831QBSS Delam Photos

macbwt · 08-15-2010, 06:03 PM

I just submitted the Photo/PDF of photos to the Dealer and Forest River Warranty Rep was CC'd in the E-mail. The Delam was on both walls/sides all over the TT starting to look like it contracted a case of the Chicken Pox. I hope they will repair it as it is 5 months out of the one year warranty.
Photos below are just a few locations.

grhodes50 · 08-15-2010, 09:57 PM

Keep trying and don't give up. Be persistent and firm, but nice. FR is pretty good about taking care of these problems. Some have been done outside the warranty period.

I was 2 weeks outside of my warranty and they took care of it , no problem. They replaced both sidewalls. It took 6½ weeks.

Good Luck.

Iggy · 08-15-2010, 10:14 PM

What year is the trailer?

macbwt · 08-16-2010, 02:48 AM

The trailer is a 2008 purchased 29 march 2009. I do assume de-lamination is a time elapse issue and does not occur overnight. In other words this actually started months ago and these bulges did not appear from now where so to speak.

crocus · 08-16-2010, 03:21 PM

Did you find any indication that it may have been caused by a water leak, or do you feel it is just a poor job of gluing the finish to the substrate, or the substrate to the styrofoam? It is concerning just how thin everything is on these units.

macbwt · 08-16-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocus

Did you find any indication that it may have been caused by a water leak, or do you feel it is just a poor job of gluing the finish to the substrate, or the substrate to the styrofoam? It is concerning just how thin everything is on these units.

The TT was constructed and finished Feb 2008. If this is true it is a strong possibility the vacuum/bonding process was performed in about January, maybe December. If this is the case I would bet money the building was cold and the bonding did not reach full heat temp during the vacuum process. The resins need equal and even reaction/heating to bond. Cold buildings can hinder the process and cause issues such as this. The one part (front) could just be a not so perfect sealing job by the manufacturer as my roof seals appear in great shape. Then again water is our life and ruin depending on what the circumstances are. All I can say is if this fails to be fixed there is no way I will pay to have it fixed as I can imagine the cost of replacing two walls (the whole TT) I would then sell it for what I could get and more than likely never purchase another Forrest River product as they will have lost my confidence. Please don't take this as a negative for my TT. We do like it and have enjoyed it. Word of advice check the manufacturer date of the TT. If it was made in July you might have a well bonded unit. I could be wrong on this though. Just my opinion.

crocus · 08-16-2010, 07:48 PM

Ours is coming off the line in two days, so if cold during construction is causing delamination, we will be ok. I am sorry for your problems, and can only imagine how you feel.

macbwt · 08-16-2010, 08:16 PM

The best part is that I have many memories while camping in this trailer with my daughters. First bike ride with no training wheels, fishing, swimming and my youngest took her first steps in it. We love camping and this is for me to be concerned about while keeping the family out and having fun. Enjoy your family. I can imagine folks more times than not have not had one issue. I just pulled the wrong card. God willing we will always have camping, the best family time you can get, if you make time for it. My 7 yr old DD calls it home when we are out at the camp site. Gotta love her enthusiasm.

rockwood06 · 08-17-2010, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbeth

The trailer is a 2008 purchased 29 march 2009. I do assume delamination is a time elapse issue and does not occur overnight. In other words this actually started months ago and these bulges did not appear from now where so to speak.

When i bought my camper in 2006 it was in my drive way only 8 days when delamination occurs. In some cases this poor quality control can pop up at any time. Once the bond is broken or if there was a small air pocket during production between the two materials or bad adhesive (glue). Delamination can indeed show up over night, once it starts it keeps growing.

crocus · 08-17-2010, 08:54 AM

My only hope is that the manufacturers got tired of fixing this problem and have changed the way they construct the walls. Am I being naive?

macbwt · 08-17-2010, 09:14 AM

Ron from the Service Department at Cheyenne Camping Center called and has received my photos. He indicated that Forest River has been pretty good about the De-lamination issues and repairs. Made me feel better and optimistic concerning the possible outcome.

grhodes50 · 08-17-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocus

My only hope is that the manufacturers got tired of fixing this problem and have changed the way they construct the walls. Am I being naive?

I was told the delamination was due to a bad batch of glue they used during a specific time period. My tt is a 2009 model produced in 2008. There are people on here with newer tt's having the same problem, so I'm not sure what to believe.

rockwood06 · 08-18-2010, 04:47 AM

Your are right, glue is one of the problems along with temperature of the press (too hot or not hot enough) dirt and moisture will case delamination. This is a process that needs to be monitored closely for quality.

macbwt · 08-18-2010, 07:44 AM

I have been to various sites and hear of De-lamination issues, but I would be curious and think an unscientific poll would be interesting to see just how many RV's suffer from this one issue (major expense) repair.

crocus · 08-18-2010, 02:16 PM

Just talked to a friend last night who was looking at a 2005 KZ that appeared to also have delamination. Does every manufacurer have it?

macbwt · 08-22-2010, 07:27 AM

I would assume all manufacturers are susceptible to this issue, but QA is very important in the process. Temp and resin mixture need to be closely controlled for the best outcome. The industry refers to the "glue" as resins so they are one and the same. No idea if RVIA the industry defacto standards group would have data on this.

grhodes50 · 08-22-2010, 09:13 AM

A couple of things are beginning to become clear.

First, this is not just a FR problem.

Second, manufactures do need to address this issue, seriously and quickly. While the percentage of tt's experiencing this problem is realitively low, it still seems to be happening way too often. Even if they do repair the problem at their own expense it is still somewhat costly to the owners in time and depreciation of tt value.

I know a tt is not an investment, but no one wants to see their tt value drop a couple of thousand because of delamination repair. I checked with a dealer on trade in value, just out of curiosity, less than two months ago and did not disclose the delamination repair, then I checked with the same dealer a couple of weeks ago, seriously thinking of trading the tt in this time, and did disclose the repair and the difference in trade in value was $1.5k less.

The laminating process of these tt's is the main reason why I will probably be purchasing a Prime Time LaCrosse tt in the next few weeks. Completely different sidewall, end caps, roof and floor constuction using Eternabond adhesive instead of whatever they use now. They are a FR division, but jumping to another manufacturer won't necessarily be any better.

macbwt · 08-30-2010, 01:14 PM

Well now I have to bring the TT into the Dealer. Forest River Response. Forest River is holding the owners responsible for not inspecting the TT every ninety days and any water resulting delamination will not be covered under warranty. You must prove by having I guess the Dealer inspect or you with photos and documented dates that you inspected the TT for bad seals and leaks. Thus as of right now it is looking as if Forest River is side stepping the problem and placing on the OWNERS!!!! I believe I will work this to the end, but may very well trade it in for something else not manufactured by a company so willing to not stand up to a warranty and it is still under warranty I did have a two year, but it is doing me no good. I will let you all know how this proceeds but this if from Forest River so Everyone Good Luck and hope you enjoy your camping. This is a load of you know what and I am not happy.

shineysideup · 08-30-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macbwt

The best part is that I have many memories while camping in this trailer with my daughters. First bike ride with no training wheels, fishing, swimming and my youngest took her first steps in it. We love camping and this is for me to be concerned about while keeping the family out and having fun. Enjoy your family. I can imagine folks more times than not have not had one issue. I just pulled the wrong card. God willing we will always have camping, the best family time you can get, if you make time for it. My 7 yr old DD calls it home when we are out at the camp site. Gotta love her enthusiasm.

I second that for the great memories, many of mine the same as far as first bike rides without training wheels, first time fishing, deciding that lakes are way better to swim and play in vs. pools ( at least in July and August! ). I too have started to see the delamination issue. It started below my fridge (which I caught under warranty and in enough time that there are a couple marks the size of my finger nail) and now it is on the edge of my rear slide. I have contacted the dealer, they are contacting forest river to see what can be done. The "bubble" is right out to the edge of the trim, at least an easy spot to fix (hopefully).

I did not realize that delamination is a serious issue that has affected just about every brand I have seen, now that I know what I am looking for. $10,000 to $100,000 trailers, it is just crazy.

As I posted before, bring on the composites, there is no wood to rot although time will tell if there is an adhesive problem...

Needless to say, I am disappointed with my problems, the only solution to me seems to be a composite side (which are relatively new and unproven) or an airstream that can't delaminate ( both costing considerably more than the TT I purchased ).

May the delamination devil have mercy on all the TT owners in the world...

macbwt · 08-30-2010, 02:36 PM

It is the dirty little secret the RV industry does not want folks to know about. The warranty manager at Forest River said that I am responsible for maintenance on the TT just as I would maintain my car. I then asked him if he purchased a car and the paint peeled off 17 months after he bought it would he be wanting something done and accept an answer like "you did not wash it and wax it" thus the warranty on the paint is null and void. I truly believe the RV industry is low end on their products as a whole and this RIVA organization is a scam. If they truly wanted quality all RV would have 3 years warranty or something like you get with a vehicle. Quality I am sure would then be better as they would have more to lose. My daughters bike has a 1 year warranty and it cost 60 bucks.

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