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Old 05-27-2012, 09:36 PM   #11
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No
If you were talking about the GVWR of the tv and took the hitch weight off then yes. But the GCWR of the combo minus the GVWR of the trailer gives you the maximum weight of the TV. The weight of the hitch is part of the GVWR of the trailer.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Happy Vibe View Post
No
If you were talking about the GVWR of the tv and took the hitch weight off then yes. But the GCWR of the combo minus the GVWR of the trailer gives you the maximum weight of the TV. The weight of the hitch is part of the GVWR of the trailer.
The receiver and hitch head weight is forward of the ball and reduces available tow vehicle payload. The bars and equipment of the hitch (frame clamps) mounted on the camper become part of the camper payload.

When talking GWVR the units are treated as two different vehicles (the maximum the tow vehicle can weigh and the maximum that the camper can weigh). These numbers are unique to the individual vehicles and are based on limits of the structure of the vehicle. (Frame loads, axles loads, suspension and wheel loads).

When talking combined weight limits, the limit is based on what the tow vehicle's drive train can PULL (not carry).

When I did my calculations, I took the combined maximum weight of the connected "rig" and subtracted the weight of the loaded camper (5400 pounds).

That left 5600 pounds of "pulling capacity" for the tow vehicle to weigh.

Since with a full tank of gas and a 150 pound driver, the truck weighs 4650 pounds "at the curb."

The GVWR of the Envoy is 6200 pounds. If we were putting sand into the envoy we could shovel 1550 pounds of sand in there as long as we did not try to tow anything.

Since the maximum the truck can weigh is 5600 pounds and pull a 5400 pound camper, the difference between the 5600 pounds and the 4650 pounds of curb weight is 950 pounds of available payload to remain under the Gross Combined weight.

When you finally connect the camper to the hitch, the camper STILL weighs 5400 pounds, just part of it has to be carried by the truck.

That tongue load has to come off of the available remaining payload of the Envoy.

That 650 pound tongue load has to be carried by the tow vehicle in addition to the hitch (and any other gear including family members) and still keep the total weight under 11,000 pounds and the GVWR of the Envoy.

So what I think you are saying is....

Since the 650 pounds is being transferred to the truck, it should not be counted as apart of the camper's load for determining Combined Weight.

If I subtract the tongue weight of the camper from the camper's weight.
5400 - 650 = 4750 then subtract THAT number from the 11,000 would allow the TV to weigh 6250 (50 pounds over its max).

So lets say we want to keep the GVWR at the 6200 pound max.

Subtract the curb weight 4650 - 1550 pounds payload
Subtract hitch 100 - 1450 pounds remaining
Subtract Tongue weight 650 pounds - 800 pounds payload remaining.

That does make quite a bit of difference and it does sound logical.
I need to think on this some more. Something is nagging at me and I can't get my head around it right now.
It is late and I am confusing myself.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:56 AM   #13
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Herk's correct, the weight of the WDH counts toward the tow vehicle's payload, not the trailer's GVWR. it's counts the same as the tongue weight does, toward payload.

to the OP, i would NEVER tow a trailer that long and near my max tow capacity, with a I-6 Envoy XL.
you would need a more expensive WDH, like the Hensley or ProPride, to even make it marginal.

but i live out West and take long trips, not just a 50 miles away.
i guess if i lived where there were no mountains or hills, it might be doable. but i wouldn't tow with my family in the vehicle.
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:18 AM   #14
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Ok, thanks again everyone. Even though we plan on taking a second vehicle with family and camping items in it, and only make shorter camping trips, I think we're still going to get something smaller after reading through these comments. Thanks again! It was exactly the feedback I needed!
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Vibe View Post
No
If you were talking about the GVWR of the tv and took the hitch weight off then yes. But the GCWR of the combo minus the GVWR of the trailer gives you the maximum weight of the TV. The weight of the hitch is part of the GVWR of the trailer.
Kevin,

I gave this A LOT of thought on the drive out to Ohio and back.

After MUCH thought I believe you are correct about taking the tongue into consideration twice when talking about Combined Weight.

When calculating combined weight it does not matter WHERE the tongue weight is located; just that it is figured into the weight "somewhere".

As far as maximum weight of the CAMPER, tongue weight MUST be included to make sure the trailer's frame is not over loaded.

As far as the TRUCK's maximum weight, the tongue weight must be included to make sure the TRUCK's frame load is not exceeded when hitched.

In most cases (appropriately sized TV vs camper weight) GVWR of the truck limits out well before the GCWR. It is certainly possible in some situations for the GCWR to max out before either the TV or camper does.

In the OP's case you are correct, I counted the tongue twice when figuring how much stuff could be in the TV when using the combined weight as the limiting factor.

The TV would have maxed out before the combined weight but additional cargo (a few hundred pounds) could be carried.

All of this depends on the "real" weights of the truck and camper involved.
A trip to the scales with a loaded for camping Envoy would go a long way to decide it this configuration makes sense to the OP.

On the second point,

The weight is the receiver and hitch head is counted as truck payload since it is all located forward of the "ball".
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:55 PM   #16
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Thanks for the reply.
As you pointed out you need to calculate GCWR and GVWR separately.
But both are just as important.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:27 PM   #17
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I tow a 2012 X-lite 26BH with my 2005 Ford Explorer, V-6, 4x4, and a tow package. The trailer with a moderate cargo load (4800 lbs) is about 500 lbs under my vehicles max tow weight (5300 lbs) and I do fine for short trips. I have a WDH, anti sway device, and break controller. I live on the Oregon coast so we have countless camping less then 100 miles away. the one issue I did run into is that although I am good on the max towing weight, My Max GVRW is 10,000 and my loaded Explorer (Family, dog and gas) weighes in at 5500 lbs. This will usually put me over the mark by about 300 lbs. Until I can get a better tow vehicle (looking at F-150 supercrew), I will keep my trips under 100 miles just because I don't want to overtax my rig. The stablity is fine.
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