed for a trip are as follows

steering 2450 KG(5401)
drive 2920 KG(6437)
trailer 5210 KG(11486)

truck empty is

steering 2390 KG(5269)
drive 1820 KG(4012)

GVWR 5897 KG(13000)

GVW of the trailer is 6380 KG(14065)
GVWR is 6378 KG(14061)

putting 1160 KG(2557) in the truck well over the 2000LBS they say

all is in the trailer are some dry goods in the cupboard 5 lawn chairs 2 bottles of propane i did fill the water tanks and a small bit of cloths nothing in either of the fridges and already i am past the GVW of the unit.

i have a family of 5 me and 4 girls (they will pack more cloths then they can wear for the year lol)i cant even put a jug of milk in the trailer and i am running the axles at the MAX of their design

i understand the math but i have no idea who in there right mind came up with these axles for a RV that sleeps 12

My camper weights are almost identical same axles near same pin weight and same gvwr and when I shove the lever over it'll literally pull my truck bed down and jerk your head.

IMO something is not right with your brakes.


TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "24 nights"

[AquaMan]

According to my calculations, your trailer weighs 13,911 with a pin weight of 2425.

Drive axle loaded(6437)- drive axle dry(4012) = 2425 pin weight + trailer axle weight(11,486) = 13,911. 149 lbs under GVWR.

The problem you are having is in the braking system, not the size of axle. (I still agree they should have 7k axles for the size of trailer and lack of CCC) I have 6k axles on my 2012 and they will lock up at anything over 7.5 on my GMC integrated controller.


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[Faulk222]

Originally Posted by AquaMan

According to my calculations, your trailer weighs 13,911 with a pin weight of 2425.

Drive axle loaded(6437)- drive axle dry(4012) = 2425 pin weight + trailer axle weight(11,486) = 13,911. 149 lbs under GVWR.

The problem you are having is in the braking system, not the size of axle. (I still agree they should have 7k axles for the size of trailer and lack of CCC) I have 6k axles on my 2012 and they will lock up at anything over 7.5 on my GMC integrated controller.


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dont forget the difference in the steering axle 60KG or 132LBS

my numbers are correct may differ a fwe pounds as i am converting KG to pounds every time the trailer is 3LBS overweight pretty well empty

as stated above shoes are all in good shape
all 4 magnets are in spec for amperage draw about (3.5 each tested with a FLUKE 87 with an AMP ring on the harness of the magnet)
were adjusted jacked up spinning the tire just until a slight drag was felt
drums are all in good shape

i am not a newbie mechanic i have 22 years in heavy equipment there is nowhere else to look for an issue but the axles themselves

by the way total weight of the trailer was with it on the scales by itself

[TURBS]

Btw 2 axle manufacturers I looked at show 6k thru 8k axles all having the same brakes.

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "24 nights"

[AquaMan]

I just don't see how the mechanics of the axle and springs has anything to do with the brakes not being able to stop your trailer. There are thousands of these out there that stop just fine with 6k, including mine. I would look at everything from the controller to the brakes, if you say they are good. Poor wiring connections could give you full momentary amperage but could fade quickly.


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[rwpdir]

Faulk, I feel your pain. Had the same problem. Didn't make any difference what tow vehicle was under my unit it didn't stop. Dealer didn't believe me till he put it on his truck and it pushed him a crossed his lot. All wiring and connections were checked and amped and were good. Called FR and they sent 7k axels for it. Post axles, I get drag now at 5 on the controller. Still doesn't stop the way I think it should but its better than it was. There are times I don't feel drag at all. I still think there is a wiring issue but haven't been able to find anything. Good luck.

[golfmedik]

Run a heavier gauge wire from pin box to the brakes. See if that helps. Several have done this with success.

[Big Bill]

what was your height before the changes? 13-10 will be hard to getaround, trucks have a limit of 13-6 I have a 36ckts that is 13-2

[AquaMan]

Faulk222, have you tried pulling the emergency brake pin to see if the wheels will brake hard? I accidentally had mine pulled out when I was doing a turn around at a fuel station at it about threw me through the windshield. Thought I had hit something! Also, you are correct, I forgot about the change in steering axle weight. That weight, is truck weight that has been transferred to the drive axle and should be taken off the weight of the trailer. 149+132=281 of Cargo left.

[cfisher523]

Heavier wire has helped me.... along with the 7k axle swap, which I think made the biggest difference. The bigger axles have bigger brakes, overall several inches of extra braking surface and that makes a big difference.

Of course the problems never seem to end. If you're concerned about weight and/or your axles check out my the next installment of my never ending saga:
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...les-90180.html

[Faulk222]

Thanks all I am on a cross Canada Track now 2000K on now and brakes are scrap on the truck now because I have a truck that is capable of stopping me but these truck repairs are getting tiring

This issue WILL be fixed this year one way or another may go with the disk conversion if nothing else works

When I get home the wiring will be all ganged to 10 gage and all the crap splices will be proper weather proof connectors

[Faulk222]

on this trip my rear axle started to bend I stopped at my dealer who looked at the axles with the same concern he also emailed forest river

today I got the good news that my 7000# axles are approved and my dealer can order them and I can be fixed back up

wiring will be changed to 10 gauge at the same time

only took 2 months not to bad looking back through the past posts

thanks for the info

[cfisher523]

Originally Posted by Faulk222

on this trip my rear axle started to bend I stopped at my dealer who looked at the axles with the same concern he also emailed forest river

today I got the good news that my 7000# axles are approved and my dealer can order them and I can be fixed back up

wiring will be changed to 10 gauge at the same time

only took 2 months not to bad looking back through the past posts

thanks for the info

Please report this to the NHTSA. I understand Forest River is fixing this and that's great, but the NHTSA doesn't know how wide spread a problem this is. I've dealt with this issue and now (I believe as a result of the 6k axles) I have bent and broken cross-members in my frame. I would check your frame just before and just behind your axles. My threads are below and again, please report to NHTSA so they understand the true scope of these issues.....

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...nts-90808.html

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...les-90180.html