activate Reese Revolution or not?

[LouNick]

Once again I tried searching for info on the Reese Revolution pin box, and came up with nothing. Seems that the only thing I can find from Reese is a similar design called the Reese Sidewinder. Could it be that the Revolution is simply the same product renamed for Forest River products?

Sure would be nice to see an exploded parts diagram.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by LouNick

Once again I tried searching for info on the Reese Revolution pin box, and came up with nothing. Seems that the only thing I can find from Reese is a similar design called the Reese Sidewinder. Could it be that the Revolution is simply the same product renamed for Forest River products?

Sure would be nice to see an exploded parts diagram.

That is the same unit, I don't know why you just can not call Reese? I did and they sent me a free wedge that I had cut down to the perfect fit. The 1/4" space is correct on all the units. I'm going to try and attach a picture of the frame that it is built into. No need to worry about the construction. It seems it will not upload again, will try later. I sent the pictures to Rodeo George already so they might be in a file already. I have to have Herk look at this computer in Goshen to find out why some times it works and other I get an error message.

[B and B]

I called them for. A wedge and no go. Going to ask at Goshen for one! See what happens. You are right about it tightening up, 3500 miles on mine and it is not as loose but I can still move it.


Sent from my finger typing on glass

[ColoradoKampers]

Hey Rick,
Back to your original question - activate or not. I'm pulling a small Wildcat 5er with a 2012 F-150 Ecoboost with the "super"-short box (5.5') and couldn't live without the Sidewinder. When turned really tight, the trailer cap is very close to the back of the cab, but after about 10,000 miles I've never touched it - but, way too close to not watch it carefully (IMHO).

However...I recently learned of a downside to the Sidewinder. A few weeks ago I dropped my trailer off at a trusted shop for some routine brake/bearing maintenance. My last remark to the mechanic was "watch that hitch - it will double pivot if you don't know what you are doing". Well, at 7AM the next morning I received a call from the shop - in attempting to maneuver the trailer, they didn't have the wedge locked in and the trailer crashed into the upright of a fork lift, putting a small, but expensive gash in the front cap. At it turns out - it costs around $3000 to repair, repaint and re-decal a fiberglass front cap. At any rate - I will NEVER leave the trailer for service without locking out the rear pivot using the holes that are provided just for that purpose.

So - lesson learned. Even thought the hitch has specific warning decals - don't expect everyone to see the decals or understand how dangerous the hitch can be if it double pivots.

ps...mine won't move by hand either OC

[kenh]

I've been towing my trailer with a B&W 5th wheel companion with a 2500HD for 3 years. I could make a 90 without any problems at all. I traded for an F250 crew cab, short bed and installed a new Curt E16. 90 degrees is no longer possible with the Ford. Anticipating this, I planned to enable my Revolution. I unlocked it and it could not be moved. It was frozen.

After 3 days I was able to hammer the Revolution left and right 90 degrees with an 8lb hammer and a block of wood. It also required a can of Liquid Wrench and Deep Creep. Although it moves a little better, I can't move it leveraging an 8' digging bar between the wedge and the king pin. This is a tremendous amount of force. But I don't have to hit it as hard with the 8lb hammer and block of wood. So, it is more movable than before.

I tried to disassemble it without success. I was able to slide the pin box about 3/8" down the pin but it became apparent after 3 days it was not coming off that center pin above the castle nut. There was sand on top of the Teflon or plastic friction disk. I cleaned all I could reach. Then I sprayed all I could see with lithium and torqued the castle nut back to 80ft-lbs. It will not torque steady. That bothers me as well. I've torqued thousands of bolts and nuts. This does not feel right.

The custom wedge for the Curt E16 is not even close fitting the slot in the hitch plate. So, I installed the universal wedge and made a 30 mile pull. As I turn the pivot point under the Revolution t is so tight it pushed the truck sideways in the gravel as turned left while pulling out of my warehouse. It would not return to straight but would stay in a slightly cocked angle after I turned then straighten the truck and trailer. This caused the steering to pull badly to the point of being unsafe. It was so bad you could easily see the angle of the pin box looking in the rear view mirror.

I continued to drag it around for 30 or so miles and ended up in a school parking lot where I made about 40 or so fairly sharp turns hoping to loosen it up. No luck in loosing it up. I understand it needs to be tight but that stress is definitely being transferred into the hitch and truck bed as well as into the trailer frame. It actually budged one of the rails in the bed 1/8". A couple of times I would watch it as I turned and I could see the bed heaving and when the pin box finally released it would make a heck of a noise and shake the entire truck. In one case I turned until I could see it was obviously binding up. The angle was probably about 35 degrees. I measured the left side of the bed and right side at the rear corner. This binding had one side of the bed pushed up 1 1/8" higher than the other side. Once that particular bind released the bed leveled again. This is a substantial amount of stress on the hitch, truck and trailer frame.

This kind of stress cannot be good for the trailer frame, hitch or the stability of the truck. These 5th wheel frames are not as strong as we would hope. In all my years of towing I've never seen anything bind up like this.

I know this is an old thread but I would be interested to hear from anyone who has current experience with a nearly seized Revolution. I would also like to know how in the heck you get the pin box off that center pin above the castle nut. I felt that disassembling it and cleaning, lubricating or replacing the bushing was the answer but I tried everything up to wood spitting wedges to force it off that pin and it would not come off. Fearing I was about to tear something up, I gave up and re-torqued the castle nut and made that unpleasant 30 mile road test. I can make those 90 degree turns but at what cost, trailer frame damage?

I have been in touch with Reese. Apparently I need not be concerned about the binding of a nearly immovable pin box. I am not convinced this level of stress is acceptable at the hitch or the trailer frame. But they want to send me a wedge that is in spec for my hitch. Since a wedge (in spec) should fit tighter than the universal wedge that might force it back to straight after a turn. But it sure won't loosen up the pin box and eliminate these stresses applied to the truck and trailer frames. The replacement for my wedge is back-ordered. I look forward to receiving it but I'm not convinced that will resolve my problem other than maybe it will straighten the pin box after a turn.

I read every comment. Some Revolution pin boxes spin freely, some with some difficulty, some can't be moved. Wedges are important but really don't explain why some Revolution pin boxes bind up and some do not. This inconsistency is troubling.

If I can't get the Revolution pin box to work correctly I'll get rid of the F250 and find another 2500HD. I don't need it to spin like a wheel bearing, but it ought to rotate at least as well as a normal hitch plate, king pin and pin box. The binding, bending, and metal popping noises are not in the best interest of the trailer frame.

I would appreciate hearing your experiences these two years since this thread was last touched.

Thanks,
Ken

[Kirk Sr]

I use to pull my 8289WS with a 2006 GMC 6.5' CC4x4. I used the "universal" wedge that was bolted to the Revolution. When it was new, I used to have to put my weight into it to push the hitch aside by hand. After our first trip it started to squeak when making slight back and forth turns on a winding road. I sprayed "wet" graphite spray (it was what I already had, I guess you could use "dry" graphite spray but I don't know if the liquid carrier would evaporate before the graphite is able to seep all the way in...) in between the top of the lube plate and the pin box bolted to the frame. This seemed to help, and made it easier to swing the hitch out of the way by hand when camping. Looking at the design, I thought about dropping the hitch off of the pivot post and greasing it. I couldn't believe they didn't provide for some way to lubricate it I think there is something very wrong with your hitch if it binds bad enough to stress the hitch rails/bed/frame
The only thing I didn't like about the Revolution was that on a winding road, every time you would turn from one direction to the other, the wedge would allow for a little "nudge" as the force shifted from one direction to the other. I was going to buy a dedicated wedge designed for my hitch, but ended up buying a new long bed Duramax ; more room in the bed for stuff, so I went ahead and bolted up the Revolution as a standard pin box-no more "nudge" in the corners. Now I have to be careful when waking around the front of my trailer at camp so I don't bump into it

[B and B]

The main bearing is seized on the revolution. I would disable snd get a rebuilt hitch ASAP. You might damage the frame.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by kenh

I've been towing my trailer with a B&W 5th wheel companion with a 2500HD for 3 years. I could make a 90 without any problems at all. I traded for an F250 crew cab, short bed and installed a new Curt E16. 90 degrees is no longer possible with the Ford. Anticipating this, I planned to enable my Revolution. I unlocked it and it could not be moved. It was frozen.

After 3 days I was able to hammer the Revolution left and right 90 degrees with an 8lb hammer and a block of wood. It also required a can of Liquid Wrench and Deep Creep. Although it moves a little better, I can't move it leveraging an 8' digging bar between the wedge and the king pin. This is a tremendous amount of force. But I don't have to hit it as hard with the 8lb hammer and block of wood. So, it is more movable than before.

I tried to disassemble it without success. I was able to slide the pin box about 3/8" down the pin but it became apparent after 3 days it was not coming off that center pin above the castle nut. There was sand on top of the Teflon or plastic friction disk. I cleaned all I could reach. Then I sprayed all I could see with lithium and torqued the castle nut back to 80ft-lbs. It will not torque steady. That bothers me as well. I've torqued thousands of bolts and nuts. This does not feel right.

The custom wedge for the Curt E16 is not even close fitting the slot in the hitch plate. So, I installed the universal wedge and made a 30 mile pull. As I turn the pivot point under the Revolution t is so tight it pushed the truck sideways in the gravel as turned left while pulling out of my warehouse. It would not return to straight but would stay in a slightly cocked angle after I turned then straighten the truck and trailer. This caused the steering to pull badly to the point of being unsafe. It was so bad you could easily see the angle of the pin box looking in the rear view mirror.

I continued to drag it around for 30 or so miles and ended up in a school parking lot where I made about 40 or so fairly sharp turns hoping to loosen it up. No luck in loosing it up. I understand it needs to be tight but that stress is definitely being transferred into the hitch and truck bed as well as into the trailer frame. It actually budged one of the rails in the bed 1/8". A couple of times I would watch it as I turned and I could see the bed heaving and when the pin box finally released it would make a heck of a noise and shake the entire truck. In one case I turned until I could see it was obviously binding up. The angle was probably about 35 degrees. I measured the left side of the bed and right side at the rear corner. This binding had one side of the bed pushed up 1 1/8" higher than the other side. Once that particular bind released the bed leveled again. This is a substantial amount of stress on the hitch, truck and trailer frame.

This kind of stress cannot be good for the trailer frame, hitch or the stability of the truck. These 5th wheel frames are not as strong as we would hope. In all my years of towing I've never seen anything bind up like this.

I know this is an old thread but I would be interested to hear from anyone who has current experience with a nearly seized Revolution. I would also like to know how in the heck you get the pin box off that center pin above the castle nut. I felt that disassembling it and cleaning, lubricating or replacing the bushing was the answer but I tried everything up to wood spitting wedges to force it off that pin and it would not come off. Fearing I was about to tear something up, I gave up and re-torqued the castle nut and made that unpleasant 30 mile road test. I can make those 90 degree turns but at what cost, trailer frame damage?

I have been in touch with Reese. Apparently I need not be concerned about the binding of a nearly immovable pin box. I am not convinced this level of stress is acceptable at the hitch or the trailer frame. But they want to send me a wedge that is in spec for my hitch. Since a wedge (in spec) should fit tighter than the universal wedge that might force it back to straight after a turn. But it sure won't loosen up the pin box and eliminate these stresses applied to the truck and trailer frames. The replacement for my wedge is back-ordered. I look forward to receiving it but I'm not convinced that will resolve my problem other than maybe it will straighten the pin box after a turn.

I read every comment. Some Revolution pin boxes spin freely, some with some difficulty, some can't be moved. Wedges are important but really don't explain why some Revolution pin boxes bind up and some do not. This inconsistency is troubling.

If I can't get the Revolution pin box to work correctly I'll get rid of the F250 and find another 2500HD. I don't need it to spin like a wheel bearing, but it ought to rotate at least as well as a normal hitch plate, king pin and pin box. The binding, bending, and metal popping noises are not in the best interest of the trailer frame.

I would appreciate hearing your experiences these two years since this thread was last touched.

Thanks,
Ken

You are correct, It seems that some move and others don't. The inside broke loose on mine from the weld that was holding the wedge nut in place inside it was the back bolt. I called Reese, they sent a hitch to my service guy in Danville Va. They removed my old one and installed a brand new sidewinder. It wouldn't move by hand, and still does not. The correct wedge will make a big difference, you can not have play in that chute (jaws) If you do you will have that nudge your talking about. Reese also sent me a oversized wedge that I took to the machine shop and had it cut to fit correctly. A few of us were told that no grease was necessary. Now that was in Goshen by the two engineers that designed it. Now they have changed there story about breaking it down and lubing it. You have to wiggle it down and off but you need two people for that. So I agree that they need to get it together it's just who you talk to on what day. Some people can push them 90 degrees with one hand. Mine it takes to grown men to even try to make it swing. But I have also found out that when it's a little tight it's easier to hook-up to. If you are still having a problem after you get the wedge, I would call them on it...Safe Travels to you...

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by B and B

The main bearing is seized on the revolution. I would disable snd get a rebuilt hitch ASAP. You might damage the frame.

I just found my paper work B&B did you know there is a 5 year warranty on the revolution? It's non transferable but it is 5 years I would be calling Cequents...as you suggested.

[kenh]

Thanks for the replies. Nothing beats experience!

Dropping the pin box and lubricating the bushing was my plan. But after three days using a sledge and wedges trying to push it down and off, I was unsuccessful.

I started wondering if Reese had some sort of 'puller' to pull the pin box downward. I began to feel I was bending metal and it was not coming down any further.

I agree that something is seized. It should slide off. Looking at the parts diagram, I should have been able to remove the castle nut and move it side to side while applying some downward pressure until is slide off that pin above the castle nut with or without the bushing. I only got it to come down maybe 1/2". In the little opening, I could see the pin but not the bushing. The pin was shiny. Maybe because I had beat the thing left and right for 3 days. I think the bushing must be seized in the pin box. It was not about to slide off. I had a good 2.25" to go to get it off. Since it was so tight coming off, I was wondering how I would 'press' it back on.

Feeling I was doing more harm than good, I soaked what I could see with lithium before tightening it back up. It took a lot of muscle on a 24" breaker bar to force the thing back up that 1/2" by tightening the castle nut.

That 5 years is not up. Reese is sending me a wedge that is supposed to be in spec for my hitch. They are unconcerned about the seized condition. I'll bet 4 men could not move this hitch 90 degrees just pushing at the kingpin. My wife (a pretty strong woman) and I can't move it. I can't budge it with an 8' digging bar by myself. I think I will get the wife to sit in the back seat and take a video.

1- I'll try the graphite. I can see how that might penetrate better than lithium. I did use 1/2 can of Liquid Wrench and nearly a full can of Deep Creep. Only a small amount of the Deep Creep came out above the castle nut. So, neither of those liquids penetrated very well. But they don't really leave any lubricant. Graphite might help.

2- I'll try the new wedge when it arrives, then drive it a little and see if it does loosen up. If it does not, I think B and B has the right idea. I probably need a new pin box before I really mess up something.

In the attached pictures, I turned then straightened and pulled about 50 yards yet the pin box was still shifted to one side. It cannot be pulled straight. I stomped on it once to see if I could jerk it straight and it still stayed cocked.

Thanks again to all for the advice,

Ken

[B and B]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

You are correct, It seems that some move and others don't. The inside broke loose on mine from the weld that was holding the wedge nut in place inside it was the back bolt. I called Reese, they sent a hitch to my service guy in Danville Va. They removed my old one and installed a brand new sidewinder. It wouldn't move by hand, and still does not. The correct wedge will make a big difference, you can not have play in that chute (jaws) If you do you will have that nudge your talking about. Reese also sent me a oversized wedge that I took to the machine shop and had it cut to fit correctly. A few of us were told that no grease was necessary. Now that was in Goshen by the two engineers that designed it. Now they have changed there story about breaking it down and lubing it. You have to wiggle it down and off but you need two people for that. So I agree that they need to get it together it's just who you talk to on what day. Some people can push them 90 degrees with one hand. Mine it takes to grown men to even try to make it swing. But I have also found out that when it's a little tight it's easier to hook-up to. If you are still having a problem after you get the wedge, I would call them on it...Safe Travels to you...

Engineers redesign and make changes when it found by techs in the field the design did work as designed! Some don't agree but that is the way it is.

[RangeMaggotBob]

Originally Posted by JoeMazz

I'd be interested as to why anyone wouldn't engage it.

I don't know about anybody else, but for me- I don't need it.

[scubafc]

I have a fifth wheel with a Reese Revolution. The dealer activated it, but did not put the bolts in the storage location. I am selling the camper to someone who wants the revolution deactivated. Can anyone tell me what size and grade bolts I need? Lock Washer? Torque spec? Thanks.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by scubafc

I have a fifth wheel with a Reese Revolution. The dealer activated it, but did not put the bolts in the storage location. I am selling the camper to someone who wants the revolution deactivated. Can anyone tell me what size and grade bolts I need? Lock Washer? Torque spec? Thanks.

5/8 x 1-1/2 Gr 5 torque to 120 lb/ft with locknuts or lock washers.

BTW, make sure you remove the wedge.

[scubafc]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

5/8 x 1-1/2 Gr 5 torque to 120 lb/ft with locknuts or lock washers.

Thank you.

[RangeMaggotBob]

Originally Posted by JoeMazz

I'd be interested as to why anyone wouldn't engage it.

Maybe because I don't need it?

[riverss]

i think it is the greatest thing sense ice cream was invented IMHO!!!

[kenh]

I had to enable the Revolution on my 2012 8265WS when I traded the 2500HD short bed for the Ford F250 short bed. I broke the paint on the locking bolts at the rear of the Revolution pin box for the first time about 4 weeks ago. Never needed it until I got the Ford.

Someone will feel it necessary to tell me they don't need the Revolution or Sidewinder with their 2500HD short bed (which I know) or tell me I should have bought a long bed F250 or maybe even suggest a slider. I know these things to be true myself. I've owned both trucks and I prefer not to use a slider. But at the time I bought this F250 short bed, I did not find a long bed I liked when I needed it. So, I'm currently towing with the F250 short bed truck and I'll make the best of it by using the Revolution that came with my trailer.


The Reese wedge I purchased for the Curt 16K hitch newly installed on my F250 was out of spec and did not fit the Curt hitch plate correctly. But the good folks at Reese sent me a replacement and it fits the hitch plate as it should.

After about 2800 miles of towing, the pin box cannot be moved by hand. With all my weight (192lbs) I might budge it a 1/4". It was completely frozen when I first unlocked it, so any rotation is an improvement. I've lubricated it with graphite and tried lithium based on recommendations from this forum. Doesn't help.

At this point, the Revolution is real tight which may not be a bad thing. It probably acts much like a sway bar. I'm not going to worry about how tight it is for now since Reese seems not to be concerned with my comments about it being frozen. I'll worry about it in 1 year when it is due for the annual 'tear down'. I was a professional mechanic and was involved in racing for a number of years. I'm pretty good at taking things apart. But I gave up on 'tearing down' this Revolution. I could not get it apart.


After towing from Georgia to Wisconsin and meandering about parks in between, the pin box is still nearly frozen in place. When I first enabled it, I spent days of hammering and pulling and was only able to get it to drop down 1/2". I tried unsuccessfully to tear it down for inspection as described in the manual. But that gave me a chance to flood it with lubricant. I re-torqued the castle nut to 80 ft-lbs.

I put the replacement wedge from Reese on the pin box this week and it definitely fits the Curt 16K. That first part number was simply out of spec and did not fit. For the previous 3 weeks I towed with the universal wedge. I look forward to the next 2K mile trip with the replacement wedge to see how it works out.

This trailer towed a lot better when with the short bed 2500HD and B&W hitch when I did not need the Revolution. The sway factor is worse with the Revolution enabled. But that is tolerable. What bothers me more is the problem we have disconnecting the trailer from the hitch. I never had this problem with the 2500HD and the B&W hitch. We could put down the landing gear, chock the trailer and pull the handle and the hitch released the king pin. This is not the case with the Curt 16K and the Revolution with its wedge pushed up in the hitch plate.

Every time we stop with the Revolution enabled with the Curt 16K and try to disconnect the hitch, you can't pull the release. I never had this issue with the B&W. We spent a couple of hours this week connecting and disconnecting the trailer with the new wedge from Reese and the problem persists. I've tried slacking off the wedge a bit but even then the bar can be impossible to pull for the wife. I have to get out and yank the release handle myself.

It is fair to say that a lot of things are different. I had a B&W Companion on the 2500HD and did not need the Revolution to make a 90 degree. I have a Curt 16K on the F250 short bed and I must have the Revolution enabled to safely turn the same trailer. I made the decision not to use a slider. So, this is not an 'apples to apples' comparison. Same trailer, different trucks and hitches.

So far I much preferred the way the trailer towed and disconnected using the 2500HD short bed and the B&W hitch WITHOUT the Revolution enabled.

Based on my 2800 miles towing experience with the Revolution enabled, the Revolution is a less than perfect 'work around'. The wife told me Wednesday after we tried out the replacement wedge from Reese that I should get another hitch, truck or both. She expects the Revolution, F250 and Curt 16K to work like the 2500HD and the B&W hitch. It definitely does not.

I am not slamming my Ford. This F250 drags the trailer up and down the mountains way better than my 6L 2500HD and uses about 27% less fuel. So, there is a lot I like about the Ford. Otherwise I would not have traded. I'm still trying to adjust to the Revolution and that has so far not been very satisfying in comparison to my last tow vehicle where I did not need the Revolution enabled.

The Revolution manual says I need to tear down and inspect that pin box each year. I spent 4 days pounding on it with a block of wood and an 8lb hammer and only got it to barely rotate and drop down a 1/2" or so. I had intended to pull it off that center pin above the castle nut. I could not do it and as tight as it is now I'll bet I won't be able to 'tear down' for inspection a year from now.

That bothers me that the manual suggests I should be able to 'tear it down' but it was so frozen to that pin, it could not be dismantled. I think my problems with Revolution are just beginning. I will try like 'h@#*@' in 12 months tear it down again as specified by Reese. By that time (if it does not fail before then) I will probably have towed 8-10K miles. I'll come back here and update this forum next year and let you know IF I was able to 'tear down' the Revolution per the manufacturer's recommendation.

Reese was unconcerned when I told them my pin box was frozen when I first enabled it and remains nearly frozen now. They lead me to believe the new wedge will resolve my concerns with the Revolution.

I would be interested to hear from those of you who have performed the required annual 'tear down' on your Revolution pin box described on page 7 of the manual. I fully intend to continue my discussion with Reese regarding the annual 'tear down' requirement on my nearly immovable pin box.

Thanks again to those of you who have offered your advice and experience.

Regards,

Kenh

[Fivealive]

Kenh, I feel your pain. I tossed way too many profanities at my pinbox when it was activated. It was wonderful when I got it to engage in less than 3 tries. I moved onto a lb F250 and locked it up. Hooks up like a dream first time, every time. No more maintenance or obnoxious noises.

[OldCoot]

Have used mine since Feb2012 and never had a hitching/unhitching problem. Made my own wedge. After more than 40K miles towing, I still cannot swivel it side to side even with a 4' cheater bar. I do, when the opportunity arises, will spray some white lithium grease on the wear plate when it is turned close to 90°. I don't worry about it at all. I have a 16K Reese in an 05 Silverado 1500 short bed.