Black Tank Shut-off/Drain Valve

[ingalmi]

Sandpipers'
I experienced a problem with being able to close the black water tank valve after dumping or flushing. Probably like most Sandpiper models 3 remote cable controls are located at the docking station which allow for "easy" access to control each shut-off valve (black, grey, galley). Unfortunately looking at the individual valves is impossible without removing at least a portion of the bottom enclosure, no access panels are available at least on my unit and to gain access you have to cut the coraflex(sp) cover. I contemplated taking it back to the dealer but dealer experience has been less than desirable and I figure I probably know as much as they do. When I got it opened up I found the problem, the control cable had been pinched during installation and the installation did not follow the recommended routing and securing called out by the cable assembly manufacturer (Valterra). The cable was not clamped or tied anywhere along its travel of about 8 ft. additionally sharp bends were at both ends which far exceeded the cable specs. But.............., that wasn't the only thing I found! Electrical wiring, waterlines, hydraulic lines, etc, were laying loose, no clamps or ties or anything else to help hold things together. The only thing keeping all this off the road was the bottom coraflex cover. Good thing FR doesn't build aircraft! I'm venting, but just another example of poor to no quality at FR. My model is 2016 35ROK bought new June 2016. This forum is a great place to share with other owners but I wonder if FR bothers to read any of the numerous posts?

[donniedu]

Nothing untypical for the RV industry. When we first brought our Cedar Creek home I spend several evenings cleaning up the wiring mess. Didnt complain, just fixed it.

[ingalmi]

I may be a junior member to this forum but I'm certainly not a junior member to RV'ing! I'm really tired of hearing what seems to be by some acceptable or that's the way the RV industry is. There in lies the problem. Too many people like us are willing to just fix it instead of pressing the issue. I might be willing to accept a "one time occurrence" but not the case in this industry.

[Decon Blue]

After being a Full Time RVer for 20 years this month I can easily say nothing surprises me anymore. Pride in workmanship is way down. I believe the majority of RV's used to be built up north by craftsmen Amish folks. Now as with most things the RV industry had went with cheap materials, labor and the result is American assembled overseas supplied junk. JMHO. With that said most dealers are not equipped with proper materials or knowledge to do repairs and if they are it's not in a timely manor. I have just bite the bullet and do majority of redo's myself and avoid the hassle.

[northstar1960]

anyone who buys an rv needs to remove the underbelly and secure all wiring , water lines , and tighten all fitting . it's not lack of quality control it's just the cheap careless way they do things FR is no exception, it's all profit and do as little as they can get away with.
the underneath of your unit is no different then any that come off the line , It's not like they missed one or two they do them all that way and is not considered a warranty issue cause that's the way the make them . it was the first thing i did on my unit . no wonder i don't have leaks or electrical issues . took care of that before it could happen .

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by ingalmi

I may be a junior member to this forum but I'm certainly not a junior member to RV'ing! I'm really tired of hearing what seems to be by some acceptable or that's the way the RV industry is. There in lies the problem. Too many people like us are willing to just fix it instead of pressing the issue. I might be willing to accept a "one time occurrence" but not the case in this industry.

So what are you going to do to fix the root problem?

[commishh]

What Forrest River needs to improve quality is a healthy dose of foreign competition, look at the Automobile industry, Toyota and Honda forced GM and the rest of the American builders to get it together, the same thing could happen in the RV industry. What ever happened to American pride? I still think most of it comes from the corporate bosses that are more interested in production than quality and the product AND the customers suffer. This is more because the corporate bosses are college educated and they do not have the mind set to realize they are only screwing themselves. Some day someone will come along and Forest River could be a memory!!

[bob caldwell]

Originally Posted by ependydad

So what are you going to do to fix the root problem?

Figuring out how to tow the sticks and bricks......

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by bob caldwell

Figuring out how to tow the sticks and bricks......

Mmmmhmmmm. I built a house back around 2000. I had quite a few new shakeout issues with that too!

[sfsgm]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

anyone who buys an rv needs to remove the underbelly and secure all wiring , water lines , and tighten all fitting . it's not lack of quality control it's just the cheap careless way they do things FR is no exception, it's all profit and do as little as they can get away with.
the underneath of your unit is no different then any that come off the line , It's not like they missed one or two they do them all that way and is not considered a warranty issue cause that's the way the make them . it was the first thing i did on my unit . no wonder i don't have leaks or electrical issues . took care of that before it could happen .

Careless IS lack of quality control.

[bob caldwell]

New wood.....gotta have the old stuff! lol

[D_B Travelers]

Talking about RV quality is kind of like talking about the weather. Lots to discuss but we have no impact on what happens. Unless we go inside the house, or quit buying RV's to put pressure on the manufacturer's. And no one seems to want to do that, including me, that is why projected sales are up double digits again this year on RVs delivered.

Greg Gerber wrote an 8 part series in his weekly newsletter called "RV Industry Death Spiral" that looked at different segments of the current quality/pride issue. I have attached the PDF version of the series here and recommend all current and potential RV owners/buyers read it. It opened my eyes and also gave me some insight as to why our dealers seem so limited as to what they will do post sale. My opinion only I think it is going to boil down to our favorite government stepping in to assign responsibility for a quality product to the builder. For the most part, all trucks, cars, and houses are quality built because there are safety guidelines and standards that must be met or the manufacturer faces huge fines and terrible PR. The only way this will happen is if RV'ers band together and create lobbyists or public concern organizations that will bring these issues to light. RV'ing is a choice and not a necessity (some will argue this point) so that mitigates the importance of issues to the general public who do not own an RV. But this general public is exactly the group that the Go Rving, RVIA, and manufacturers are focused on selling new RVs to. If we RV owners bring this issue to light in news casts, mainstream print media, and to our congressmen it will take on a different level of importance for the builders. Like I said: my opinion. And I am looking for a new 5th wheel in 2017; just have taken off the rose-colored glasses.

[ingalmi]

fixed all the issues found including a new cable assembly. clamped or tied everything I found that was either loose or mis-routed. Takes some time to do but well worth it and the black tank shut-off valve works perfectly now.

[Decon Blue]

Originally Posted by ingalmi

fixed all the issues found including a new cable assembly. clamped or tied everything I found that was either loose or mis-routed. Takes some time to do but well worth it and the black tank shut-off valve works perfectly now.

Sounds like you got a good start on things.

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by ingalmi

fixed all the issues found including a new cable assembly. clamped or tied everything I found that was either loose or mis-routed. Takes some time to do but well worth it and the black tank shut-off valve works perfectly now.

Good news!
Three cheers!

[txredfish]

I bought my first RV about 18 years ago. Since then I have had 3 rv. First 3 no problems and very well built. Already 14 problems on this one I bought about a year ago. Dealer fixed them but took about 3 months. Bought the trailer and could not use for 3 months after purchase. All of them could have been caught at the factory with decent quality control before leaving the factory. I would bet the company CO with expensive car would not have put up with that right after purchase and not be able to use his car for 3 months.

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by sfsgm

Careless IS lack of quality control.

Careless would be something done intentional or simply forgotten about . these units are built deliberate this way with just stringing water lines and electric line all over underneath . it is what it is . they need to change the operation and include going one step further with running the water and electric lines . but it would cost more it may take an additional 10 mins .i'm sure they figure no one will see it .

[Mdaniels4]

I had a similar black tank sticking cable on my new 2011 grand junction. I bypassed the problem completely. Left the black tank always opened, greys closed and a older style main drain valve to keep that closed until ready to drain. I was always scared to death that cable would break in the closed position. Plan on doing that again with my cottage. Way better piece of mind.

[Prophead]

So how do you remove the underlayment. Mines has a nail shank with a hex bolt head. Is there a specialty tool for removal & reinstalling?

[brad2388]

Originally Posted by Prophead

So how do you remove the underlayment. Mines has a nail shank with a hex bolt head. Is there a specialty tool for removal & reinstalling?

I took a 5/16 nut driver and they kinda backed out.