Bad Tires

farmbone · 07-29-2013, 12:37 PM

Well, I debated whether to replace my tires on my one year old 8281ws before our trip to Florida. Two blow outs within two hours told me I made the wrong decision. The crappy tires that came with the unit did not have that many miles on them and were covered when not in use. I write this to warn others that the trail express tires that came with Rockwood ultra lights are not to be trusted on my opinion. I'm religious about checking the pressure and even had a TPMS on them. No warning, just boom. Blew out side wall both times. Fortunately no damage to trailer and I stopped to buy a spare after the first one blew!. I weighed my trailer fully loaded and I was well under my max load of 9600lbs. Shame on Forest River for building such a nice trailer and putting low quality tires on them and at the top of their weight load to boot.

I wanted to go with Maxxis which I have had before on another trailer but the discount tire where I was did not have them in stock. So, since I was not going to take a chance on a third blowout I had to buy what they had which was Carslile load range E. Can anyone give me advice on the tire pressure to run? Discount Tire wanted to put 80lbs in them since that is what is on the side wall. I know that is just the max pressure. Also, I've read on the forums that my aluminum rims are probably rated for 65lbs. I've read that the tires will build up heat if not run at max pressure but I know that is not right because I have load E tires on my F 350 and the sticker on the pillar says to run them at 65lbs and I have not had any problems for 8 years. I will probably run my trailer tires at 65lbs based on the rim recs and the weight of my trailer unless I hear a good reason not to. Thanks for your help and letting me rant.

**Herk7769** · 07-29-2013, 12:49 PM

You can safely run 65 PSI in those rims and tires.

My load Range E tires on the truck are placarded at 65 PSI on the fronts.

jevanb · 07-29-2013, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herk7769

My load Range E tires on the truck are placarded at 65 PSI on the fronts.

I run mine at 78PSI all the time, they last a lot longer. Got 68K out of the first set of factory`s.

**Herk7769** · 07-29-2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jevanb

I run mine at 78PSI all the time, they last a lot longer. Got 68K out of the first set of factory`s.

Are you talking about the truck or the camper?
His camper's aluminum rims are only rated for 65 PSI.

rockport · 07-29-2013, 01:12 PM

I ran 70psi cold on my Maxxis load range E tires, went from north texas to colorado springs, then down to santa fe, then back home. TST monitor showed tires heating up to max of about 106 in the sun after running a few hours, and pressure maxed out at about 80-82 psi after heating up.. could not find any rating on the rims when new tires were being put on.

Just glad i changed out the trail express tires before the trip. even sold them to Discount tire for 100. and slept alot better on the trip.

farmbone · 07-29-2013, 01:15 PM

Herk, how did find out about the rim max pressure? When I looked at my rims they only had the weight limit of 2150lbs stamped on them. Thx

mjones12 · 07-29-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmbone

Well, I debated whether to replace my tires on my one year old 8281ws before our trip to Florida. Two blow outs within two hours told me I made the wrong decision. The crappy tires that came with the unit did not have that many miles on them and were covered when not in use. I write this to warn others that the trail express tires that came with Rockwood ultra lights are not to be trusted on my opinion. I'm religious about checking the pressure and even had a TPMS on them. No warning, just boom. Blew out side wall both times. Fortunately no damage to trailer and I stopped to buy a spare after the first one blew!. I weighed my trailer fully loaded and I was well under my max load of 9600lbs. Shame on Forest River for building such a nice trailer and putting low quality tires on them and at the top of their weight load to boot.

I wanted to go with Maxxis which I have had before on another trailer but the discount tire where I was did not have them in stock. So, since I was not going to take a chance on a third blowout I had to buy what they had which was Carslile load range E. Can anyone give me advice on the tire pressure to run? Discount Tire wanted to put 80lbs in them since that is what is on the side wall. I know that is just the max pressure. Also, I've read on the forums that my aluminum rims are probably rated for 65lbs. I've read that the tires will build up heat if not run at max pressure but I know that is not right because I have load E tires on my F 350 and the sticker on the pillar says to run them at 65lbs and I have not had any problems for 8 years. I will probably run my trailer tires at 65lbs based on the rim recs and the weight of my trailer unless I hear a good reason not to. Thanks for your help and letting me rant.

What brand came on the trailer? Thanks.

rotorhead1250 · 07-29-2013, 01:49 PM

I upgraded to 15 inch rims and those same tires, I run mine at 70psi.

**Herk7769** · 07-29-2013, 03:12 PM

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...rims-6959.html

It goes back a ways (2010), but I think I can be forgiven for mis-remembering. This thread quoted at 60 PSI; not 65...

My steel rims are also stamped 2150 pounds; so the max is 50 PSI.

**Herk7769** · 07-29-2013, 03:23 PM

According to this thread, the rim load rating (in pounds) corresponds to the maximum pressure of a tire rated for that load rating.

https://www.heartlandowners.org/show...ressure-rating

If that is the case a 2150 pound rated rim has a maximum working pressure of 50 PSI (Load range C).

From that thread:

Here are the answers.......
14" Aluminum Rim max 50PSI
15" Aluminum Rim max 80PSI..........

Also, the 15" tires will rub the bottom of the wheel well on the 21FBS TT

jadatis · 07-30-2013, 02:33 AM

can use my Traveltrailer-tirepressure-calculator to be found in next map on my skydrive.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=a526e...E092E6DC%21348
In the American English language setting it uses 10% tonge-weight, but you can give your own in orange small cell .
So calculate it needing maxload and pressure needed for that. the 9600lbs for the TT you already gave.
If you cant work it out give the tire-data read from the sidewall and I will do it for you.

Then you can use this in your further search, and see if you can savely go lower in the pressure.
Mind that an E-load tire needs a higher pressure for the same load then a D load tire. Also you are allowed to use 10 psi higher pressure then the 65 psi belonging to a D load. This is not the maximum pressure , but is called the maxloadpressure, Pressure needed for the maximum load, or as it is called in the formula sheet of the ETRTO about it the Pr=reference-pressure.

Mister · 07-30-2013, 04:25 AM

I'm gonna get flamed for this but all this business about "rim pressure ratings" is a bit silly. Normally I'm Mr. Cautious, but in this case I would still say rubber (no matter how thick the wall and solid the belts) is going to deform and bend long before a steel or aluminum rim. That is to say, under normal driving conditions, mounting curbs and what not is a different matter. Static pressure of 25% over shouldn't be able to cause damage to metal. Now I will agree that over loading (in terms of weight) your rims is a recipe for disaster. I run the standard ugly white steel rims with E range Maxxis and put them right up to 80PSI cold. No problems to report, but then again I don't put the kind of miles on a trip that some of you do...

**Herk7769** · 07-30-2013, 06:36 AM

No flame.

I am still learning about tires and rims. My understanding so far is that how the wheel's rim angle is formed determines it's ability to retain the tire bead under stress and that determines the load rating (and resultant maximum pressure). What is the Weight Capacity and Air Pressure Ratings on the 15 X 6 Inch Steel Wheel - 6 on 5-1/2 | etrailer.com

Basically, (again my understanding at this point) is that over loading (or pressurizing) a wheel will make it more susceptible to sidewall failure due to the bead rolling out wheel if struck.

I also know that the stems have their own pressure ratings and if you go up a load rating on the tire, the stems must be changed from all rubber to a metal/rubber hybrid or an all steel stem depending on the maximum pressure in the tire. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=208

Mister · 07-31-2013, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herk7769

No flame.

Basically, (again my understanding at this point) is that over loading (or pressurizing) a wheel will make it more susceptible to sidewall failure due to the bead rolling out wheel if struck.

I also know that the stems have their own pressure ratings and if you go up a load rating on the tire, the stems must be changed from all rubber to a metal/rubber hybrid or an all steel stem depending on the maximum pressure in the tire. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=208

Now the bead separating from the rim is a good point, and deformation or impact can be a leading cause of this. So this again is a very good point. But still, under normal driving conditions I don't think this very likely... You hear far more stories about D range blow outs than E range separations.

100% agree on the valve stems. I bought my Maxxis tires from Discount Tire. They aired up two tires before one of the technitions realized they needed heavier duty vavle stems. They stripped the rims and started over.

**Herk7769** · 07-31-2013, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister

You hear far more stories about D range blow outs than E range separations.

Not sure how this applies to wheel over pressure.

I am sure there have been more catastrophic C range failures than any other as they are more likely to be over sped and over loaded.

jadatis · 08-01-2013, 03:13 AM

When I first read about pressure and load-rating for rimms I also thought it was a yoke. But seeing it more often began to think it over. These are the possible explanations I game up with.

High pressure could give to much sideward force at the edge of the rimm wich holds the inner ring of the tire in its place, it mayby could even break loose.
For this the pressurre rating

The rimm is screwed on the axle at a plate that is out of the middle mostly tho the outside of the car.
This could give to much bending of the inner side of the rimm ( something like this [ ) if it is not strong enaug.
For this the loadrating.

Yust what I made of it, I am not a specialist.

In every case the pressure rating shal be for cold pressure and the higher pressure for higher temperature is taken into acount .

This is also for valves and tires. For valves I once asked a valve-importer.

Normal rubber snap in valves ( 400 series) are for 65 to 70 psi cold ( 18dgrC/65dgrF) and to mildest standards (American) about 26 psi higher pressure they are tested for , wich allows temperature rising to boiling point of water ( 200dgrF ?) wich it can incidentically get by the heat of the brakes transported trough the rimms. This is what the valve importer wrote me. for races I once read that the tire inside can get 190 dgr F. Normal warm about 112dgr F /45dgr C.

The high pressure rubber snap in valves from the HP600 series can stand a cold pressure of 6,3bar/90psi? tto 6.8 bar/100psi cold and probably more then 26 psi pressure -rising, did not had the standard given for that , but shal be more to allow the same 200dgrF.

Metal valves I did not ask further for but cold pressure over 145 psi .

farmbone · 08-02-2013, 12:52 PM

Well we made it to Florida without a problem. Decided to run the new load range E tires at 70 lbs pressure. TPMS showed max pressure of 80-82 and temp 102-106. Tires seemed to do well and trailer not to bouncy. I had noticed before that the side wall seemed thin on the Trail Express tires but not on these. Carlisle tires look so much better than theTrail Express junk that came with the trailer. I sticker said that they came from Lionshead, I guess the distributor that sells them to Forest River. Like I said before, I wanted to get Maxxis but we were desperate and had to get what the Discount Tire store had. I will keep you informed on how they do. They are the Radial Trail RH.

**ependydad** · 08-02-2013, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmbone

I sticker said that they came from Lionshead, I guess the distributor that sells them to Forest River.

That's correct. And, if you have to take up a warranty claim on the tires, it's Lionshead is who you deal with. Easy to deal with, though. 90% of my communications with them was via email.

To be honest, I had a harder time figuring out how to cut the DOT and date code off of the tire to send to them... (Until I realized how easy it was with a sharp knife and just shaving the top layer off.)

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