From Hybrid to Murphy Bed

[JotoColorado]

Hello all

Sorry for the length of this post.

Been reading a little this morning as we are 99% sure our next trailer will be a Rockwood 2509S

We are currently in a 2011 Flagstaff Shamrock Hybrid..basically a Rockwood Roo. We are tired of folding beds up and down..and want to extend our camping seasons a tiny bit as well....earlier in Spring/Later in Fall. Anyone that has owned a hybrid or a tent trailer knows what I mean yes?

I have a couple of questions . Real world answers from experienced folks are always better than hypothetical “I wonder if” questions and answers.

How much of a pain is the Murphy bed really? We plan to put our 2-3” memory foam topper on the bed...do you think we have to “un-make” the bed to fold it up during the day? I suspect if that is the case one of the folks in this partnership is going to be upset

Anyone with the new Capital Grill happy with it? Have searched a little and found mixed feelings. I don’t care too much about the sink..our hybrid had no outside kitchen and I put a small table wayyy over on the other side of the camper and utilized dish pans and the outside shower..kept the water out of my grey tank also as that tank is the thorn in my side it seems. All that to say I don’t think I will miss the sink...but wondering if you can heat water in a pot on the Capital Grill easily enough....would be nice not to bring the Coleman and save the space, I’m a bit of a pain in the butt and prefer to cook outside as much as possible..smells and all.

I cannot seem to find the option, if it exists, to get power stabilizer jacks. The jacks on my hybrid are not power but they aren’t the scissor jacks either and fold up tighter than the jacks appear to fold up on the 2509S. I worry about clearance, we don’t go on crazy roads but mostly boondock utilizing rutted and ever-changing forest service roads and have plenty of clearance now, don’t want to lose that.

Underbelly and heat pads on tanks work ok for folks? We don’t always encounter freezing temps now, but that is because we sleep in glorified tents on the end of the bed. We plan to extend our season and want to feel secure in that we won’t freeze up. Thoughts on that would be great.

On a similar subject...the Murphy bed is over the front storage compartment...any draft there? If so is there a solution besides putting a heater in that compartment? Granted it will be better than we have it now..but just thought I’d ask.

The reason we like this model is that it is virtually the same length as our current trailer and we like that as it fits in our driveway and we know we can get to our favorite areas with tight turns in the forest...longer and we would have to put trailer in storage and also may not be able to make some of the hair pin turns we encounter where we frequent. Weight is also almost the same, I may go up 1000# when loaded...as the dry weights are within 1000# of each other.

Thank you in advance for any insight....looking forward to switching to this forum and helping as well as getting help

Jo and Tony

[Mr Towed]

I don't want to nitpick but you said part of the reason for your interest in a new trailer is that you are tired of folding and unfolding beds, and you are looking at a trailer with a bed that needs to be folded up and down. (now, i guess you could leave it down and never fold it back up, but the intention is obviously for it to fold up and down).

We specifically avoided Murphy bed models exactly for the reason that we did not want to fold up and down our bed, in addition to the fact that when we compared the same trailer Murphy bed vs standard bed the Murphy bed seemed to lose a lot of storage in comparison, and only gained a 2 person couch in its place, which did not seem like a good tradeoff to us.

[bedubya]

Since I don't have a Rockwood 2509S, I can't be certain, it will probably be similar to mine. I don't have a topper--I replaced the mattress. But I think you will have plenty of room for the topper and bedding. Worst case, if you have a thick comforter, you might have to not have it over the foot end when you put the bed up.
There can be a little draft from the pass-through. I solved it with a corrugated plastic sheet under the jackknife sofa. Others have used thin plywood.
Sorry, I can't help with your other questions.
We love the extra space the murphy bed provides in a small/lightweight unit. In 15 seconds, or so, the bed is down and you hit the sack. In the morning, another 15 seconds and it's up and out of the way.

[JotoColorado]

Originally Posted by Mr Towed

I don't want to nitpick but you said part of the reason for your interest in a new trailer is that you are tired of folding and unfolding beds, and you are looking at a trailer with a bed that needs to be folded up and down. (now, i guess you could leave it down and never fold it back up, but the intention is obviously for it to fold up and down).

We specifically avoided Murphy bed models exactly for the reason that we did not want to fold up and down our bed, in addition to the fact that when we compared the same trailer Murphy bed vs standard bed the Murphy bed seemed to lose a lot of storage in comparison, and only gained a 2 person couch in its place, which did not seem like a good tradeoff to us.

No worries at all on the nitpick...I asked for it. I have asked myself the same question and come to the conclusion below.
the difference between climbing a step stool to pull down a 100 lb bed end x 2 on a hybrid, securing the canvas and hauling the mattress topper from the dinette to the bed end of choice and lifting a Murphy bed up and down (watching the videos it looks pretty easily done) is significant. And the Murphy bed is indoors so on the days it rains/snows no worries about working outside in the rain..not to mention opening the trailer up again at home to dry the canvas ends after said close up in the rain.

Thank you for your comment

[Chuck_S]

A 23 foot hybrid is a 30 foot camper when open so you're gonna give up a lot of interior space going from a hybrid to a closed trailer. With the Murphy bed down the only place to sit is the dinette or on the bed in a cramped cabin. Nor is bed use convenient with early or late risers. That little curtain in the hybrids isn't much but it's there. With the bed up there's no room for that after-lunch nap. Only sleeping area for adults is the Murphy bed -- hopefully no snorers!

We're campers, not RVers, and are willing to put up with the minor hassles of dropping the bed doors for the ability to sleep outdoors with our own bathroom, galley, etc. Our early 2006 Roo lacks the permanently fixed tentage but is still easy to setup.

But it's nice to have options (and opinions).

-- Chuck

[Rivasiuk]

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

Hello all

Sorry for the length of this post.

Been reading a little this morning as we are 99% sure our next trailer will be a Rockwood 2509S

We are currently in a 2011 Flagstaff Shamrock Hybrid..basically a Rockwood Roo. We are tired of folding beds up and down..and want to extend our camping seasons a tiny bit as well....earlier in Spring/Later in Fall. Anyone that has owned a hybrid or a tent trailer knows what I mean yes?

I have a couple of questions . Real world answers from experienced folks are always better than hypothetical “I wonder if” questions and answers.

How much of a pain is the Murphy bed really? We plan to put our 2-3” memory foam topper on the bed...do you think we have to “un-make” the bed to fold it up during the day? I suspect if that is the case one of the folks in this partnership is going to be upset

Anyone with the new Capital Grill happy with it? Have searched a little and found mixed feelings. I don’t care too much about the sink..our hybrid had no outside kitchen and I put a small table wayyy over on the other side of the camper and utilized dish pans and the outside shower..kept the water out of my grey tank also as that tank is the thorn in my side it seems. All that to say I don’t think I will miss the sink...but wondering if you can heat water in a pot on the Capital Grill easily enough....would be nice not to bring the Coleman and save the space, I’m a bit of a pain in the butt and prefer to cook outside as much as possible..smells and all.

I cannot seem to find the option, if it exists, to get power stabilizer jacks. The jacks on my hybrid are not power but they aren’t the scissor jacks either and fold up tighter than the jacks appear to fold up on the 2509S. I worry about clearance, we don’t go on crazy roads but mostly boondock utilizing rutted and ever-changing forest service roads and have plenty of clearance now, don’t want to lose that.

Underbelly and heat pads on tanks work ok for folks? We don’t always encounter freezing temps now, but that is because we sleep in glorified tents on the end of the bed. We plan to extend our season and want to feel secure in that we won’t freeze up. Thoughts on that would be great.

On a similar subject...the Murphy bed is over the front storage compartment...any draft there? If so is there a solution besides putting a heater in that compartment? Granted it will be better than we have it now..but just thought I’d ask.

The reason we like this model is that it is virtually the same length as our current trailer and we like that as it fits in our driveway and we know we can get to our favorite areas with tight turns in the forest...longer and we would have to put trailer in storage and also may not be able to make some of the hair pin turns we encounter where we frequent. Weight is also almost the same, I may go up 1000# when loaded...as the dry weights are within 1000# of each other.

Thank you in advance for any insight....looking forward to switching to this forum and helping as well as getting help

Jo and Tony

Take a look at the 2506S it has a separate bedroom with outdoor kitchen, spacious front inside kitchen. You can have a U dinette, folding sofa or table and chairs in the slide out. We just got ours last September and used it in Northern Ontario for a week with no heating issues. It comes with a heater fireplace standard now also.

Great for traveling.

[JotoColorado]

Originally Posted by Rivasiuk

Take a look at the 2506S it has a separate bedroom with outdoor kitchen, spacious front inside kitchen. You can have a U dinette, folding sofa or table and chairs in the slide out. We just got ours last September and used it in Northern Ontario for a week with no heating issues. It comes with a heater fireplace standard now also.

Great for traveling.

Would be great if we didn’t have kids and grandkids...2 at a time only..with us...would prefer them to have their own area.

[WTP2]

We just bought a 2017 Flagstaff Microlite with a Murphy bed this past fall. We have only had it out a couple times but have found that putting the bed up is not much of a hassle at all. We do have a 3 inch memory pad on it and it hasn't caused a problem. Just make sure to secure the mattress with the straps before closing. There is a little draft from the pass through compartment but there are some ways to fix that.

[firemedicmark]

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

No worries at all on the nitpick...I asked for it. I have asked myself the same question and come to the conclusion below.
the difference between climbing a step stool to pull down a 100 lb bed end x 2 on a hybrid, securing the canvas and hauling the mattress topper from the dinette to the bed end of choice and lifting a Murphy bed up and down (watching the videos it looks pretty easily done) is significant. And the Murphy bed is indoors so on the days it rains/snows no worries about working outside in the rain..not to mention opening the trailer up again at home to dry the canvas ends after said close up in the rain.

We specifically looked for a Murphy bed model.

1. Yes you can leave the bed made when folding it up if you take your pillows off, at least on ours.
2. We have a mattress pad and it is not an issue either.

3. We really enjoy the extra interior space and it literally takes only 1 minute to fold the bed down.

4. Have not experienced any draft issues with the bed being over the pass through storage.


Hope this helps in your decision.

[Jay2504]

I have a 2504s with a Murphy bed. Never really had a problem with cold air drafts, I put a taller headboard on, which might have helped. I believe the new ones have a taller headboard, but not 100% sure. We just toss the pillows on a bunk and fold it up, not bothering with the straps. Can’t help with the other questions. Jay

[RACarvalho]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

A 23 foot hybrid is a 30 foot camper when open so you're gonna give up a lot of interior space going from a hybrid to a closed trailer.
-- Chuck

You can bet on that!
We moved from a Roo 23IKSS, which had opposite slides, to 29ft (34 hitch to bumper) camper and we feel that the 29 is more cramped than the Roo.
For us is not a big deal (yet?) but you feel it.

[dwolff]

We upgraded for the same reason. Murphy bed is great, the mattress is heated altho we have never had to use it, even on below freezing nights. We didn't even need to add to the mattress for comfort, altho there is plenty of space to leave a topper on it. We even left our pillows on it but they slid down, not good. The storage space below the bed isn't a problem unless you don't close the storage doors, then it's drafty. We don't use the capital grill for direct cooking of food, no way you could ever clean it well enough to keep the critters out of the outdoor kitchen. All in all you won't regret it, great trailer👍

[BaltimoreMark]

We have a Surveyor 200mble with a Murphy bed and love it. We have a topper that stays on while folded up, along with the sheets and light blanket. In cooler weather, we put the comforter and pillows in the Murphy bed compartment. We have do draft issues with the basement below the bed. It's quick and easy to get up and down. It turns into a nice couch when up. We love it.

[Sweedish15]

We currently have/use a micro lite 23lb with a Murphy bed and are looking to buy a 2509s.

We love the Murphy bed, the couch is nice to have during the day and the bed folds down, literally in a few seconds. We use a mattress topper, leave our pillows and bedding all made up on the bed so when it folds down it’s ready for use. It stows away as quickly as it comes down.

Weight and length are an issue for us around the 7000lb and 30ft mark, so to stay in that range and have a couch and u dinette, the 2509s is the ticket.

[travelchief60]

We liked the space provided by the Murphy bed. No problem closing it with a thick mattress pad and one blanket. We removed heavier blankets during colder weather and shoved the pillows behind the bed (into the pass-through) before raising the bed. We used some homemade pillow shams (size of pool noodles) along the bottom of the sofa to reduce drafts. Last summer we volunteered at a Colorado state park for three months. Must admit that three months of putting the bed up and down did get a bit old. Plus, when my DW was ready to go to bed two hours before me we put the bed down and I was relegated to the dinette to read or watch TV or she napped in the booth while I stayed on the sofa.

[Tigger1]

We had a hybrid before our current 2104s with the Murphy bed, see Signature.

We don’t miss the hybrid setup having to fold down the ends, sometimes in the rain.

We feel the Murphy bed is a good idea and very functional. Sofa during the day, bed at night. It makes the best use of available living space. No problem lowering/raising it at all since it has struts on each side making it easy to do.

No drafts coming from the front under storage area. We have a 2” foam topper plus we strap our pillows, including my wedge pillow that I like, onto the bed before raising it without any issues.

The unit is quieter than the hybrid, stays warmer, wind is not as much an issue, and we don’t have to worry about tent-end condensation.

[Tigger1]

Originally Posted by travelchief60

We liked the space provided by the Murphy bed. No problem closing it with a thick mattress pad and one blanket. We removed heavier blankets during colder weather and shoved the pillows behind the bed (into the pass-through) before raising the bed. We used some homemade pillow shams (size of pool noodles) along the bottom of the sofa to reduce drafts. Last summer we volunteered at a Colorado state park for three months. Must admit that three months of putting the bed up and down did get a bit old. Plus, when my DW was ready to go to bed two hours before me we put the bed down and I was relegated to the dinette to read or watch TV or she napped in the booth while I stayed on the sofa.

That’s a good point about when one person wants to go to bed before the other and one is left with the dinette to recline on. This was one of the main reasons we replaced our dinette with love seat recliners. It’s not for everybody but it has worked well for us. See link.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...cs-153804.html

[jimmoore13]

I'll only touch on a couple of your points:

1. Get a lift kit and don't worry about the stab jacks. A lo-rider camper puts everything in harm's way...least of all the jacks. If you have the Dexter/Alco Axles, a double axle lift kit is about $175 to $200 plus installation - from Forest River. Negotiate it into the deal.
2. Grills provided with campers - in general - are, shall we say, unimpressive. Buy a Weber Q-series and folding stand. Convert it to low pressure by replacing the regulator with a quick connect kit. (You can do much better on price...this is just an illustration.)
3. The outdoor "sink" thing sounds good. You could go whole hog by adding a hanger rail and install a "real sink with a drain into a bucket...as with most popups...into one of those rail hanger utility tables that come with most campers. Easy and convenient.
4. If you like to cook outdoors, most grills don't make heat the same way that stoves do. Once again, a portable stove that connects to the low-pressure gas from your rig's LP tanks will do the job. Yes, more to carry, but it's the right tool for the job. Of course, your Coleman stove will work, too. Either way, the gas grill won't be effective for things like boiling water.
5. Two words on the Murphy Bed dilemma: Sheet Suspenders. These are AWESOME at holding bedding in place. Think about it. Others have already indicated that a mattress topper will fit when the bed is folded. Sheet suspenders will keep the whole mess in place when you fold the bed. We use them on our PUP beds for much the same reason. Everything comes apart, and it's harder than hell to make the bed.

As for the folding of the Murphy bed and the folding of the tent ends on a Hybrid, apples and oranges! Unless you pee the bed, the Murphy bed will never have to be put away wet after a rain storm on tear-down day. Bears won't be joining you in the Murphy bed....thru the canvas. The hard side is WARM compared to a glorified "tent." And...wait for it...most Hybrids are dark as a dungeon, because ALL the cabinets must go on just two side walls. Meanwhile, in a true hard side, there's more room for windows. Lastly, the person on the "outside" of the Hybrid bed must crawl over the other person to go pee in the night...or both must get up. A Murphy bed is a true walk-around bed. Like I said. Apples and oranges....or tenting vs. sleeping in a "real" bed.

Have fun with your new rig.

[joeuncool]

As for power stabilizers, I don't think FR offers these as an option on smaller lower end campers. I do see them out there on the internet. Kind of pricey to me but if necessary...

They look like a 2 day project for the average handyman. 1 day to install the stabs, another to wire. At least for me, given extra time for all the unforseens which I always seem to run into.

I'm sure you could get a local RV shop/dealer to do it but I bet the total will run up over $1000 when labor is added.

I don't have power stabs but I do carry my battery drill, socket adapter and proper size socket. Brrrrrrppppp! Takes 2-3 seconds to lower each one. Just be gentle and don't over torque them in either direction. You still have to get down to the level of the stabilizers to do this, and if you have physical issues that may prevent this then power stabs might be the only way to go and worth the money.

[67L48]

Welcome. I'm also in Colorado ... in the Longmont-Erie area. I camped in tents, popup, and camped 2018 in the 2504S (sister to your preferred 2509S). I liked the 2504S because, while still having ample room in the bunk widths, it sacrifices some of the 09S's bunk width for a larger bathroom with a linen closet. I love the 04S pantry, prefer the overhead cabinetry over the sink, and I don't value outdoor kitchens. You didn't ask, but that's how I landed on an 04S.

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

[...] We are tired of folding beds up and down..and want to extend our camping seasons a tiny bit as well....earlier in Spring/Later in Fall. Anyone that has owned a hybrid or a tent trailer knows what I mean yes?[...]

It's even worse with a popup! I love the convenience of a hard-sided trailer. However, the Murphy Bed may irritate you if you don't like putting beds up and down. It absolutely pales in comparison to popup setup/tear-down. However, I don't know much about Hybrids to compare the use models.

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

[...]How much of a pain is the Murphy bed really? [...]

Super easy, barely an inconvenience. If you haven't done so already, find a dealer that has one of these Flagstaff/Rockwood Murphy Bed models in stock. Doesn't have to be the 09S. Any will do. It will allow you see how it works. You can get a sense for how easy it is to life and lower. Youtube has good videos on this, too.

It also doesn't block the door. So, you don't have to put it back up. We generally do, because of the couch use.

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

[...] We plan to put our 2-3” memory foam topper on the bed...do you think we have to “un-make” the bed to fold it up during the day? I suspect if that is the case one of the folks in this partnership is going to be upset [...]

There are lots and lots of threads here about mattresses and memory foam. I recommend you search and read. Generally speaking, it appears that up to 4" works pretty good. The bed folds up fine without removing the foam.

I don't know what you mean by "un-make" the bed. The bed folds up fine with or without memory foam. It also has easy-to-use straps that keep other bedding in place pretty good. It takes about 15 seconds to put the bed up. Or, you can leave it down.

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

[...] would be nice not to bring the Coleman and save the space, I’m a bit of a pain in the butt and prefer to cook outside as much as possible..smells and all. [...]

I cannot comment on the built-in outdoor kitchen. I will say that it's easy to connect other grills like Camp Chef stoves to the propane quick connect fittings. This does three things for me: I get a much more powerful stove (30K BTU per burner), it allows me to get away from the trailer (I don't like greasy or aromatic foods being cooked right on top of my trailer), and it serves as a small table when not in use (the sides fold over).

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

[...] I cannot seem to find the option, if it exists, to get power stabilizer jacks. [...]

Not sure that that's an option. Power drill and a $5 socket off Amazon:

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

[...] The jacks on my hybrid are not power but they aren’t the scissor jacks either and fold up tighter than the jacks appear to fold up on the 2509S. I worry about clearance, we don’t go on crazy roads but mostly boondock utilizing rutted and ever-changing forest service roads and have plenty of clearance now, don’t want to lose that. [...]

I haven't read any stories about people bumping their stabilizers on anything. I think there are other things lower, like maybe the black/grey water exit.

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

[...] Underbelly and heat pads on tanks work ok for folks? We don’t always encounter freezing temps now, but that is because we sleep in glorified tents on the end of the bed. We plan to extend our season and want to feel secure in that we won’t freeze up. Thoughts on that would be great.[...]

I didn't get them because I don't sleep in sub-freezing conditions. If it's cold enough for pipes to freeze up, I'm not camping. You need lows in the 20s for a solid chunk of the night before pipes freeze and crack. If it's that cold, my family isn't having much fun. If you want to camp in November, you should get that option. Otherwise, I don't see much utility in it.

Originally Posted by JotoColorado

[...] On a similar subject...the Murphy bed is over the front storage compartment...any draft there? If so is there a solution besides putting a heater in that compartment? Granted it will be better than we have it now..but just thought I’d ask. [...]

I've felt a draft there once, but nothing I'd complain about. Another person here recently posted where he had used some XPS insulation (like Owens Corning Foamular) on the ceiling of that storage compartment. I'd do that if it became a problem.

Good luck and let us know what else is on your mind.