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Old 12-09-2014, 07:18 AM   #21
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You are so right about R-9 in walls not the issue. We have a Forest River Wildcat, 2005 and right now sitting in Lake City, Florida where it is getting into the 30's at night. Walls not the problem, but more with the windows and the door. Those areas we can feel the cold coming in. Our windows are not the double pane. So much condensation. The furnace runs constantly. Would hate to be in any other state right now. I made foam rubber cut-outs with insulated material on them (pillows) to stick up in the fan vents inside. Seems to keep the air from coming in where the vents are. Just wish we could have gotten a better camper, but did not want to spend a lot of money.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:48 AM   #22
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I have no scientific evidence, but I will share what I recently observed pertaining to insulation. Our current camper is a Puma 31RDKS with the anniversary package. It has the same basic windows, aluminum siding and wall and floor insulation (R-7 IIRC) as our previous Puma had and my in laws currently has. The only difference in our current and those other 2 is that the anniversary package includes a radiant barrier insulation in the roof. That added to the roof made a HUGE difference that was VERY noticeable on our recent Thanksgiving trip. Lows were in the 33-38 range every night. We were able to stay warm- actually got too hot at times- by running the fireplace on low and one additional oil filled radiator heater on low. The first night we had a third ceramic heater cycling on low and were too hot. Didn't run it the remaining nights. No propane heat was used. Neither our old camper nor my in laws was as comfortable as ours. And our new one is larger and has 2 massive slides versus one on both of those. Also, there was almost no condensation on our windows and none on our walls. In laws and our old camper would have massive amounts of condensation on the windows and often some on the walls. In laws were camped 50' from us over Thanksgiving and experienced MUCH more condensation than us, meaning this discrepancy can't be blamed on being in different climates/environment.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:57 AM   #23
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I have a Sabre with the R-9 and R-38 (?) roof and floor, with dual pane as we use trailer in winter when skiing.
Big things for me Chris is that do not focus on trying to increase R value in walls unless you also make mandatory dual pane windows. Absolutley useless to do so then have a r-2or 3 in all windows. At least go dual pane with R-5 ish values. As a former custom home builder I would laugh (to myself while explaining) at clients who want to have huge R values in walls and roof but them make the whole back of the house glass!!! Really?

Make sure that the slide side walls are also R-9, make sure that seals on slides are beefed up to make a proper seal and hold in heat or cool. Make sure window openings have proper insulation between frame and window. etc etc.
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:17 AM   #24
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Since we live in the South, I didn't consider R-values in the purchase of either camper (see signature). We have camped down to freezing or a little below and have done pretty well with a small electric heater and occasional propane furnace use. Since condensation is always an issue, I considered dual pane windows when ordering the new 5th wheel, but the additional cost and some online stories of fogging and expensive repairs put me off. We keep condensation manageable by cracking windows and ceiling vents. Clearly, we are not equipped for really cold weather, but we really don't need to be.
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:04 AM   #25
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I travel nationwide for my job, and have been in some pretty harshly cold and brutally hot areas for months at a time. INSULATION is probably number 2 on my order of importance, just behind manufacturer quality overall.
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:05 PM   #26
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My DW found our 5r on the internet. By floor play of course. I do believe floor plan is the #1 deciding factor. After living in my RV for 5 years, full time, I have issues and will list them in my order of preference.


#1 Our 15k btu ac runs way to much for a 30ft rv. Yes I have and use vent covers and pillows (way to many vents in this RV). The 30amp does not provide for 2 ACs however I would pay extra for the electrical option to add another AC later, or have 2 AC from the factory.

#2 Windows, I do not have upgraded windows but do believe "all RV's should be equiped as standard. I too have to "paper towel" the windows daily when camping near or below the 30 degree mark. We now run a dehumidifier.

#3 Floors, I have hard foam board sandwiched between luan wrapped in foil with a layer of linoelum. this turned spongy three years after purchase. I floated a hardwood floor over all. FR says they fixed this by increasing the thickness of the luan used. This might add 1-2yrs. I list this because 1/2 ton truck is the most common truck sold on the US. GVRW is the #1 issue men look at on deciding on an RV.

We run a ceramic heater to suppliment heat when needed but use way to much LP gas when it gets cold. A typical 30lb bottle last 5 days ($100mo). Our RV was sold as a "Four Season" RV. In northern Illinois four seasons can be -30 to 102 degreese. Although extreem, the issues should be to increase the "standards/options" for the next generation of TT/5th Wheel RVs. The "R-Value is not the #1 item to focus on.

We as owners can suppliment for living in our RV. You as developers/Manufactors need to improve the standards to insure coustomer repeat. I love my FR 8528BHSS and will buy another FR RV from the same dealer (Cheyenne Camping Center).
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:21 PM   #27
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As much as R values and dual pane windows are concerns something else needs to be looked into also. That's how all the exterior wall/floor penetrations are sealed. Open all cabinets and look at what's coming in from the outside. Cable, elec boxes, vents, cargo doors, etc. All those need to be sealed properly or heat will escape. Open some cabinet doors and look around. I've seen elec wiring that runs thru 3" holes that let cold air in from front storage compartments. Elec outlet boxes on the outside of the trailer that aren't sealed inside. Shore power cords that roll into a storage area inside the trailer. Those are not air tight. Even slides that when extended you could see day light when lifting the 6" carpet extension and looking under it. Lots of areas that leak air.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:03 PM   #28
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As much as R values and dual pane windows are concerns something else needs to be looked into also. That's how all the exterior wall/floor penetrations are sealed. Open all cabinets and look at what's coming in from the outside. Cable, elec boxes, vents, cargo doors, etc. All those need to be sealed properly or heat will escape. Open some cabinet doors and look around. I've seen elec wiring that runs thru 3" holes that let cold air in from front storage compartments. Elec outlet boxes on the outside of the trailer that aren't sealed inside. Shore power cords that roll into a storage area inside the trailer. Those are not air tight. Even slides that when extended you could see day light when lifting the 6" carpet extension and looking under it. Lots of areas that leak air.
You are absolutely correct on the sealing issues, lots of cold air infiltrates through these openings! An additional benefit of the sealing is no insect/rodent infestation. Insulation, windows and sealing are critical!
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:10 PM   #29
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I see, as others point out that my main noticeable infiltration is in the slides and under slide storage. Open the storage hatches in the day time and look. Sit on the couch and "feel the breeze". The dinette is a little better. I plan to try to seal "some" of that.


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Old 12-09-2014, 04:32 PM   #30
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We found out too late that when you order a new RV, ask for the Canadian insulation package. Great in cold weather and keeps the heat out in the Florida summers.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:47 PM   #31
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Our RV was sold as a "Four Season" RV.
That had to be from the dealer, because FR doesn't advertise any of their RV's as "Four Season", except their Ice Fishing trailers.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:14 PM   #32
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bikendan, You are correct in that my dealer sold me it as a 4-season rv. The initial thread from the Jaycio Rep. also stated a 4-season TT. So if FR doesn't sell one why are dealer/reps talking about it?
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:19 PM   #33
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According to greenbuildingadvisor.com, single glazing has an R-value of about 1, clear double glazing is about R-2, and clear triple about R-3. Numbers weren't listed for windows with inert gas and/or low-e. Do double-glazed windows in RVs use either of those? If not, the increase from R-1 to R-2 might not be worth the increased cost except from the condensation standpoint.
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:21 PM   #34
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I thought I'd reply since a manufacturer rep is in the thread.
Spray in insulation should be a standard. Board or batt insulation are energy sieves.

Air exchange in each unit for efficiency and humidity control. They only retail for $200 and reduce the need for A/C and venting out warm air in the cold. Put it on a separate circuit so unit's sitting for awhile can plug just that in to help prevent condensation in unattended units run on a timer.

Velcro around the outside of windows and radiant barrier fitted covers for storage or really sunny weather. For example there may be a not so great view from some windows that could be left covered even while in use at a site.

And like the earlier posters stated, radiant barrier is useless without an air gap. A 2in wall with 1 1/2 spray in and radiant barrier would be quite effective.

We lined just the walls of our 5000 sqft shop with barrier and even without doing the roof on -40 days it went from 3 heaters running nearly constantly to 1 running intermittently.
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by bfhammer View Post
I thought I'd reply since a manufacturer rep is in the thread.
Spray in insulation should be a standard. Board or batt insulation are energy sieves.

Air exchange in each unit for efficiency and humidity control. They only retail for $200 and reduce the need for A/C and venting out warm air in the cold. Put it on a separate circuit so unit's sitting for awhile can plug just that in to help prevent condensation in unattended units run on a timer.

Velcro around the outside of windows and radiant barrier fitted covers for storage or really sunny weather. For example there may be a not so great view from some windows that could be left covered even while in use at a site.

And like the earlier posters stated, radiant barrier is useless without an air gap. A 2in wall with 1 1/2 spray in and radiant barrier would be quite effective.

We lined just the walls of our 5000 sqft shop with barrier and even without doing the roof on -40 days it went from 3 heaters running nearly constantly to 1 running intermittently.
For what it's worth, being a 2 year old thread......best of my knowledge, wildcat Chris is no longer with forest river.

Most "fiberglass" sided campers have foam sandwiched in the middle....basically the same as spray foam.

I agree spray foam is awsome, my house is spray foamed and has almost half the energy cost of a normal house its size or smaller. The kicker is, it cost me almost twice as much to insulate with it foam as normal insulation. I've recovered my cost back in the first 2 years, but this probably wouldnt be as feasible on an rv and would make service a real nightmare when you have plumbing or other issues underneath.
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4 season, all season, arctic, astrofoil, block foam, construction, dense foam, dual pane, enclosed underbelly, four season, insulation, polar, polar package, r-value, radiant, radiant barrier, radiant heat, radiant shield, thermopane, furnace

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