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07-05-2013, 07:20 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfordroo
Pretty brash accusation without any investigation. Bad welds, by WELDERS, not engineers, happen all the time.
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If you look at the pictures, those welds did not fail. But of course, this area is not where the failure started. But you are correct, we are not 100% sure what the cause was, hopefully the OP will let us know.
But if you check for other similar failures, you will find that the main beam across the front of the camper, has broken. The welds did not fail, the beam itself failed. That will only happen if the beam is undersized, which causes it to flex too much, which leads to fatigue failure. Or the design of the structure creates stress points that leads to fatigue cracks, which leads to total failure.
I don't know what failure rate is acceptable for the frame manufacturer, but when I build something, my acceptable failure rate is zero. Obviously, commercial operations cannot afford to build to that standard, as no one wants to pay for it.
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07-05-2013, 07:21 PM
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#42
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Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfordroo
Pretty brash accusation without any investigation. Bad welds, by WELDERS, not engineers, happen all the time.
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Agree, also material not to spec. Engineers get blamed even when they did a good job and the others down the line dropped the ball. The haz is not very large indicating an improper material & weld even tho the actual weld did not break. Weld could also have undercut the material as the break is at the edge of the bead.
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07-05-2013, 07:42 PM
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#43
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TeresaInCAL
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: California foothills
Posts: 416
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I would still report it to your insurance. The worst that could happen is that they deny it.
When my dishwasher failed, and flooded my kitchen/living room, my insurance paid for the damage, but also went after the dishwasher manufacturers. Found out the dishwasher was faulty, and the insurance made the dishwasher company reimburse them (insurance companies have all the lawyers). I ended up getting all the repairs done, and my co-pay back!
I see this as a similar situation.
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Teresa
2013 f150 Ecoboost 4x4
2009 Gray Wolf, 22BH
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07-05-2013, 08:20 PM
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#44
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeresaInCAL
I would still report it to your insurance. The worst that could happen is that they deny it.
When my dishwasher failed, and flooded my kitchen/living room, my insurance paid for the damage, but also went after the dishwasher manufacturers. Found out the dishwasher was faulty, and the insurance made the dishwasher company reimburse them (insurance companies have all the lawyers). I ended up getting all the repairs done, and my co-pay back!
I see this as a similar situation.
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I had not even thought about that. We have full cover on our 5th wheel. I will contact them on Monday and see if they will do anything for us. Thanks for the idea!
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07-05-2013, 08:37 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Komoka Ontario
Posts: 2,680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeresaInCAL
I would still report it to your insurance. The worst that could happen is that they deny it.
When my dishwasher failed, and flooded my kitchen/living room, my insurance paid for the damage, but also went after the dishwasher manufacturers. Found out the dishwasher was faulty, and the insurance made the dishwasher company reimburse them (insurance companies have all the lawyers). I ended up getting all the repairs done, and my co-pay back!
I see this as a similar situation.
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Nothing to lose.
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"Well that didn't go as expected"
2015 Chev 2500HD Highcountry Duramax
Cedar Creek Silverback 33IK
Donald&Casey cairn terrier
Rest in Peace Mary my darling wife.
Scottish by birth Canadian by time.
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07-05-2013, 08:43 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,258
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zacta, have you looked under your bed to see if the floor has been pushed up at all? That often happens with this kind of failure.
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07-05-2013, 08:50 PM
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#47
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakken
zacta, have you looked under your bed to see if the floor has been pushed up at all? That often happens with this kind of failure.
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We have the bunks up front and everything seems normal on the inside up there.
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07-05-2013, 09:04 PM
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#48
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Steve & Phyllis
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Simpsonville SC
Posts: 207
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Thank you for posting and providing pictures. I am going to check mine each time I hook up from now on. Just another safety check I never would of thought of.
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07-05-2013, 10:02 PM
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zactayaus
We have the bunks up front and everything seems normal on the inside up there.
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That is a good sign, as the repair might be a lot easier.
Pease keep us informed. Thanks.
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07-06-2013, 12:04 AM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 266
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It looks like something that LCI should be responsible for. Welding softens the steel around the heated joint. Six years of softness and flexing cause the paint to loose adhesion giving way to rust, further weakening the area around joint. The frame should have been assembled down to the suspension brackets and then hardened. You know, just like a motorhome or bug rig frame.
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07-07-2013, 09:51 AM
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#51
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 33
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Just wanted everyone to know that we do have main beam failure. Like I said we have the bunks up fron and they are in an "L" shape with one set of bunks laying across the front. That set of bunks actually has a jacknife sofa underneath. Last night my son had a friend stay over. I was pulling the sofa out to make it a bed (something I've done a million times over the years) and I noticed the sofa was hard to pull out and that when I got it out it was slanted quite a bit. I looked underneath it and saw the whole platform that the sofa sits on was extremely bowed.
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07-07-2013, 10:28 AM
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#52
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Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wneise
...Welding softens the steel around the heated joint. Six years of softness and flexing cause the paint to loose adhesion giving way to rust, further weakening the area around joint. The frame should have been assembled down to the suspension brackets and then hardened...
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New one on me.
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07-07-2013, 10:40 AM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West St. Paul, Manitoba
Posts: 886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot
New one on me.
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x2 for me
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Of all the things I've lost in my life the thing I miss the most is my mind!
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07-07-2013, 10:49 AM
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#54
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,518
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I've seen tags or warnings on the frames of tractor trailers and semi tractors that said not to weld on the frame.
I've never heard of that on an RV frame.
This frame has failed. The trailer can be saved. It needs work by a pro.
I disagree that the pro needs specific RV experience/training but that's OK too.
Any good welder who knows his stuff should be able to straighten what's
bent, add some more steel to beef it up and weld it back together.
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Dan & Rita D
2017 Nissan Titan 5.6L King cab 4wd
2016 Evergreen Everlite 242RBS
29' empty nest model. Blue Ox WD hitch
(1 queen bed, large main cabin and huge bathroom)
Camping days 2010-53, 2011-47, 2012-41, 2013-41, 2014-31, 2015-40, 2016-44, 2017-63, 2018-75, 2019-32, 2020-41, 2021-49, 2022-43, 2023-66
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07-07-2013, 11:18 AM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zactayaus
Just wanted everyone to know that we do have main beam failure. Like I said we have the bunks up fron and they are in an "L" shape with one set of bunks laying across the front. That set of bunks actually has a jacknife sofa underneath. Last night my son had a friend stay over. I was pulling the sofa out to make it a bed (something I've done a million times over the years) and I noticed the sofa was hard to pull out and that when I got it out it was slanted quite a bit. I looked underneath it and saw the whole platform that the sofa sits on was extremely bowed.
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Sorry to hear that, as I take no pleasure in being right about what failed.
If I may offer a suggestion, do not allow the repair guy to just straighten that front beam and patch it up. This is the opportunity to cut that weak beam out and replace it with a much stronger structure.
As an example, if it is a single 3-inch by 6-inch rectangular steel tube, you could put in two 2-inch by 6-inch rectangular tubes side-by-side, welded together as a unit before putting it up into place. A good welder will probably have lots of good ideas about where to put extra braces and gussets as well.
It sucks, but after this, your frame will be much improved, and you won't ever have to worry about it failing again, while the rest of us will have to continue to watch our frames after every trip!
Hope it all works out for you.
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07-07-2013, 11:51 AM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 266
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Or you could replace it with the same dimension piece if its made from a thicker steel.
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07-07-2013, 07:08 PM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wneise
Or you could replace it with the same dimension piece if its made from a thicker steel.
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Of course, but my thought was to double the number of webs, plus maybe increase the overall size of the beam a bit. When I design structures, I tend to over-engineer the most critical elements. This beam is the most critical element in any fifth wheel frame, as it takes all of the pin weight of the camper.
I am very tempted to strip off the aluminum cover under my fifth wheel area, and reinforce this structure long before any fatigue has set in. It would be a lot easier job doing it now.
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07-07-2013, 07:27 PM
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#58
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Mod free 5er
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakken
...I am very tempted to strip off the aluminum cover under my fifth wheel area, and reinforce this structure long before any fatigue has set in. It would be a lot easier job doing it now.
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Make sure you post pictures of your undertaking.
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07-07-2013, 07:42 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCoot
Make sure you post pictures of your undertaking.
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I didn't say I was definitely going to do it, but if I do, I will post a detailed description of the engineering behind the modifications, and pictures to illustrate. I know that I can double the strength of the structure with little additional weight. Too bad the factory didn't do it to begin with.
Considering all the creaking and groaning the camper does when I lower the weight onto the hitch, there is obviously far too much flexing going on.
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07-07-2013, 11:54 PM
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#60
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Owner/Operator
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chino Valley, AZ
Posts: 671
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I am considering a Trail Air Tri-Glide Pin Box for my 8289WS. Do any of you structural engineer types think that this might help in mitigating this type of stress failure?
I have a very heavy RAM 3500 Cab & Chassis that can jerk that pin box around.
RodeoGeorge
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2013 Rockwood 8289WS
Mods: Central Vac, PI EMS-HW50C, 2025RV, (2) SCS225 Trojans, PD9260, Awning Remotes & LED Lights, Eliminators, External Water Filter,, Intellijacks
2008 RAM 3500 Cab&Chassis Hauler Bed, B&W Companion Hitch
All My Modifications are at this link:
https://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ons-36212.html
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