Tires question

[windsurfdog]

Well, I'm glad you picked out the comments you liked...

[phillyg]

Originally Posted by windsurfdog

+2...as long as speed is kept at or below max rated speed of the tires.

Many, if not most, "China bomb" incidents are caused by improper inflation or exceeding max speed or both...not because of where they are made.

Gotta disagree. I've been following the Chinese tire debacle for years and many folks have reported diligently checking pressure and not exceeding 65mph, and still having the blowouts.

[dannyabear]

Originally Posted by phillyg

Gotta disagree. I've been following the Chinese tire debacle for years and many folks have reported diligently checking pressure and not exceeding 65mph, and still having the blowouts.

Not to mention that there are several reports of the spare tire exploding while sitting on the spare tire rack..

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by dannyabear

Not to mention that there are several reports of the spare tire exploding while sitting on the spare tire rack..

LOL!! I had not heard that one but it doesn't surprise me. We had just picked up a new rig (checked the psi before we left), drove 2 hours and stopped at a truck stop for lunch. AFTER lunch (about an hour) we were walking back to the rig when one of our brand new china bombs exploded while just sitting in the parking lot. Several of our camping group weren't as lucky and had much more damage with practically new tires made in china over the past several years. So no more tires from China for us.

[G.B.]

Although I have been diligent with keeping the tires inflated properly and covered when not in use, I was highly suspect of the China Bombs that came on my 2014 Flagstaff. I replaced them a few weeks back with Maxxis ST tires. I went from load range C to E. Might be my imagination but I think the trailer tows better with the new tires. I'm going to order a set of TPMS monitors for added piece of mind.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

LOL!! I had not heard that one but it doesn't surprise me. We had just picked up a new rig (checked the psi before we left), drove 2 hours and stopped at a truck stop for lunch. AFTER lunch (about an hour) we were walking back to the rig when one of our brand new china bombs exploded while just sitting in the parking lot. Several of our camping group weren't as lucky and had much more damage with practically new tires made in china over the past several years. So no more tires from China for us.

They could have been damaged before you got them. Delivery driver, Dealer movements and just setting around the dealer lot not properly maintained.

There are no checks & balances for any of that activity.

A common inflation error on the trailer manufacturer's part is not ensuring the tires are properly inflated when they leave the factory, especially if the tire/wheel assemblies were provided by an OEM provider. Proper assembly for them is 40 PSI.

[Brother Les]

Originally Posted by windsurfdog

Many, if not most, "China bomb" incidents are caused by improper inflation or exceeding max speed or both...not because of where they are made.

Now that statement is the joke of the day......

I have had two of my original (china) 'tires' go south (boom) and neither had anything to do with psi or speed......

[Tireman9]

As a tire engineer I am alsway amused by the posts of many who claim to know why their tire failed (The tire plant was painted blue not green) but they do not offer information on how many years they trained as a tire forensic specialist. For too many tire engineering is akin to "Black Magic".

Maybe some of you "experts could educate the rest of us on why and how this tire failed.


Or maybe they can point to the evidence in this tire that supports their conclusion.


Even the tires that fail when not even on the road have a scientific reason


Please share your wisdom and knowledge so the rest may learn.

[windsurfdog]

Nope, Tireman9...way too easy to yell "CHINA BOMB" than to consider forensics...or take responsibility for poor maintenance/prevention...

[phillyg]

[QUOTE=Tireman9;1286997]As a tire engineer I am alsway amused by the posts of many who claim to know why their tire failed (when not even on the road have a scientific reason.............

I wouldn't ever consider I know more about tires than a tire engineer. However, based on anecdotal evidence from hundreds of tire posts, and from my own experience, it appears that many Chinese branded tires fail prematurely, even when users are diligent about PSI, not going over the speed rating and avoiding road hazards when possible.

I believe most RV mfgrs. put the cheapest tires on their units, and sometimes they don't even last 5,000 miles, and that's wrong IMHO. Interestingly, I've not seen a single report about a failure on the Sailun G637, which is also Chinese, and to which many folks are upgrading. Perhaps that's because there are far fewer on the road, so time may tell a different story.

[Tireman9]

[QUOTE=phillyg;1287296]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

As a tire engineer I am alsway amused by the posts of many who claim to know why their tire failed (when not even on the road have a scientific reason.............

I wouldn't ever consider I know more about tires than a tire engineer. However, based on anecdotal evidence from hundreds of tire posts, and from my own experience, it appears that many Chinese branded tires fail prematurely, even when users are diligent about PSI, not going over the speed rating and avoiding road hazards when possible.

I believe most RV mfgrs. put the cheapest tires on their units, and sometimes they don't even last 5,000 miles, and that's wrong IMHO. Interestingly, I've not seen a single report about a failure on the Sailun G637, which is also Chinese, and to which many folks are upgrading. Perhaps that's because there are far fewer on the road, so time may tell a different story.

I also have not read negatives on Sailun but as you said I believe they are relatively new to the market.

Too often people confuse correlation with causation. If 95% of tires on trailers are made in China why would you not expect 95% of the problems to be on China made tires.

It is also a fact that a majority of RV trailers have one or more tire in overload. I also observe that 80+% of the rv trailers I see on the interstate are exceeding the speed rating of the ST tires that came on the RV. When I do inflation gauge checks at RV events I usually find at least 10% are off by more than 5 psi so even those that check their tires (xx%) do not necessarily get the correct info even if they were not overloading their RV.

It would be interesting to know what % of readers here know their actual individual tire loads. How many know what the RV mfg suggested for minimum inflation and the list goes on.

[NMWildcat]

I appreciate the input of the several tire engineers that always respond to anything tire related. I have learned several things from their posts. But mostly what I get out of the long rants and educational lessons is that they believe most of us are too ignorant to talk about our opinions that are formed from our real-life experiences, much less pick the correct tires for our rigs and maintain them. My RL experience makes me shy away from tires made in China. Period. I will buy the highest load range LT tires that will fit my rims. I will inflate them to the cold PSI on the tire. This works for me and I have had no problems at all except the occasional road hazard. So when I (or any one else) tell others about opinions based on experiences, it doesn't automatically mean we are ignorant of all the 'RV Tire Rules'.

[f5moab]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

As a tire engineer I am alsway amused by the posts of many who claim to know why their tire failed (The tire plant was painted blue not green) but they do not offer information on how many years they trained as a tire forensic specialist. For too many tire engineering is akin to "Black Magic".

Maybe some of you "experts could educate the rest of us on why and how this tire failed.

Obviously it was destroyed with a chain saw.


But I wish someone would explain the term CHINA BOMB. Since I have read many times, on the internet, on this forum, and talking with a tire retailer in Moab who sold a ton of trailer tires, ALL trailer (ST) tires are made in China.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by f5moab

Obviously it was destroyed with a chain saw.


But I wish someone would explain the term CHINA BOMB. Since I have read many times, on the internet, on this forum, and talking with a tire retailer in Moab who sold a ton of trailer tires, ALL trailer (ST) tires are made in China.

Not all ST tires are made in China. Some of our group run Maxxis 8008, which were made in Thailand, and have had good experiences with them. Most of us run LT tires now due to bad experiences with the influx of ST tires made in China and placed on a lot of new rigs from the factory. In our group any of us who tried to run those tires more than 18 months had very costly blowouts. Thus we think the term China Bombs is deserved. Since switching to LTs we have had no further problems. Everyone makes their own decisions. I hope you have good experiences with your tires, whatever they may be.

[Blackhat6mike]

I act on my personal experience with the Shandong Chinese tires and NOT recommendations from others. I know what I know. Others are on their own. If you read below, you will see that the manufacturers ARE NOT REQUIRED TO TEST THEIR TIRES.

Tire Business was unable to find any definitive, reliable information on eight of the companies: Qingdao Fuyingda Rubber; Qingdao Lidingwei Rubber; Shandong Anchi Tyres.; Shandong Chuanghua Tire; Shandong Shegshitailai Rubber.; Shandong Xinghongyuan Tyre; and Shandong Yongjin Rubber; and Wuyi Qiangnai Rubber.

The latest list from the DOT shows 960 codes issued, including 80 issued in the past three years. Of the 960 codes listed, about 80 are for plants that are closed or no longer make tires, with another 30 or so for retread plants, factories that don't make tires or make only bicycle tires and/or tubes.

The alphanumeric DOT code indicates the tire maker certifies tires bearing the mark meet all U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard requirements. The manufacturer is not required to test the tires, but if they are sold in the U.S. they are subject to random testing by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), with penalties assessed if the tires aren't in compliance with federal standards.

Do you believe the NHTSA actually test all these tires???

[Blackhat6mike]

Originally Posted by f5moab

Obviously it was destroyed with a chain saw.


But I wish someone would explain the term CHINA BOMB. Since I have read many times, on the internet, on this forum, and talking with a tire retailer in Moab who sold a ton of trailer tires, ALL trailer (ST) tires are made in China.

No, not ALL ST tires are made in China. My Maxxis M8008 ST 225/70/15 are made in Thailand per the stamp on the sidewall. Perhaps the Moab tire retailer should be made aware of this.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Blackhat6mike

No, not ALL ST tires are made in China. My Maxxis M8008 ST 225/70/15 are made in Thailand per the stamp on the sidewall. Perhaps the Moab tire retailer should be made aware of this.

RE "China Bombs"
I believe, based on testing of tires made in China, is that good quality tires can be made there. The issue is who is directing and controlling the quality of the product. If the "customer" (RV assembler) only buys the lowest price tires they can find then quality can be very suspect.

Does anyone know which RVs if any, come with MAXXIS brand tires OE?

I do know that there are many owners who have had tire problems who either do not know how or do not want to make the ten minute effort to file a complaint with NHTSA. I have blog posts on the process and have posted info on NHTSA complaints on many RV forums. Even with that some tell me they simply can't bother. But of course they want to be able to complain about NHTSA not doing anything to force companies to improve tire quality.

One way I can suggest you can get a feel for tire quality is to check the length of their warranty on factory issues and to ask about a road hazard warranty. The RH warranty would cover any failure for any reason so they can't simply claim you "hit something".

Compare the warranty you get and can buy on brand name tires with the "no-name" tires that are OE on RV trailers.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

I appreciate the input of the several tire engineers that always respond to anything tire related. I have learned several things from their posts. But mostly what I get out of the long rants and educational lessons is that they believe most of us are too ignorant to talk about our opinions that are formed from our real-life experiences, much less pick the correct tires for our rigs and maintain them. My RL experience makes me shy away from tires made in China. Period. I will buy the highest load range LT tires that will fit my rims. I will inflate them to the cold PSI on the tire. This works for me and I have had no problems at all except the occasional road hazard. So when I (or any one else) tell others about opinions based on experiences, it doesn't automatically mean we are ignorant of all the 'RV Tire Rules'.

I would not suggest that not knowing the details of failed tire analysis i.e. "ignorance" on the subject and a negative comment on a person's intelligence. I will admit to being ignorant on the skill of brain surgery or to being ignorant on "String Theory" of advanced particle physics. The intent of my posts are to point out that many who have tire problems seem to jump to a conclusion that is many times incorrect. I have repeatedly offered to try and help people learn more about the "Root Cause" of the tire problem. I firmly believe that if you don't know and understand the "Why" of something failing then it is just a crap shoot on the probability of the problem being avoided from a future repeat.

Yes "China Bomb" or "I had a Blowout" are quick and easy claims to make but can distract you from looking for the clues that may help you to understand if the failure was caused by a factory mistake or leaking valve core or cumulative damage.

If someone has a failure they simply dispose of the tire ASAP without being sure they have recorded the DOT serial or captured a few in-focus close up pictures of the failed tire. The picture of the failed Goodyear tire seen in post #28 is a good example. That picture was cleard enough to preserve and show the evidence that the tire had suffered an air loss (slow leak) and been driven on for a number of miles at full highway speed. The driver initially claimed, incorrectly, that tire was "defective". Learning that he would have been warned in time to prevent damage to the RV was a valuable lesson on the advantages of using TPMS. He would have saves a few hundred dollars even after figuring in the cost of the tPMS.

All 3 tires shown in post #28 present evidence on why they failed and knowing that it would be possible to prevent a re-ocurrance.

[rockfordroo]

[QUOTE=Tireman9;1288065]

Originally Posted by phillyg

Too often people confuse correlation with causation. If 95% of tires on trailers are made in China why would you not expect 95% of the problems to be on China made tires.

Exactly. People do this all the time, not just on China Bombs. Unfortunately, it's human nature to do so.

But I can guarantee that unless you went to the factory and picked up your unit, you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what your tires went through before you hitched your RV to your TV and tooled out of the dealers lot. (Even if you picked it up at the factory, do you know how it was treated on it's way from the Lippert shop to the factory? Probably not.)

So even if you were meticulous and religious about your tires, the damage could very well (and probably was) already be done.

[palmetto rogue]

x2 nmwildcat. Tireman "root cause analysis" is really impracticle when you are sitting on the side of the highway. Likewise asking 5 whys when you need to get back on the road. I have posted before with your responses and respect your experience but when I have had two sets of china bombs fail in 3 years it starts to become a trend. I have always maintained pressure, stored properly and avoided road hazard as much as possible and not operated above or near load limits and still had on the first set of tires a blowout on front left and later rear right. A year later on marathons a separation detection by tpms before failure. How can I not conclude tire quality, design or application as being a "root cause".