5th wheel hitch with turning point

[Jimer]

You would not believe what my dealer did!! Went to pick up my 5er from service and they reinstalled bolts in turning point king pin. I pulled out of dealer and my wedge exploded!! On the first turn.

[NMWildcat]

I can imagine Jimer! I've had a few service shops install the bolts to prevent my Sidewinder from turning so they could easily move my RV with a forklift. And a few forgot to remove them, but fortunately I looked before hooking up.
I'm hoping they will fix/replace the affected parts. I'd be inspecting both sides of the hitch, truck, and RV for any damage.

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

I can imagine Jimer! I've had a few service shops install the bolts to prevent my Sidewinder from turning so they could easily move my RV with a forklift. And a few forgot to remove them, but fortunately I looked before hooking up.
I'm hoping they will fix/replace the affected parts. I'd be inspecting both sides of the hitch, truck, and RV for any damage.

I hope you did not try and drive it with the wedge disabled.

And Insure THEY pay to repair/replace any damage and the wedge.

BTW, what hitch do you have, I may actually have a spare wedge

[Jimer]

I looked and saw the wedge in place before hooking up at dealer. I have the puck system (B&W)and they are going to replace the whole head of hitch and the king pin. I did mention that when bolts are installed the next step would be to remove the wedge.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Jimer

I looked and saw the wedge in place before hooking up at dealer. I have the puck system (B&W)and they are going to replace the whole head of hitch and the king pin. I did mention that when bolts are installed the next step would be to remove the wedge.

Sorry you had issues, you are not the 1st to come here and say their dealer did the same.

Under 'normal' circumstances, removing the wedge would be the thing most folks do after installing the lock-out bolts... IF... they were going to use a conventional 5th wheel hitch.

Since many dealers use forklifts for maneuvering, most have nothing more than a short stub of pipe with a pin welded on one end that goes through a hole in one of the forks of the forklift and then the stub pipe mates to the king pin on the pin box, the wedge can stay in place and they never have to remove it.

Should they have told you or unlocked the hitch... sure...but lesson learned and I bet you will never hook up at the dealer again without checking.

[Jimer]

I have the puck system-in my 2019 duramax. The wedge failed and broke apart. The dealer is replacing king pin and “head” on my b&w hitch. The base of the hitch looked good. Is it possible that the integrity of the truck bed (puck holes)was comprised?

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by Jimer

I have the puck system-in my 2019 duramax. The wedge failed and broke apart. The dealer is replacing king pin and “head” on my b&w hitch. The base of the hitch looked good. Is it possible that the integrity of the truck bed (puck holes)was comprised?

Im betting the frame is fine, BUT:

It certainly would not hurt to have a good body shop look at it, just for your own peace of mind..............AND to insure the dealer is on the hook should it be damaged

[Hclarkx]

A bit off topic, but those here will be interested. My wedge failed. It's build up from welded layers (1/4" each) and the welds broke dropping the lower two sections and leaving my 5er swinging around wildly. Fortunately what was left of the wedge jambed onto the hitch and the 5er did not reach the cab.



Etrailer would not replace it out of warranty. They best they offered was the name of the manufacturer in Mexico. Then they sent a new one overnight ($$$$$ at my expense) to the wrong address in Yosemite.


The replacement had much deeper welds. The welds in the one that failed were not much deeper than a tack weld. Those with the earlier wedge like mine are at risk of failure.


Please inspect your wedge. If the welds are not huge and very deep, you may have an early one that can fail. Made in Mexico I think (the new one was). Not a Reese product.

[DouglasReid]

Originally Posted by Hclarkx

A bit off topic, but those here will be interested. My wedge failed. It's build up from welded layers (1/4" each) and the welds broke dropping the lower two sections and leaving my 5er swinging around wildly. Fortunately what was left of the wedge jambed onto the hitch and the 5er did not reach the cab.



Etrailer would not replace it out of warranty. They best they offered was the name of the manufacturer in Mexico. Then they sent a new one overnight ($$$$$ at my expense) to the wrong address in Yosemite.


The replacement had much deeper welds. The welds in the one that failed were not much deeper than a tack weld. Those with the earlier wedge like mine are at risk of failure.


Please inspect your wedge. If the welds are not huge and very deep, you may have an early one that can fail. Made in Mexico I think (the new one was). Not a Reese product.

I only have one question, do you use one of those plastic lube plates on your pin so as to eliminate the need to grease the 5er hitch?

If the answer is yes that is most likely the problem. Those disks raise the pin plate about 5/8" above the hitch so the top portion of the wedge is not in contact with the hitch.

This results in all that stress being put on only the lower wedge layers, overloading them in a sheer when turning.

I used one of those til I got the Sidewinder. After I looked at what that plate did to the height and how it was bearing on the wedge I started spraying the hitch with Lithium Grease each time I hook up.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by DouglasReid

I only have one question, do you use one of those plastic lube plates on your pin so as to eliminate the need to grease the 5er hitch?

If the answer is yes that is most likely the problem. Those disks raise the pin plate about 5/8" above the hitch so the top portion of the wedge is not in contact with the hitch.

This results in all that stress being put on only the lower wedge layers, overloading them in a sheer when turning.

I used one of those til I got the Sidewinder. After I looked at what that plate did to the height and how it was bearing on the wedge I started spraying the hitch with Lithium Grease each time I hook up.

I've never seen a Teflon lube disc that was thick enough it raised the pin plate 5/8" so maybe that was a typo? In any case, I'm not a fan of them either.

I've seen a lot of guys high hitch because of them and others struggle to release the pin because it puts the pin on a bind with the jaws/bar.

If the hitch has a LOT of slop then 'maybe' one could use it OK but on newer hitches with machined jaws to eliminate slop, good old grease is way better than the disc.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Hclarkx

A bit off topic, but those here will be interested. My wedge failed. It's build up from welded layers (1/4" each) and the welds broke dropping the lower two sections and leaving my 5er swinging around wildly. Fortunately what was left of the wedge jambed onto the hitch and the 5er did not reach the cab.



Etrailer would not replace it out of warranty. They best they offered was the name of the manufacturer in Mexico. Then they sent a new one overnight ($$$$$ at my expense) to the wrong address in Yosemite.


The replacement had much deeper welds. The welds in the one that failed were not much deeper than a tack weld. Those with the earlier wedge like mine are at risk of failure.


Please inspect your wedge. If the welds are not huge and very deep, you may have an early one that can fail. Made in Mexico I think (the new one was). Not a Reese product.

I guess I don't understand why the wedge attaching bolts didn't hold the wedge pieces together?

Didn't your attaching bolts compress the wedge against the bottom of the pin box as shown in the photo below?

[frank4711]

Those wedge bolts call for 200 lbs ft tq and check regularly... dealer put my wedge while I was doing PDI I checked it when I got home it was way short of 200 lbs

[5picker]

Originally Posted by frank4711

Those wedge bolts call for 200 lbs ft tq and check regularly... dealer put my wedge while I was doing PDI I checked it when I got home it was way short of 200 lbs

I believe LCI calls for 200 Ft/Lb on their wedge bolts for the Turning Point.
Reese calls for 150 Ft/Lb for the wedge bolts for the Revolution and Sidewinder.

Regardless... checking for proper torque is paramount.

[frank4711]

just checked and the wedge that I bought for my B&W Patriot calls for 150 lb. 5picker gets it right again... need to be checked regularly

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by DouglasReid

I only have one question, do you use one of those plastic lube plates on your pin so as to eliminate the need to grease the 5er hitch?

If the answer is yes that is most likely the problem. Those disks raise the pin plate about 5/8" above the hitch so the top portion of the wedge is not in contact with the hitch.

This results in all that stress being put on only the lower wedge layers, overloading them in a sheer when turning.

I used one of those til I got the Sidewinder. After I looked at what that plate did to the height and how it was bearing on the wedge I started spraying the hitch with Lithium Grease each time I hook up.

No, I don't. The ramp at the front (rear?) of the hitch plate contacts the wedge at various levels including the lower sections (in addition to the tongue of the wedge extending into the hitch plate keyway). For reference, the original had welds about 1/8" deep maximum (vertically up across the four plates at places around the periphery of the wedge). Only the weld material connected the plates to one another and the total of the cross sections of the welds was maybe 1/4 of a square inch, probably less.

The replacement wedge (got it a year ago) had welds up to 1/2" deep that provided more weld material between layers and actually melted the layer steel together to some extent (the trough made by the very deep welds extended outward into the plates a bit). The new wedge also has a bit of inside corner weld on the sides of the bolt recess so adds to locking the 2nd and 3rd plates together.

As a hobby welder and an engineer, I'm embarrassed that I didn't spot this weakness five years ago when the first wedge arrived.

Clearly I was not the first one to experience failure or the later wedge would not have had such massively upgraded welds!

If your wedge does not have massive welds locking the four plates together and an inch of weld on each side between the bolt holes, I suggest you have a welder improve the welds or get a new wedge.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by 5picker

I guess I don't understand why the wedge attaching bolts didn't hold the wedge pieces together?

Didn't your attaching bolts compress the wedge against the bottom of the pin box as shown in the photo below?

There is a cut-out area in the bottom two plates. The bolt holes go through only the top two plates. The bolt heads are recessed in the cut-out area. So the bolts do not help hold the plates together. At least this is the case in my original and replacement wedges.

Interesting that you should mention this, it was the bolt heads that wedged up onto the hitch top plate and kept the 5er from getting all the way around to the cab.

I was on a winding road into Yosemite when the bottom two plates fell off.

[Hclarkx]

Originally Posted by 5picker

I guess I don't understand why the wedge attaching bolts didn't hold the wedge pieces together?

Didn't your attaching bolts compress the wedge against the bottom of the pin box as shown in the photo below?

From your photo, you have proper welds connecting the four layers. On my original, the weld material was flush with the edges of the plate but extended in no more than 1/8" inch. And I don't mean recesed 1/8", I mean 1/8" of weld material extending into the plate (at its center since it's cupped at the bottom) and no recess above the weld material.

My replacement looks much like yours; the weld is about 3/8" deep and there's about a 1/8" recess from the top of the welds to the edge of the plates.

[Hclarkx]

The only other thing I might mention is that my hitch top plate was cast and as such had somewhat rounded edges along the pin keyway. This might have helped allow the two remaining plates move up on top of the top plate after losing the bottom two plates. My current hitch has a 1/4" steep top plate with crisp edges that might resist that action.