Heavy Tongue Weight

[lamokadave]

Experienced camper and trailer puller, but new to the TT world.
Recently purchased a Geopro 19fsb. Optioned with solar on the roof with twin interstate 6v batts, lifted suspension, and dual propane. We installed a12v tv on a swing arm. We've loaded it as we would travel with the basic necessities for cooking, living, ( not extravagant at all) except for cold foods in the rear fridge.
We have several totes under the front pass through with things like extra water hose, electrical extension with adaptors, small gas grill, 2 small folding tables and bag chairs. Leave it to say, we've still got spacefor more stuff in there.
We have a case of water in the rear bath behind the axle plus 2 totes in the trailer centered over the axle +/- a couple of ft. No water in tanks except the hot water tank.
I built the device to weigh the tongue using a bathroom scale. Tested it for accuracy and weighed the TT tongue.
Tongue weight is over 700#.
We purchased this TT because it was under 4000 gvw and had an advertised tongue weight in the low 300 dry. We've really tried to use care with what we've loaded and placed in the trailer.
I'd like to get that tongue below 550. I though about adding water to the rear black tank to counter balance, but that seems like the wrong way to go.
I'm wondering if the axle is set too fast back.

[clarkbre]

Your dry hitch weight is listed as 360 pounds. The reality of that could be a bit more or a bit less.

Adding (2) 20 lbs tanks of propane is 74 lbs
Adding (2) 6 volt batteries is another 124 lbs

Right off the bat you're adding about 200 lbs worth of energy sources to the front 5 feet of the trailer. That will drive the tongue weight up and the TV will likely see it as about 550.

Also, not sure where it's mounted but if the hot water heater is full and under the bed in the front, that's an additional 48 lbs towards the front.

Throw a few things in that front compartment and 700 lbs doesn't seem all that far off.

What is your tow vehicle?
What tongue weight is it rated for?
What WDH are you using?
Is it set up properly?

[lamokadave]

Tow vehicle is a Toyota Tacoma and is rated for 6400#. Where it becomes tow challenged is in payload topping out at 1100#. Hitch rating is 650#.
We were told by the dealer that dry weight included 1 loaded gas tank. Whether that's true or not who knows?
Knowing that I have a tight weight budget, I am using the Andersen WD hitch.
As far as setup, what I know now is truck sits level and trailer might be a touch nose hose but nothing obvious looking at it.
Im hitting a CAT scale today to see how the weight is distributed and get a trailer axle weight.
I was really hoping the Tacoma would be able to handle this trailer but now I'm seriously thinking replacing it with an f-150

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by lamokadave

....
Im hitting a CAT scale today to see how the weight is distributed and get a trailer axle weight....

Use this SPREADSHEET and plug in all your real #'s and capacities at the CAT Scale. It will tell you what the tongue weight is, actual trailer weight, actual truck weight and how effective your WDH is really doing.

I wouldn't throw out the Tacoma until you play with the set up a bit. It should be able to tow it.

[bikendan]

One thing I've noticed about the bigger Geo/E Pro trailers is that, not only are they single axle but it's placed way back on the trailer.

So it looks like it should be tongue heavy when loaded.

[lamokadave]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

Use this SPREADSHEET and plug in all your real #'s and capacities at the CAT Scale. It will tell you what the tongue weight is, actual trailer weight, actual truck weight and how effective your WDH is really doing.

I wouldn't throw out the Tacoma until you play with the set up a bit. It should be able to tow it.

Did not find your spreadsheet. I think it's hopeless anyway. Stopped at a CAT scale and found the following.
Front axle is under max by 135#
Rear axle is under by 170#
Truck however was over by 10#
Trailer axle was under by 100#
I still don't have the bike rack with 2 bikes mounted nor the truck roof rack with 2 kayaks in top. Those add another 200 min to the truck 60 of it via the tongue.
I'm also wondering if the trailer is overloaded.
Do I need to add the tongue weight to the axle weight and keep that below TT gvwr or do I just need to stay below axle WR?
I'm hoping the tongue weight is just a penalty to the trucks GVWR and not the trailer

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by lamokadave

I'm also wondering if the trailer is overloaded.
Do I need to add the tongue weight to the axle weight and keep that below TT gvwr or do I just need to stay below axle WR?
I'm hoping the tongue weight is just a penalty to the trucks GVWR and not the trailer

A trailer’s weight is tongue weight + axle weight.

The sum of those 2 must be less than the trailer’s GVWR.

With everything you described carrying and the CCC of 800 lbs, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were over.

[Grapehound]

My first trailer was a Forest River Wildwood (no slides) with a dry weight of 5400#. My little 1/2 ton Ford short bed pickup was rated to tow 6,800# with a little 4.6 litre V-8.

What I didn't realize is that the brakes, suspension, alternator, etc. are less on a "smaller" tow vehicle. I think we all try to slide with a smaller tow vehicle at the beginning and end up with a trailer that stresses our maximum limits...
and our safety.

Now I tow my "half-ton towable" (not!) Rockwood Signature 8282 (dry weight 7,700#) with a 1 ton RAM dually Megacab Cummins 6.7 L. turbo diesel. I have a lot more truck than I need so I am always in control of my trailer. In fact, my truck weighs more than my trailer's dry weight!

This is the most common mistake of the new RV-er, to try to match as much trailer as possible to a modest tow vehicle. Always buy more tow vehicle than you need and you'll be safer with brakes, suspension, alternator, etc.

[MillMitch]

Originally Posted by lamokadave

Did not find your spreadsheet. I think it's hopeless anyway. Stopped at a CAT scale and found the following.
Front axle is under max by 135#
Rear axle is under by 170#
Truck however was over by 10#
Trailer axle was under by 100#
I still don't have the bike rack with 2 bikes mounted nor the truck roof rack with 2 kayaks in top. Those add another 200 min to the truck 60 of it via the tongue.
I'm also wondering if the trailer is overloaded.
Do I need to add the tongue weight to the axle weight and keep that below TT gvwr or do I just need to stay below axle WR?
I'm hoping the tongue weight is just a penalty to the trucks GVWR and not the trailer

Question on your CAT scale. I am assuming the numbers above are with the trailer hooked up and WDH active. If the front and rear axles are under max, how can the truck be over by 10#? My tow vehicle lists GVW at 7100#, front at 3200# and rear at 3900#. Do the max axle weights not always equal the GVW? Sorry, I'm new at this, so I'm trying to understand. I'm towing a heavy tonque as well, but my CAT trip showed both axles, GVW, and GCVW all within spec. I'm pretty flabbergasted the trailer axle is within 100#.

[lamokadave]

On the Tacoma at least, the sum of the axles does exceed the GVWR. I assumed that was simply because there is always the possibility when using a pickup to haul things you can easily change the front to rear wgt ratios, but they don't want the overall truck to exceed some value. Also suggests to me that the limiting factor is not axles, but something common to both axles like brakes, transmission, maybe cooling

[Micksmydad]

Originally Posted by Grapehound

My first trailer was a Forest River Wildwood (no slides) with a dry weight of 5400#. My little 1/2 ton Ford short bed pickup was rated to tow 6,800# with a little 4.6 litre V-8.

What I didn't realize is that the brakes, suspension, alternator, etc. are less on a "smaller" tow vehicle. I think we all try to slide with a smaller tow vehicle at the beginning and end up with a trailer that stresses our maximum limits...
and our safety.

Now I tow my "half-ton towable" (not!) Rockwood Signature 8282 (dry weight 7,700#) with a 1 ton RAM dually Megacab Cummins 6.7 L. turbo diesel. I have a lot more truck than I need so I am always in control of my trailer. In fact, my truck weighs more than my trailer's dry weight!

This is the most common mistake of the new RV-er, to try to match as much trailer as possible to a modest tow vehicle. Always buy more tow vehicle than you need and you'll be safer with brakes, suspension, alternator, etc.

Yes this is very true and for those of you who are new to RVing and have many things to learn, one of the best places to get info is on forums such as this one. DO NOT rely on a dealer sales person who may be new to his job and has making a sale his first priority. I’ve seen to many over sized travel trailers being pulled.

[Grapehound]

Originally Posted by Micksmydad

Yes this is very true and for those of you who are new to RVing and have many things to learn, one of the best places to get info is on forums such as this one. DO NOT rely on a dealer sales person who may be new to his job and has making a sale his first priority. I’ve seen to many over sized travel trailers being pulled.

It's funny you mention dealers. I went to my local Dodge dealer and told him I wanted a RAM 3500 Megacab dually. I need the extra interior space for my dogs. The salesman took me over and showed me a regular cab RAM 1500. He said it had the "tow package." I left the local dealership and never went back, instead buying through a dealer who searched for everything I wanted and found me the exact truck I was looking for. Dealers always want to sell you what's on their lot, instead of what you actually need or want. Whether you are buying a trailer or a tow vehicle, the motto is Caveat Emptor, or "Let the buyer beware!" If you don't set any minimum requirements, then the dealer certainly won't impose any for your benefit.