New Electrical Gremlin with the WH

[Darwalk]

Hello All- I have owned a Wildwood T202RDXL for a little over a year. I have since replaced the Water Heater switchboard 2x, opting for a larger universal unit on the 3rd round. The original, and the replacement switchboard melted in the same location both times. My issue now is that whenever the WH starts to light, the ticking noise comes from the main panel area at the same time, and is very loud. 1/2 the time it doesn't even light, and in most cases, the WH turns off overnight. I knew that these Wildwood trailers were cheap, but I really didn't expect to pay for so much for replacement parts after a year.

Any suggestions?

[5picker]

Make and model of the water heater?

[Darwalk]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Make and model of the water heater?

Not sure the model, but it is a Suburban. Operation manual is for the SW4DE and SW6DE, so I am guessing it is the lower model.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Darwalk

Not sure the model, but it is a Suburban. Operation manual is for the SW4DE and SW6DE, so I am guessing it is the lower model.

That is the make and model.


All the 4 or 6 dictates is the tank size in gallons. The water heater is pretty much the same whether it's a 4, 6, 10 or larger tank size.

The operation of all these models are explained in this link:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ore-36197.html

[Darwalk]

Originally Posted by wmtire

That is the make and model.


All the 4 or 6 dictates is the tank size in gallons. The water heater is pretty much the same whether it's a 4, 6, 10 or larger tank size.

The operation of all these models are explained in this link:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ore-36197.html

I read through this and I appreciate it! We have the 6 gallon, so I got that covered now. I have gone through these processes on the lighting of the WH a few times, and should have that taken care of. My concern is that the loud clicking coming from the main power panel now. It is almost like a relay switch is either going out, or trying way too hard to get power over to the WH. I haven't heard that until the last couple times out. Just doesn't sound right, you know? I did look at the panel that houses all of the relays, and physically I cannot see that there are any that are burned out. My other concern is that once I do get it lit, it does stay on during the day, and each morning we wake up to the DSI fault. Like I mentioned, I did change the switchboard at the WH out 2x already, and also replaced the anode. I will have to do some more investigating!

[5picker]

So when you are describing the clicking relay at the main power panel, are you referring to the control panel where your water heater switch is located or something on the water heater itself? Your terminology of "changed the switchboard at the WH" has me confused.

[Darwalk]

Originally Posted by 5picker

So when you are describing the clicking relay at the main power panel, are you referring to the control panel where your water heater switch is located or something on the water heater itself? Your terminology of "changed the switchboard at the WH" has me confused.

Gotcha, yeah it was a little confusing after I read what I wrote. I have changed the igniter board AT the water heater 2x (the small board that is taped to the outside of the water heater underneath our dining bench). The newer one seems to be good, and it is fused, so hopefully it won't melt like the original, and the first replacement did. The relay switch clicking noise is coming from the electrical panel that is located underneath the fuse/ breaker panel behind a false wood panel. It is where all of the electrical is distributed out. I have to remove 4 panel screws and take the wood cover off in order to get to it.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Darwalk

Gotcha, yeah it was a little confusing after I read what I wrote. I have changed the igniter board AT the water heater 2x (the small board that is taped to the outside of the water heater underneath our dining bench). The newer one seems to be good, and it is fused, so hopefully it won't melt like the original, and the first replacement did. The relay switch clicking noise is coming from the electrical panel that is located underneath the fuse/ breaker panel behind a false wood panel. It is where all of the electrical is distributed out. I have to remove 4 panel screws and take the wood cover off in order to get to it.

Turn off the Main Circuit Breaker. 30A. Try a light to ensure it is off. Remove the circuit breaker labeled Water heater. 20A ?. Look to see if you have any arcing on the breaker contacts or on the buss bar it connects to. Sounds like this might be what you are hearing.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Darwalk

Gotcha, yeah it was a little confusing after I read what I wrote. I have changed the igniter board AT the water heater 2x (the small board that is taped to the outside of the water heater underneath our dining bench). The newer one seems to be good, and it is fused, so hopefully it won't melt like the original, and the first replacement did. The relay switch clicking noise is coming from the electrical panel that is located underneath the fuse/ breaker panel behind a false wood panel. It is where all of the electrical is distributed out. I have to remove 4 panel screws and take the wood cover off in order to get to it.

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

I'll assume your control panel is a touch screen. (newer units have these instead of rows of mechanical switches) The touch screen buttons simply operate a relay (usually in a bank mounted separate from the control board) for the desired button you are pushing. Depending on how/what these relays are mounted, they can simply make a loud noise because the mounting point acts as a speaker, amplifying the mechanical clicking of the relay. It may not (or may) mean there is anything going wrong with the relay.

Also, should you need to replace again, many here (including myself over the years) have had very good luck replacing the igniter board with one made by Dinosaur Electronics.
Here's a link...

Dinosaur Electronics

[5picker]

Originally Posted by cavie

Turn off the Main Circuit Breaker. 30A. Try a light to ensure it is off. Remove the circuit breaker labeled Water heater. 20A ?. Look to see if you have any arcing on the breaker contacts or on the buss bar it connects to. Sounds like this might be what you are hearing.

Just for the sake of correctness, in case someone jumps in and starts reading...
Checking if the AC power is off after flipping the 30 main breaker by "turning on a light" is not the correct way to tell if the AC power is off.

The lights are 12v and will still illuminate (provided your battery(ies) are good even when the main AC breaker is thrown.

I'd hate to see someone get hurt digging around in a live panel box.

[Darwalk]

Originally Posted by cavie

Turn off the Main Circuit Breaker. 30A. Try a light to ensure it is off. Remove the circuit breaker labeled Water heater. 20A ?. Look to see if you have any arcing on the breaker contacts or on the buss bar it connects to. Sounds like this might be what you are hearing.

I will do that when I pick the trailer up next week. That should be easy enough to replace if it turns out to be the issue. I really didn't feel like diving in to that hidden distribution panel.....the builders were nice enough to not label anything on that panel, so it will be a wire tracing seminar for an hour I am betting.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by cavie

Turn off the Main Circuit Breaker. 30A. Try a light to ensure it is off. Remove the circuit breaker labeled Water heater. 20A ?. Look to see if you have any arcing on the breaker contacts or on the buss bar it connects to. Sounds like this might be what you are hearing.

Cavie, I understand you are an electrician, but there is a difference between 12 volt DC items in a RV and 120 volt AC items. The lights and propane side of the water heater operate off 12 volt DC...so turning off the AC circuit breakers will have no effect on them or troubleshooting as long as a 12 volt battery is installed in the RV.

RV's are designed so that you can use many things off of 12 volt DC and thus camp without a generator or 120 volt AC. You can use the propane side of the water heater without any 120 volt AC.

The water heater circuit breaker ONLY goes to the water heaters 120 volt AC electric heating element and only if equipped with an electric element (not all are). Like I stated, it has no bearing whatsoever on the 12 volt DC propane/ignition/operation.

Please read these links below, which will help you understand/learn RV electrical systems, as well as what fixtures/appliances operate off of what system....as well as what the function of the converter is.

Basic RV Electricity - RV Information (RV Maintenance)

RV Converters and Amp Draw - RV Information (RV Maintenance)

[Darwalk]

Originally Posted by 5picker

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

I'll assume your control panel is a touch screen. (newer units have these instead of rows of mechanical switches) The touch screen buttons simply operate a relay (usually in a bank mounted separate from the control board) for the desired button you are pushing. Depending on how/what these relays are mounted, they can simply make a loud noise because the mounting point acts as a speaker, amplifying the mechanical clicking of the relay. It may not (or may) mean there is anything going wrong with the relay.

Also, should you need to replace again, many here (including myself over the years) have had very good luck replacing the igniter board with one made by Dinosaur Electronics.
Here's a link...

Dinosaur Electronics

I got the cheap trailer, it still has the mechanical switches I did end up getting the Dinosaur igniter board the 3rd time around. Seemed much better made. I will start with the breaker first and move on from there. I installed a battery cut off switch, so I will make certain everything is powered down before working on it. 12V doesn't feel too good when you get hit

[cavie]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Just for the sake of correctness, in case someone jumps in and starts reading...
Checking if the AC power is off after flipping the 30 main breaker by "turning on a light" is not the correct way to tell if the AC power is off.

The lights are 12v and will still illuminate (provided your battery(ies) are good even when the main AC breaker is thrown.

I'd hate to see someone get hurt digging around in a live panel box.

That's the 45-year electrician in me. I was assuming a known 110 volt light as I have some in my trailer. 110-volt Ceiling fan comes to mind. Another plugged in wall light, as well as some plug-in, LED light strips.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by cavie

That's the 45-year electrician in me. I was assuming a known 110 volt light as I have some in my trailer. 110-volt Ceiling fan comes to mind. Another plugged in wall light, as well as some plug-in, LED light strips.

Understood and please realize, I'm not picking on you.
We simply can't 'assume' anything when giving advice to those without experience.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by Darwalk

I got the cheap trailer, it still has the mechanical switches I did end up getting the Dinosaur igniter board the 3rd time around. Seemed much better made. I will start with the breaker first and move on from there. I installed a battery cut off switch, so I will make certain everything is powered down before working on it. 12V doesn't feel too good when you get hit

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have never gotten shocked by 12vdc. If your talking about the jolt you get by touching a faulty spark plug wire, you have to remember that it is not 12 volts coming from the transformer that supplies the spark plug. Spark plugs require voltage of 12,000–25,000 volts or more to "fire" properly, although it can go up to 45,000 volts.

[Darwalk]

Originally Posted by Scrapper

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have never gotten shocked by 12vdc. If your talking about the jolt you get by touching a faulty spark plug wire, you have to remember that it is not 12 volts coming from the transformer that supplies the spark plug. Spark plugs require voltage of 12,000–25,000 volts or more to "fire" properly, although it can go up to 45,000 volts.

I used to do large car audio installs back in my youth. Being young and stupid around car batteries was my forte

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by cavie

That's the 45-year electrician in me. I was assuming a known 110 volt light as I have some in my trailer. 110-volt Ceiling fan comes to mind. Another plugged in wall light, as well as some plug-in, LED light strips.

Our previous camper had 120 Volt as well as 12 volt overhead lights so I knew precisely what you meant.

To the OP:

I wholeheartedly agree with the Dinosaur boards for EVERYTHING that needs a board. I have had such good luck with their products and their customer service is outstanding. If you do not understand something they will walk you through it over the phone. Like I said, OUTSTANDING, so don'gt be afraid to give them a call if needs be.

Since this is a new camper here is what could be a problem for you. When you filled up the propane bottle the very first time, did they "purge" the bottle. If not, there is air trapped in the bottle and it can cause hard lighting and mislights as well, like you describe the WH going out at night.

The solution, if this is the case, is to have a propane station drain and then purge your tank, or it will never work correctly if you do not.

[Darwalk]

Originally Posted by DouglasReid

Our previous camper had 120 Volt as well as 12 volt overhead lights so I knew precisely what you meant.

To the OP:

I wholeheartedly agree with the Dinosaur boards for EVERYTHING that needs a board. I have had such good luck with their products and their customer service is outstanding. If you do not understand something they will walk you through it over the phone. Like I said, OUTSTANDING, so don'gt be afraid to give them a call if needs be.

Since this is a new camper here is what could be a problem for you. When you filled up the propane bottle the very first time, did they "purge" the bottle. If not, there is air trapped in the bottle and it can cause hard lighting and mislights as well, like you describe the WH going out at night.

The solution, if this is the case, is to have a propane station drain and then purge your tank, or it will never work correctly if you do not.

Thanks for the bottle purge suggestion. I will ask our storage place to do that prior to me picking the trailer up this week!

[cavie]

Originally Posted by DouglasReid

Our previous camper had 120 Volt as well as 12 volt overhead lights so I knew precisely what you meant.

To the OP:

I wholeheartedly agree with the Dinosaur boards for EVERYTHING that needs a board. I have had such good luck with their products and their customer service is outstanding. If you do not understand something they will walk you through it over the phone. Like I said, OUTSTANDING, so don'gt be afraid to give them a call if needs be.

Since this is a new camper here is what could be a problem for you. When you filled up the propane bottle the very first time, did they "purge" the bottle. If not, there is air trapped in the bottle and it can cause hard lighting and mislights as well, like you describe the WH going out at night.

The solution, if this is the case, is to have a propane station drain and then purge your tank, or it will never work correctly if you do not.

I purchased a new tank from E-bay and it came with the purge warning on it so I took it to a welding shop/propane station that certifies tanks for a refill. I asked about the purge process as he was removing the label and was told that was not necessary for the type of equipment and process he was using. He did use the small release valve on the side to release excess air before disconnecting the tank. Something they don't do at hardware and wholesale stores like BJ's.