365saq weight ?

[supercab79]

I will keep you guys updated it's just AGGRIVATING that the people who are supposed to know this stuff are clueless. I have to agree that a rig this size should not be built to run on the ragged edge. Any failure at speed with something this large would be a dangerous situation. Plus the huge amount of storage space added to the fact that this unit is built to accommodate a family of at least 4 you would think that there would be plenty of loading capacity.

[golfmedik]

I would really be interested to see what your rigs weigh. I weighed mine last summer coming home from a week long vacation at the lake. I was TOTALLY shocked at the result.
I carry 3 bikes on the pin box as you can see, but that weight is over the bed of the truck and on the rear axle. I have lightened the rig up a little, but not much. I am leary of posting a pic of the scale ticket on here because I know the 'weight police' would be all over all of us! That is what started this entire incident with me. It really could get very dicey. I'm sure this is not the only rig out there like this. The 355's are very close to the weight of the 365's and many manufacturers have a floor plan similar to this due to its popularity. But, when you look at the websites, you see a lot come with bigger axles.

[cmptrkd]

I see on ebay where you can get 2 7000lb Dexter axles with brakes for 765.00 I know then I need to get them installed and buy wheels and tires. I wonder if this is worth it.

(2) NEW 7000 LB 7K BRAKE AXLES 95 HF 80 SC TRAILERS PARTS DEXTER AXLES | eBay

A few options to choose from. Obviously I'd need to do more research on exactly what I have on my 365 to do a real quote. I have complained about the cargo carrying capacity though, I am sitting better then golfmedik, I have roughly 1400lbs carrying capacity. Though I am quite sure I am over that. We set our camper up like our second house. We can decide to camp and all we need is milk, bread, and eggs. It's loaded with everything from toiletries, to clothes, to household supplies. By the time I add water, and all the crap that's in there, I am sure we're over substantially. I'll make plans to weigh it next weekend. We're planning a trip out.

[golfmedik]

Originally Posted by cmptrkd

I see on ebay where you can get 2 7000lb Dexter axles with brakes for 765.00 I know then I need to get them installed and buy wheels and tires. I wonder if this is worth it.

(2) NEW 7000 LB 7K BRAKE AXLES 95 HF 80 SC TRAILERS PARTS DEXTER AXLES | eBay

A few options to choose from. Obviously I'd need to do more research on exactly what I have on my 365 to do a real quote. I have complained about the cargo carrying capacity though, I am sitting better then golfmedik, I have roughly 1400lbs carrying capacity. Though I am quite sure I am over that. We set our camper up like our second house. We can decide to camp and all we need is milk, bread, and eggs. It's loaded with everything from toiletries, to clothes, to household supplies. By the time I add water, and all the crap that's in there, I am sure we're over substantially. I'll make plans to weigh it next weekend. We're planning a trip out.

I've contemplated doing an axle swap myself. But then, I really get peeved that I am going to have to spend more money on what should have been done at the factory. I've already replaced the generic 'china' made tires at $1200. If it were simply removing the old axles and putting in the new ones and hooking up the wires, I'd be all for it. But I wonder if the springs are the same length so you don't have to weld on new shackles and then come the wheels. I'd have to buy a new set of wheels in an 8 lug pattern. As far as tires, I'd be ok. The wheels really wouldn't be that big of a deal I guess as there is a Tredit Tire 40 miles from home that I am near at least twice a week. When I did some research at Dexter Axle site a few months ago, and looking at Etrailer, there was less than $25 per axle difference between a 6k and a 7k alxe. That's when I really got ill! YOu know if it's available to me for that price difference, then those that buy them in bulk would pay less than that! When I get back next week, I am going to my dealer and talk with them. I'll let you know what they say. The more I think about this the more concerning it is. I know I carry a lot of stuff in the camper as we are usually gone for several days at a time, but ther should be more CCC weight on these units than this.

[pdchristensen]

Originally Posted by supercab79

Monty,

On another note, dexter was a very helpful company to deal with and was the only vender to answer the phone. I will keep you updated.
Marc

I just finished dealing with Dexter to complete an axle upgrade on my 2013 Vibe from 3500 lb to 6000 lb. At first was considering Lippert, however found that Dexter seemed more on the ball with taking phone calls and having the "right" answers with respect to axle requirements and margins for safety on trailer GVWR.

[golfmedik]

supercab79, Hey Marc, PM sent to you. Look under your name at top right of page and click on 'Private Messages'. forgive me if you already know how to do this.

Monty

[supercab79]

Well finally some info but not without pulling teeth to get it. I was able to actually speak to a FR rep today that was a little stand offish and somewhat clueless but was able to return a phone call with some information.

1st I was told that FR especially the Sandpiper line does not offer a 7K axle upgrade.

2nd I was given another smoke and mirror explanation about pin weight/axle loading/balance and how 7K axles would cause FR to have to redesign the entire unit and they were not necessary.

3rd I was strongly advised to contact Lippert for axle/chassis issues.
After a total waste of time speaking with 2 different Lippert reps I just hung up on the second lady who was actually rude.

Then the FR reps return call.

1st of all his tone was much different than our 1st conversation. He was very shocked to info me that not only was the 7K axle an option but it was being offered due to past customer requests and concerns.

2nd he asked me if I was a current owner of this model and was I having an overloading issue. I explained I have a unit on order and was trying to avoid having issues by ordering the proper equipmen from the startt.

3rd He confirmed that the 7K axles do come with 8 lug wheels but couldn't answer the question if they were the plain standard aluminum pieces or the fancier upgraded wheels. (I had ordered the upgraded wheels)

4th He apologized about the dealers being so clueless.

So there it is the 2013 Sandpiper 365saq is now being offered with 7K axles as a $500 upgrade. They are 8 lug but still using the load range E China Bomb/May pop tires as before. Lippert and the stealership are clueless.
Dexter seems to be a much more competent organization it's a shame FR doesn't use their product. No matter what happens the 365 SAQ is still a fantastic floor plan. Can't wait till 10/25/12 for it to come.

Thanks for the interest.
Marc

[golfmedik]

Originally Posted by supercab79

Well finally

2nd he asked me if I was a current owner of this model and was I having an overloading issue. I explained I have a unit on order and was trying to avoid having issues by ordering the proper equipmen from the startt.

3rd He confirmed that the 7K axles do come with 8 lug wheels but couldn't answer the question if they were the plain standard aluminum pieces or the fancier upgraded wheels. (I had ordered the upgraded wheels)

4th He apologized about the dealers being so clueless.

So there it is the 2013 Sandpiper 365saq is now being offered with 7K axles as a $500 upgrade. They are 8 lug but still using the load range E China Bomb/May pop tires as before. Lippert and the stealership are clueless.
Dexter seems to be a much more competent organization it's a shame FR doesn't use their product. No matter what happens the 365 SAQ is still a fantastic floor plan. Can't wait till 10/25/12 for it to come.

Thanks for the interest.
Marc

I am glad you made progress! I sincerely hope that the unit comes in as you ordered it and have many trouble free years with it! Sounds like I will be visiting my dealer when I get back from my trip this week. Knowing the way I am, this is going to get very interesting! If the axles and springs are 'plug and play' it would make it much easier as to a solution. As stated on an earlier post, I changed to Goodyear G614(many others out there close to this rating-just the ones I chose) tires with a load capacity of 3750(IIRC) per tire. Changing the axles, I would still have more tire than axles. I am going to be calling my buddy at Tredit Tire when I get back as well, to see what kind of pricing I can get on new 8 lug wheels. I want to have some more ammo to go to the dealer with.
Also, not sure if you guys know this or not, but 7k axle wheels will not fit 8k axle wheels. IIRC both are 8 lug wheels and look very similar, but the 7k have 9/16" studs and the 8k have 5/8" studs. Just throwing that out there.

Marc, keep us posted and I would love to see pics of your new rig, inside and out when it gets here!

Monty

[golfmedik]

Originally Posted by ttrost65

I have the outside kitchen with fridge and the lighter color corian counters. The things you mention, aside from your 2nd A/C from factory, are all after the posted weight. I really should be 100lbs or so of your posted weight, not 400.

The other thing that strikes me as different is the cabinet configuration in the master and in the tv area. Mine looks like this in the master.

As you can see, I have the 4 drawer chest in the bedroom and the front closet doors have been changed.
The tv area looks like this:

With the floor to ceiling cabinets. This maybe where some of the weight difference comes from. Also, my rig have 3 windows going up the side aisle steps. There were many changes in the design of the 365 in 2012. From the time I orderd mine, to receiving it was only 35 days. They had an opening on the line and I took it. It was on the line 4 days after ordering. Within a month of receiving mine, our dealer had 2 more come onto the lot and the changes were obvious. Front closet wall, chest in master BR, wider side aisle, two windows up the steps instead of 3, hydraulic jacks, changes in the placement of the outside fridge(from door under sink to outside kitchen) and a few other minor things. I beleive most of this was done due to weight. That's why I am going back to my dealer and contact my factory rep to ask "what's up and WHY!"

[cmptrkd]

GolfMedik. I also have the same 2012 model as you, with the interior configured this way. We installed the whirlpool washer and dryer (more weight) but actually like the bedroom configured the way your and my models are. I also like our outside kitchen with the fridge installed in it's own cabinet. The window, I could do with or without. When the door is open, it blocks that window anyway. Also in the livingroom, the large glass cabinet, ours came with smoked glass which I like a lot, and we keep games and stuff in there. When it comes down to it, The only thing I like a lot more on the new configuration is the upper kitchen cabinets. They quoted me almost 1550 to send me new uppers. I don't understand how they can be that expensive, therefore I am not upgrading. I'll spend the money on the axles first. Also wondering what the factory rep was going to get to when asking supercab if he was overloading his unit. I wonder if they will have an option for some of us to get upgraded axles without paying a ton... then again, they're in business to make money. Just wondering what to do. Supercab79, do you know who you spoke to, at least since you finally talked to someone who knows something, we could talk to the same person. Even better if we don't bring up the forum, they might really realize they have left us a little handicap'd on cargo carrying capacity.

[golfmedik]

Originally Posted by cmptrkd

GolfMedik. ... Also wondering what the factory rep was going to get to when asking supercab if he was overloading his unit. I wonder if they will have an option for some of us to get upgraded axles without paying a ton... then again, they're in business to make money. Just wondering what to do. Supercab79, do you know who you spoke to, at least since you finally talked to someone who knows something, we could talk to the same person. Even better if we don't bring up the forum, they might really realize they have left us a little handicap'd on cargo carrying capacity.

I believe it is obvious that they know they have a problem. I know our factory rep knows that because I nearly refused the trailer to begin with for this very reason. In retrospect, I should've taken the trailer straight to the scales before putting anything in there. I am going to go through the dealer to begin with a give them a chance to work with me. I bought 2 5ers from them in 11 months('11 355QBQ and '12 365SAQ) so they may be inclined to help. Who knows? They may even be reading this as we write these posts. I also 'liked' Sandpiper RVs on Facebook several months ago and posted on the pics that I would not buy another until they changed axles. Of course, I got no response. I am finally glad that someone else is paying attention to this matter. By far, I am not the 'weight police', however they have created a potential hazard for not only my family, but any other people on the road. To say the least, I am not happy. Let's just hope we can get the ball rolling to get a decent resolution. I love the camper, no doubt. Just would like to be more at ease while on the road with it.

[Dave_Monica]

Keep the pressure on...they'll foot-drag, whine and whimper, but in the end they know they'll have to correct the low CCC issue by upping axle rating as a no cost option.

Forest River will not want to keep reading negative comments on forums such as this.

It's really unfortunate given that is such a nice camper...

Dave

[supercab79]

I do have a contact name and number he wasn't much help at first but warmed up a little and I mean alittle on call back. PM me for info.

Thanks Marc

[golfmedik]

I spoke to my dealer yesterday and I have a meeting with the GM on Monday. I briefly told my salesman of the problem and he was pretty concerned. He went out to the lot and looked at 2 365s and mine was the heaviest by far! So, apparently, they have cut down quite a bit on weight. The heaviest was just over 1100 pounds lighter than the sticker on mine! I have a feeling this is going to get interesting. Will keep you guys updated as I can.

Monty

[supercab79]

That sounds promising. At least they sound receptive and aren't giving you the "your crazy and over reacting" routine.

[golfmedik]

Not yet.. the GM may do it though. If all goes decently for me this weekend, I am going to meet with them on Monday. I'll let you know.

Monty

[golfmedik]

The meeting went very well. When I presented everything to the dealer GM, including scale tickets, he saw that there was a problem too. He called the factory rep and we talked for a while. The rep stated that he thought my camper was 'way' overweight and that I should lighten the load. THe GM told him that he has been in my camper on more than one occasion and assured him that I carried no more 'stuff' than anyone else that he had ever seen. During our discussion, I told the rep that I thought it was funny that they advertise a weight of 11,873 and with a GVWR of 14000 pounds, that doesn't give you a lot of room for things like options. The rep said, " I don't know where you got your figures from, but there hasn't been a 365 that has left here that weighs under 12,000 pounds." I told him that I was looking at the Sandpiper/Sierra website and brochures as we were talking. He didn't know what to say for a moment. Then responded with, 'something is wrong then, someone somewhere has teh wrong weights published."
He said that there scales are set up at the end of the factory line and each unit is weighed and the GVWR stickers are put on as they leave there, based on each units options. He nearly flipped when I told him tha my sitcker says I have a 'dry weight' of 13,035 pounds. He then tried to explain that you take away the hitch weight , which did not go over well, due to the overall gvwr of 14,000 pounds as stated on the sticker, My camper, as most of you have seen, has a cargo carrying capacity of 966 pounds coming from the factory. I explained to him that my unit was ordered with the gen prep option and when the 279 pound Onan generator was put in, with the extra battery and full bottles of propane, I only had a CCC of 597 pounds for a camper built to sleep 12 people! Then, we like to dry camp some, so when water is added, 460 pounds, I have a whopping 137 pounds of cargo weight available befroe I put the first spoon in my camper! And again, it's built to sleep 12!!!!!!
The rep did state that 7k axles are an option now, but he has not had anyone take that option from his dealers, to which my dealer GM replied, probably because it is not on the option/build sheets that the dealers have! The rep didn't know what to say then other than to ask for a copy of my scale tickets. I told him, granted, the tickets were coming HOME from 9 days at the lake and was done a little over a year ago, but that they are 'real world' weights that people use in these rigs. I also explained that if in a accident, I could possibly be charged for being overweight and that might effect how the insurance claim is handled. He was also told, by myself and the dealer, that no other units of this length and weigth were on the market with 6k axles under them. I spent almost 20 minutes with the delae showing website of other similar campers before making the call.
Overall, I think he finally understood that we have an issue here. He asked that we send him copies of all of my figures and weights and that he would turn them over to their engineers and the 'BAD WORD HERE' "legal" department. He told me that I would probably be hearing from someone in one of those departments next. I explained that I would talk to someone form engineering but not the legal department first. He said he understood. I will not discuss 'legal' things here as they may violate forum rules. I realize this is going to be a lengthy process, but the ball has begun to move. I just hope that more people begin to pay attention to the wieghts in reference to the factory settings and opt for bigger axles, not simply to be able to haul more, but to give them the extra cushion of not getting into trouble later down the road. If they are reading this, after this post, they will know exactly who I am. So, if available, I will let you guys/gals know when I hear something else.

[AquaMan]

Sounds somewhat positive for you, but I think since I have a 1400# payload, I doubt they would do much for me. I've yet to weigh mine fully stocked, but doubt that I go that much. I hope they at least, make a spot on exception for you and upgrade your running gear. I may give it a try though, if you have success. Keep up the fight!

[golfmedik]

Originally Posted by ttrost65

Sounds somewhat positive for you, but I think since I have a 1400# payload, I doubt they would do much for me. I've yet to weigh mine fully stocked, but doubt that I go that much. I hope they at least, make a spot on exception for you and upgrade your running gear. I may give it a try though, if you have success. Keep up the fight!

I went through 2 more on the lot yesterday and compared. You can see where, through changes, they have saved some weight. I still love this unit. Best floor plan aorund for us with kids! If you get a chance and have a CAT scale near you. go weigh it. That way you will know and can adjust if need be. That is my problem, I have no room for adjustment. I'm afraid the figth could be long and drawn out though.

[fschambe]

How much weight do you think they saved by moving the fridge outside to kitchen and tossed the extra compartment and slide out shelf for the stove? I am guessing the fall units with hydraulic landing gear and electric rear stabs would add some weight?