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Old 08-17-2016, 08:43 AM   #71
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I have to wonder why so many RV owners are willing to forgive the RV company for selecting "China-Bombs" for the trailers they sell. After all when tires are made the tire company does not know what type of trailer any individual tire will be applied to. It could go on a little utility trailer single axle pop-up or on a large RV where the TT company selected tires that had 0% margin on load capacity.

There are no regulations that prohibit TT company form applying LT tires in the first place. I understand Airstream is doing that today on some of their higher end products.
Rather than depend on NHTSA to take action after the fact, why not demand better tires from your RV company in the first place, or be willing to walk away from the sale?
I can assure you from years of personal experience of trying to design tires that would meet the demanding specs of the vehicle mfg that car & LT vehicle companies require component suppliers to stand behind (warranty) the parts they supply, including the tires. Tire companies have to compete fro the business based on numerous measurable performance characteristics including ISO quality standards and qualification.

IMO the only requirement the RV company asks for is low cost so a few tire importers race to the bottom to see who can deliver the lowest cost tires possible.

Since it is by law the TT MFG who has the responsibility for selecting the tires and specifying inflation and loading I feel they should be the ones you are complaining to.
When you made your purchase were you provided with clear information on the importance of tire inflation or about the Max speed rating of your tires? I bet your Rv company didn't bother to care enough for your welfare to do either.
Remember it was Ford that selected the size and specified the inflation (load capacity) of the tires on their Explorer. Just as Toyota did on their pickup. Have to wonder why identical tires supplied to Toyota had no fatalities traced to tire failures while the Explorer had and continues to have roll-over incidents, due to tire failure, that can result in fatality.
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Old 08-17-2016, 08:45 AM   #72
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Well.........comments from a Maverick......worth nothing.

First, my eyes glass over when reading most of this. I read fine details on most topics here, including the Weight Police (who caused me to buy a new truck!! LOL). But this one? I dunno, I get lost.

Second, I just want a trailer tire that is dependable. If an ST tire is made SO differently that it's what is required on a heavy trailer, then the tire manufacturers need to make one that's dependable. I don't care if it's made on Mars.

Third, answer me this, Batman..........what are the tires that are on 18 wheeler trailers? ST? LT? Something else? They're so heavy and get so many miles, they get retreads that also last a while. Whatever they are........why can't that TYPE of tire be made for RV's?

Fourth, 10,000 people in the US are retiring every single day!!! Many of those buy RV's. Sooner or later, enough of these folks are going to make a loud bloc, and yell loud enough to get some kind of action.

Fifth, I have waited on the new TPMS system and it's apparently still not out. Bad reason not to have one, I know that. And I WILL get one. But.......shoot me, but it should not be an absolute requirement to have one!! Stuff should just work.

I did not "forgive" them. I hammered our Warranty Manager BEFORE buying, for hours. I got nowhere. They won't put on LT tires, and nothing else is made that's worth a bucket of spit.

My nine cents.
Worth less.
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Old 08-17-2016, 09:18 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Sorry but there is data.
RV Safety Education Foundation for the past 20 years has accumulated data from over 35,000 units

In the seminars they give at large rallies across America they presents the facts that show " over 50% of existing RVs exceed at least one safety rating". This quote comes from the above web page. In their seminars this year we see figures such as 57% so the facts clearly support my statement of "over half"

The details from their presentations separates down Motorhomes, Trailers and tow vehicles but shows that both MH and TT have over 50% with an overload situation.
The current data shows that over 50% of RVs have one or more tire and or axle in an overload situation.
Remember this is on units where people know they will have their inflation checked. Tires are cool and these people care enough to pay for the service of getting their units weighed by tire position.

Fact: Very few RVs have axle loads evenly distributed side to side 50/50. Some large RV have discovered 1,000# unbalance.

RVSEF is a recognized 501 (c) 3 organization. Has sponsorship from Rubber Manufacturers Association, Michelin, TireMinder, Bilstein, Bridgestone, Freightliner, Dicor, Hayes brakes, Spartain, Newmar, GEICO, Dexter Axles, Jayco, Thor among others. RVSEF is the only trusted safety and weighing organization fully endorsed by RVIA and RVDA.

Exceed at least one safety rating is not the same as tires overloaded.


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Old 08-17-2016, 10:14 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by BandJCarm View Post
Well.........comments from a Maverick......worth nothing.

First, my eyes glass over when reading most of this. I read fine details on most topics here, including the Weight Police (who caused me to buy a new truck!! LOL). But this one? I dunno, I get lost.

Second, I just want a trailer tire that is dependable. If an ST tire is made SO differently that it's what is required on a heavy trailer, then the tire manufacturers need to make one that's dependable. I don't care if it's made on Mars. Heavy Trailers as seen on highway are "commercial" "TBR" truck, bus radial in industry language not ST which top out with ST235/85R16.

Third, answer me this, Batman..........what are the tires that are on 18 wheeler trailers? ST? LT? Something else? They're so heavy and get so many miles, they get retreads that also last a while. Whatever they are........why can't that TYPE of tire be made for RV's?
There are basically 4 "types" of tires for highway use. "P" passenger, "LT light truck, "ST" special trailer, and commercial (no letters). There are some 16" size commercial tires usually LR-G with steel body ply that can be used on RV trailers but there are only a few owners that will spend the $ but RV company will not spend the $

Fourth, 10,000 people in the US are retiring every single day!!! Many of those buy RV's. Sooner or later, enough of these folks are going to make a loud bloc, and yell loud enough to get some kind of action.

Fifth, I have waited on the new TPMS system and it's apparently still not out. Not sure what you mean by "new system". Tire Traker introduced their TT500 with lifetime warranty a few months ago. That is what I bought. Bad reason not to have one, I know that. And I WILL get one. But.......shoot me, but it should not be an absolute requirement to have one!! People refuse to wear seat belts and car mfg didn't install TPM untill required. Highway deaths are down because of belts and passenger tire failures are down because of TPMS. Stuff should just work.

I did not "forgive" them. I hammered our Warranty Manager BEFORE buying, for hours. I got nowhere. They won't put on LT tires, and nothing else is made that's worth a bucket of spit.

My nine cents.
Worth less.
Comments/answers in RED Your opinions are shared by many. All I can do is offer the information and suggestions to help RV community have fewer tire problems. As the saying goes you can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink.
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Old 08-17-2016, 10:30 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by lbrjet View Post
Exceed at least one safety rating is not the same as tires overloaded.


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The quote was from a summary on their web page.

(snark to follow)
If you were paying attention in the seminar you would have seen the chart with the specific numbers. I am making the simple statement that a "majority have one or more tire and/or axle in overload."
57% is a majority. Low pressure tires are most of the 57%. Other studies by DOT have similar data with 40% of vehicles having a tire with "significant" low pressure even when measured hot which means the pressure is artificially high by 5 to 10 psi so if the pressures were to be measured when the tires were cold the number with low pressure would be greater. How would you characterize it when two low pressure tires are discovered on one vehicle?

You may want to claim it is the tire company fault that the tire is overloaded or low on pressure but as an engineer who deals in facts. I do not invent the data.

Is it your position that if only 42.3675% of tires in a sample of 22,842 tires are low on pressure it isn't significant?

If you believe that RVs do not run with low pressure please present your data on a few hundred tires measured with calibrated pressure gauges and we can continue when you publish your readings. Till then I will accept RVSEF and DOT and RMA data.
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Old 08-17-2016, 11:27 AM   #76
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Well, it's been fun. This thread has run it's course and repeated a few times and now is mainly snarky on all sides. I did learn a few things, don't know if it's actually useful or not though.

I will still take my real life experience in what tires I run over experts with agendas, assumptions, and piles of contradictory data 'facts' that seem to change with whatever point is being argued at the time. I worked in IT for 35 years and know you can manipulate data, and the way it is gathered/presented, to support any claim you want to make

I'll be sitting in front of my 5ver having a beer and admiring my LT tires that got me there!


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Old 08-17-2016, 01:08 PM   #77
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Letís look at some statistics. Iím not going to name the trailer or its manufacturer. I assure you, these are true figures.

I have chosen a popular model from an also popular manufacturer. Itís a dual axle 33 foot travel trailer. GVWR is 7690# with a 690# published hitch weight. Once that is deducted from the GVWR and the remainder divided by two we find the axles to be 3500# GAWR ea.. Fitted to each end of those axles are ST205/75R14C tires with a recommended tire inflation value of 50 PSI ea.. Those tires at maximum inflation pressures provide 1760# of load capacity ea.. Not much room for error. Letís assume the tires have a speed rating of 65 MPH. That means that at 65 MPH on this trailer fully loaded they are completely maxed-out. They are going to rapidly degrade and fail, very early, when used as described.

This particular model has the ability to carry 43 gal of fresh water and 90 gal of waste water. For an owner leaving a dry camp and forgetting to dump the waste water they could then be traveling with more than 700# of water in the trailerĎs tanks. Thatís nearly half of the trailerís full cargo capacity of 1545#. In a hurry to get home and unload, kick it up to 70 MPH. POP goes a ďChinaĒ tire.

You will not find tire statistics like that on any automotive vehicle. If in doubt, do some math with the figures on your car's tire placard.
I realize that what you say is sometimes true but not always. I have a 2016 Vibe 315bhk that has a GVWR of 7749 and came with tires that have a load rating of 2540 lbs each. That leaves a margin of 2411 lbs without subtracting tongue weight. So as you can see some trailers have a quite large safety margin as far as tires go, although maybe not on axle specs.
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Old 08-17-2016, 06:41 PM   #78
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I realize that what you say is sometimes true but not always. I have a 2016 Vibe 315bhk that has a GVWR of 7749 and came with tires that have a load rating of 2540 lbs each. That leaves a margin of 2411 lbs without subtracting tongue weight. So as you can see some trailers have a quite large safety margin as far as tires go, although maybe not on axle specs.
Both are examples of what a trailer manufacturer determines to be appropriate fitments for those trailers.
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:34 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
The quote was from a summary on their web page.

(snark to follow)
If you were paying attention in the seminar you would have seen the chart with the specific numbers. I am making the simple statement that a "majority have one or more tire and/or axle in overload."
57% is a majority. Low pressure tires are most of the 57%. Other studies by DOT have similar data with 40% of vehicles having a tire with "significant" low pressure even when measured hot which means the pressure is artificially high by 5 to 10 psi so if the pressures were to be measured when the tires were cold the number with low pressure would be greater. How would you characterize it when two low pressure tires are discovered on one vehicle?

You may want to claim it is the tire company fault that the tire is overloaded or low on pressure but as an engineer who deals in facts. I do not invent the data.

Is it your position that if only 42.3675% of tires in a sample of 22,842 tires are low on pressure it isn't significant?

If you believe that RVs do not run with low pressure please present your data on a few hundred tires measured with calibrated pressure gauges and we can continue when you publish your readings. Till then I will accept RVSEF and DOT and RMA data.

Putting words in others mouths is for politicians and salesman.

What is amazing is that the highways are not littered with trailers and motorhomes considering all of your 'facts' and doom and gloom.


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Old 08-18-2016, 12:34 PM   #80
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Using the China Bomber's data, there should RV's with flats lining the interstates. The only RV I can remember seeing with a flat was MY pop-up, 20 years ago.
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