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Old 09-26-2015, 02:11 AM   #51
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I can tell you the majority of people pulling trailers drive faster than 65 mph on the highways here in California even though the speed limit for towing is 55mph. I'm constantly getting passed while I'm doing 70mph by people towing trailers so no wonder there are lots of blowouts on trailers happening. Just my $.02 and vent.
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:24 AM   #52
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Tireman9, I thank you for your detailed answer to my question. I guess I was a lucky one, not like the OP when I had a blowout. I was just looking through my mirror and saw a puff of smoke and also the guy next to me started to blow his horn. I was lucky being I was coming up to an exit when it happened. I pulled over immediately, and was able to nurse my way off the ramp to pull over. I got by without any damage. You could plainly see where the sidewall split and there wasn't any nail or anything that could have caused the problem except that the tire just gave out. That was with OEM tires that were poly cord "Trail Express". If I had to drive any distance at all I'm sure my tire would have looked like the OP'S. It seems we can inform the NTSB on the failures of OEM tires but they still allow the manufacturer to be able to install them as long as they meet the load requirements even with only a 10% load margin when that trailer is loaded. Just about all blowouts on this forum are with the OEM tires not aftermarket. Thanks for your insight and help that you provide us. And yes I do read your blog. I just wounder when the NTSB is going to step in and start making the manufacture install a tire that is suitable for your trailer. By the way your blog is very good....
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:30 AM   #53
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Sorry but am not blaming the owner for punctures, cuts, leaking valves or the like. Certainly not for the design of the suspension of multi-axle TT.

No I do not always claim there is no defect in the tires that fail. FYI I discovered and am responsible for having a recall initiated because of human error made in the manufacturing of some LT tires a number of years ago.

Yes I use the Scientific method when investigating tire failures. As such I consider the physical evidence available and present the most likely contributing reason(s) for the failure. Simply claiming some unidentified defect is not sound Science or sound Engineering practice.

Now manufacturing and design can play a part in the robustness of some tires. If a manufacturer is essentially asked by the RV company to cut the margins to the bare minimum how is it the tire companies fault when confronted with either complying with the customer's request or not selling tires? Yes in a perfect world the tire company would tell the RV company that better quality (i.e. higher price) is needed if the RV company wants its customers to get better results and fewer failures in their tires.

But with the end user almost always shopping on the "best deal" which is really just the lowest cost why should we expect the RV company to loose sales to a competitor who can offer a lower price RV?

RVs are for many the second largest purchase in someones lifetime but too often all they look for is the "Bling" and they do not educate themselves on the underlying quality of the RV they are buying.
Look at what happened to the large US auto manufacturers in the 70's. Their quality was abysmal with some cars rusting out before the loan was paid off. Then along came Honda & Toyota etc with their much better quality. It took a number of years but eventually "Detroit" learned that to stay in business they needed to compete on quality. This battle continues and we see that new car warranties that were once 12 months to 3 years are nor 3 to 5 years on many products. There are ven some car companies that are built around best in class warranty and we can see some with 5 to 10 year warranties.

One has to wonder how it is possible cor car companies to offer 3, 5 or 10 year warranties on their complete 12 volt electrical system but RV companies in reality only deliver 6 month quality on the 12 volt system they install. The excuse of "its just a house rolling down the road so what do you expect" just doesn't wash.

Back to blowouts. If you find melted body cord in the sidewall of your tire there is only one way to end up with that result when observed across multiple sizes, designs and brands. It is physical proof of excess flexing. The flexing can only occur when the tire is not properly inflated. Not saying that RV owners deflate their tires on purpose but the reality is that a majority of RVs are run with one or more tire in overload and many are run at speeds higher than their specifications. If these observed conditions are not the responsibility of the owner who is responsible?
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:45 AM   #54
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Tireman9, I agree with you, but when I was at the factory this very question was asked why FR did not offer an upgraded tire. There answer which I thought was truthful said. and I Quote " if FR offered an upgraded tire it would be saying we are not putting on adequate tires" unquote. That is were the problem lies IMO only. But I have to give the factory credit for not skirting the reason. They do pass to be put on the trailer. I guess it comes down to buyer beware. Thanks
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:54 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by gljurczyk View Post
Tireman9, I thank you for your detailed answer to my question. I guess I was a lucky one, not like the OP when I had a blowout. I was just looking through my mirror and saw a puff of smoke and also the guy next to me started to blow his horn. I was lucky being I was coming up to an exit when it happened. I pulled over immediately, and was able to nurse my way off the ramp to pull over. I got by without any damage. You could plainly see where the sidewall split and there wasn't any nail or anything that could have caused the problem except that the tire just gave out. That was with OEM tires that were poly cord "Trail Express". If I had to drive any distance at all I'm sure my tire would have looked like the OP'S. It seems we can inform the NTSB on the failures of OEM tires but they still allow the manufacturer to be able to install them as long as they meet the load requirements even with only a 10% load margin when that trailer is loaded. Just about all blowouts on this forum are with the OEM tires not aftermarket. Thanks for your insight and help that you provide us. And yes I do read your blog. I just wounder when the NTSB is going to step in and start making the manufacture install a tire that is suitable for your trailer. By the way your blog is very good....
You say there was no nail or anything. Here is an example from one of my investigations.




Not saying that you had same just pointing out that unless someone conducted detailed examination we can't be sure what caused the air loss.

What condition were the Poly cords in the sidewall split. Was a complete examination conducted to confirm no cords were fused? Were lab tests run to measure the remaining strength of the cords? These are steps needed in the Science of Forensic examination to discover the reason for the "split". Just claiming that a defect occurred in dozens or hundreds of spools of Polyester and by random chance all the defects lined up would be like having every Roulette Wheel in a casino hitting the same number at the same time multiple times in an evening.

NTSB isn't the appropriate agency to file a consumer complaint. It is NHTSA and I have covered the process in a number of posts on my blog. Even then all to often those filing complaints don't provide enough information that would allow NHTSA to initiate an investigation. Critical info such as DOT serial is often missing from the complaint. Also NHTSA has budget constraints and since they are a Federal agency there isn't any pressure being placed on Congress to provide funds for mare investigations.

Re a mandatory margin is not a reality given the lobby efforts of RV companies and a few low cost tire importers. The law only requires that tires be able to meet the GAWR and it is up to the RV company to select tires and set the inflation level. So maybe you could do better by pressuring the RV companies to provide better tires or take your business elsewhere.

Glad you enjoy the blog and thanks for the kind words.
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:02 AM   #56
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Tireman9 your post are always very interesting thanks for sharing your knowledge. ...

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Old 09-26-2015, 11:39 AM   #57
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Not either of your examples, they just showed me where the sidewall split in there opinion it was like a slice or just ripped. there was nothing in the treaded part of the tire. I called Loinhead the supplier, they wanted me to send them the tire. Right and hell will freeze over. I just bought 4 new tires and had them put on. Moved up 1 load rating from "C" to "D" paid my money and said thank-you. Put GY Marathons on. Lets hope the sidewall is heavier.... Once again Thanks.
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:57 AM   #58
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The buys of camper/rv should get better educated on what they are buying just like a car. Do your home work. Later RJD
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:20 PM   #59
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On the way to my in-laws tonight, I passed two Jayco's being pulled by two separate pickup trucks (one hybrid, one TT). The pickups both said Hillside Trailer Sales, which Google says is in Minneapolis, MN. The speed limit was 70 mph. I was doing 75 mph. I passed them, but they were going at least 72 mph.

I passed them in Madison, WI, which is 270 miles from Minneapolis. I would bet they'd been going that fast most of the way from Indianapolis, so I suspect at least 500-600 miles at 70+mph.

So I'm wondering if many peoples issues with "lousy China bombs" is really due to the overstress of perfectly good tires during delivery, that then manifests itself as a blow out months later?
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gljurczyk View Post
Not either of your examples, they just showed me where the sidewall split in there opinion it was like a slice or just ripped. there was nothing in the treaded part of the tire. I called Loinhead the supplier, they wanted me to send them the tire. Right and hell will freeze over. I just bought 4 new tires and had them put on. Moved up 1 load rating from "C" to "D" paid my money and said thank-you. Put GY Marathons on. Lets hope the sidewall is heavier.... Once again Thanks.
If the sidewall split was in a relatively circumferential line then it is more likely a run loe flex failure. Kind of hard offering an informed answer when people only use a few words to describe a tire picture. Anyone that looks at the pictures of the various tire autopsies do my blog can see that there is both science and art in doing the proper inspection and analysis of the failed tire.

RE dealers analysis. I have never seen a dealer receive the multi day training needed to do the most basic level of autopsy so I have serious questions about their conclusions.
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