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Old 03-17-2015, 01:13 PM   #31
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Thanks.
Now, for my own learnin', what about comparing damage from extra torque against damage from extra weight.
Thanks in advance.
With reference to what? I will not engage in a discussion if you are referring to my towing a 5er with my Silverado 1500.
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:39 PM   #32
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thats a pretty cool design. I particularly like the adapter to the gooseneck ball in bed, much easier than a ranch hitch adapter install. I just chatted with Andersen about the need for safety chains, since its a ball and not a pin. Its clear in all states except Indiana. So, no safety chains to fool with...Sweet!
In Canada, my understanding is, if its on a ball it needs safety chains!
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:49 PM   #33
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Finding it hard to grasp the controversy about hooking safety chains. Takes but a few seconds and eliminates any possible confrontation from a state trooper regardless of what state you're in.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:42 PM   #34
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With reference to what? I will not engage in a discussion if you are referring to my towing a 5er with my Silverado 1500.

Hey, let's leave your rig out of this for now (and mine, too, for that matter). I mussa failed to hit the clarity button. If person A (not you or me) puts 500 additional pounds of shoes, cantaloupes, etc., in the front of his trailer using a standard fifth wheel hitch, is he likely to cause more or less damage to his PB and/or SS than person B (me and/or other Andersen Ultimate [ab]users) who add the same amount of extra torque by using this forward offset adaptor. Torque to plain weight. I'm not setting a trap here. I'm asking if 500 extra lbs. of torque is easier/harder on the PB / SS than 500 extra lbs. of plain weight just for my understanding.

Thx.


Sent (I think)
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Old 03-17-2015, 03:22 PM   #35
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Hey, let's leave your rig out of this for now (and mine, too, for that matter). I mussa failed to hit the clarity button. If person A (not you or me) puts 500 additional pounds of shoes, cantaloupes, etc., in the front of his trailer using a standard fifth wheel hitch, is he likely to cause more or less damage to his PB and/or SS than person B (me and/or other Andersen Ultimate [ab]users) who add the same amount of extra torque by using this forward offset adaptor. Torque to plain weight. I'm not setting a trap here. I'm asking if 500 extra lbs. of torque is easier/harder on the PB / SS than 500 extra lbs. of plain weight just for my understanding.

Thx.
I think the additional torque from the adaptor would do more harm as neither the pb &/or ss are designed for a 33% increase in pin weight torque. Whereas the extra 500 lbs (tremendous addition considering it is 20% of a load) would not be as damaging as there has to be a safety factor built into them. JMHO.

The adaptor not only increases the torque on the pb/ss but also increases the hitch wt. I personally just wouldn't do it to a FR built product. As said before, JMHO
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:06 PM   #36
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I think the additional torque from the adaptor would do more harm as neither the pb &/or ss are designed for a 33% increase in pin weight torque. Whereas the extra 500 lbs (tremendous addition considering it is 20% of a load) would not be as damaging as there has to be a safety factor built into them. JMHO.

The adaptor not only increases the torque on the pb/ss but also increases the hitch wt. I personally just wouldn't do it to a FR built product. As said before, JMHO
Thanks.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:16 PM   #37
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I have a reese goose box on my 315 (same basic idea) that was dealer installed on the trailer new with parts obtained from lippert including the saftey chains.
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Old 03-17-2015, 11:40 PM   #38
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I saw on the Grand Design forum where an Andersen user flipped his adaptor 180deg so that the pivot point would shift on the pinbox and thus cause his entire pinbox to reside and rotate within the truck bed walls. To compensate for the resulting 4" shift of the Andersen top ball back 4" away from truck axle, he changed out his flip ball for one of the Curt bed balls that is built with a 4" extension plate.

Basically, fliping the Andersen adaptor moved pivot point and put the 5er nose 4" closer to the truck cab. The Curt ball extension reversed and negated the 4" closer to cab move.

Im going this same route. It will eliminate the pinbox added torque. It will let me use the lowest Andersen setting to bring the trailer closer to level. Lastly it remedies the chance for a pinbox to bed rail collision that could happen in an extreme jack with the Andersen in the low position.

For me, addressing this extra pin torque was just a bonus. My goal is working toward a level tow.
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Old 03-18-2015, 12:13 AM   #39
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I think the additional torque from the adaptor would do more harm as neither the pb &/or ss are designed for a 33% increase in pin weight torque. Whereas the extra 500 lbs (tremendous addition considering it is 20% of a load) would not be as damaging as there has to be a safety factor built into them. JMHO.

The adaptor not only increases the torque on the pb/ss but also increases the hitch wt. I personally just wouldn't do it to a FR built product. As said before, JMHO
the pivot point of the torque load should be the forward mount of the pinbox to the frame. so, in the case of a medium pinbox as pictured with the pin located approximately 16" in front of the mount, were looking at a torque load increase of 25%. reversing the adapter should reduce shear factor on mounting bolts since the torque loads are reduced. unless im missing something...

edit: of course i am. myself and OC are negating the vertical drop of the pinbox as well. think about the torque factor of just a gooseneck conversion even without an offset.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:15 AM   #40
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I saw on the Grand Design forum where an Andersen user flipped his adaptor 180deg so that the pivot point would shift on the pinbox and thus cause his entire pinbox to reside and rotate within the truck bed walls. To compensate for the resulting 4" shift of the Andersen top ball back 4" away from truck axle, he changed out his flip ball for one of the Curt bed balls that is built with a 4" extension plate.

Basically, fliping the Andersen adaptor moved pivot point and put the 5er nose 4" closer to the truck cab. The Curt ball extension reversed and negated the 4" closer to cab move.

Im going this same route. It will eliminate the pinbox added torque. It will let me use the lowest Andersen setting to bring the trailer closer to level. Lastly it remedies the chance for a pinbox to bed rail collision that could happen in an extreme jack with the Andersen in the low position.

For me, addressing this extra pin torque was just a bonus. My goal is working toward a level tow.
Bill, we may have a terminology mismatch here. I've been using the term "adapter" for what I see Andersen Hitches calls the kingpin coupler - referring to the rectangular block bolted to the trailer's kingpin and having the ball socket into which the bed mount ball is placed. That said, rotating this coupler 180° will move the trailer's nose 8" closer to the truck cab, not 4" IF my measurement of 4" between center of ball socket and center of kingpin is correct. So the ball socket would move from 4" in front of the kingpin to 4" behind for a total of 8". This may not matter to your plan but it might matter to plans of others including myself.

Secondly, rotating this coupler 180° will not move the top ball in the bed mount any distance relative to the truck's axle. Plainer ==> a change to the coupler does not move the ball.

If you're using the term 'adapter' for what I called the 'pyramid' and Andersen calls the 'base' and the 'pyramid base', rotating same WILL move the top ball relative to the truck axle but more like 11" than 4". The top ball on my pyramid base is approx. 5.5" behind my underbed mounted B&W Turnover Ball so that rotating the pyramid base 180° moves the top Andersen ball about 11" forward. Also, my pyramid base has an Andersen warning label that states the one and only orientation that should be used for said base.
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