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07-19-2014, 01:06 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 9
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Information lacking
I've had a couple of questions about my new Rockwood trailer that I've posted here and in other places, and I have to admit I'm really disappointed on the lack of obvious resources to help. However, this Forum is a life saver because I'm lost otherwise.
But here is my beef:
First, there is a lot of documentation that came with the Trailer, primarily about individual applicances, hardware, etc. Some of it installation manuals. But the general manual that came with the trailer is very generic. It has some information that helps, but it doesn't apply to any particular trailer model. Therefor, you can't actually get any specific information about how things work or where they are When you purchase a $10 item, there is specific information about that model. The manual may cover multiple model numbers, but it usually spells the differences out. So when you purchase a trailer for $30K, you would expect a pretty specific and detailed manual. I purchased a Jayco popup in 2000 that had a very good, manual that was specific and wasn't a single generic manual for all popups.
Secondly, I would expect the dealer to be helpful. When I had the walk through, it was very fast from a "make ready" person that probably doesn't camp. So he didn't go into much detail about how to do certain things. He might have hit on how everything works, but you can't remember it later. So when I emailed the salesman a question about the usages of a unlabeled mystery switch, he at first said he would get back and then when he looked at another trailer and couldn't figure it out, he just passed me off. Forget getting good answers related to towing setup etc...
Don't even get me started on the "Starter Pack" the dealer included to welcome you. It included a really, really cheap sewage hose that reached < 10 ft and didn't make it to the hookup on my first campout. Why even bother. At least if it wasn't included I would have known to purchase one before the trip rather than make a late night run to a Wal-Mart to get a hose. For about $15, it was 10 times better.
Thirdly, you can always call Forest River. I did and found its a good place to ask a few questions, but they are mostly not very helpful either and for questions about using the trailer, they push you toward the dealer.
So thank you for participating in the forum......
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07-19-2014, 01:54 AM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 33,607
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one, things have changed since 2000.
most RV manufacturers only provide a generic owner's manual anymore.
two, it's up to the buyer to insist on a good PDI. too many buyers get intimidated and don't say anything and drive off with very little knowledge. most dealers simply want you off the lot, once they have your money.
i did a lot of research about this and when we bought ours, i insisted on a thorough PDI. ours was over 2 hours.
three, i agree that FR could provide better customer service phone support.
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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07-19-2014, 02:23 AM
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#3
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 9
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bikendan, I agree things have changed since 2000, but it makes no sense that something you pay so much for has a fairly generic manual.
Frankly, I don't have that many questions, just a couple of items that he may have covered during the walk through, but I didn't retain. I'm not new too this, so wasn't intimidated. I should have written everything down, but when handed the big packet of info, I made the assumption the user manual would be more thorough and that somewhere it was documented.
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07-19-2014, 04:54 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 499
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That being true, it's not just rv industry. I have a jeep patriot as a work vehicle. The instructions on how to change a tire are on a DVD. My jeep doesnt have a DVD player. How does that help someone on the side of the road?
__________________
2006 Roo 23B hybrid
2006 Ford F150 4.6L
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07-19-2014, 05:32 AM
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#5
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 28
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I feel your pain. Purchased a 2015 Coachmen Chaparral. Have spent countless time on the phone for the last month---Coachmen, Forest River, Lippert, Jensen, etc. Manuals are a joke--going back to dealership today for a new kitchen faucet(spews water everywhere) and a leaking shower door. So upsetting when something brand new has these problems but I know it's common in the rv industry.
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07-19-2014, 08:11 AM
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#6
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AKA: 'tiredTeacher
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 1,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingTexan
Frankly, I don't have that many questions, just a couple of items that he may have covered during the walk through, but I didn't retain.
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As a former mechanic, please allow me to offer a suggestion. Make friends with your dealer's service manager, parts folks and techs. Just hang out and chat at the parts desk. Drop by first thing in the a.m. with a bag of breakfast biscuits for the break room, stuff like that. Let them get to know you as a reasonable person who, on occasion, might need some advice. Be friendly and sincere. You all share a common interest, albeit from different perspectives.
Forget the sales folks and start cultivating the support people. A friendly visit and a bucket of chicken for the lunch room will work wonders.
__________________
Wright and Penny
(with Fitz and Lizzie, the camping kitties)
Richmond, Va.
2010 Tundra 4X4 5.7L V8
2014 Rockwood 2604WS
Life is a cruel teacher. She gives the test first; the lesson then follows.
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07-19-2014, 10:05 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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I don't have a Rockwood, but I totally agree with the original post. The documentation is a joke. I tried to find two simple things. 1. What are the recommended jacking points to change a flat tire? 2. What is the manual process to bring in my slide lacking power? Neither is covered in the manual using MY trailer. That is just ridiculous.
Awellis3,
I totally get the playing nice to the service personnel, but you have to be kidding. The manufacturer and brands should have a responsibility to the customers to provide some level of info on the thousands of dollar purchase they made. Pointing everyone to dealers and this forum (while great) is not an answer for CUSTOMER SERVICE. I also don't need to provide lunch for the service personnel unless I am asking for a serious favor. In that case, I would have no problem with it.
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07-19-2014, 10:44 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxmutt
I don't have a Rockwood, but I totally agree with the original post. The documentation is a joke. I tried to find two simple things. 1. What are the recommended jacking points to change a flat tire? 2. What is the manual process to bring in my slide lacking power? Neither is covered in the manual using MY trailer. That is just ridiculous.
Awellis3,
I totally get the playing nice to the service personnel, but you have to be kidding. The manufacturer and brands should have a responsibility to the customers to provide some level of info on the thousands of dollar purchase they made. Pointing everyone to dealers and this forum (while great) is not an answer for CUSTOMER SERVICE. I also don't need to provide lunch for the service personnel unless I am asking for a serious favor. In that case, I would have no problem with it.
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X2. Have we really been reduced to buying bagels for the service department to get what people use to receive in the before time. I say write a letter to the owner, and politely explain with dates, contact responses how they have handled your situation.
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07-19-2014, 11:13 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 10,446
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It would be nice to have a One-Stop shop for RVing knowledge but I can't help but think of RV life before the Internet.
I was lucky because I took my lead from a co-worker that had a RV. She pointed me in the right direction but like a new parent I knew I had new responsibilities along with dealing with the unknown. Hindsight is 20/20 but back then I had no idea about what I didn't know. By asking questions, lot of questions, and doing a lot of reading here and on other websites I gained some knowledge and experience.
I wasn't impressed with the over all quality of the starter pack either I have read where some dealers don't give one at all. Before my first trip I went to Wal-Mart and upgraded the fresh water & sewer hoses. While checking out the RV section I could see the difference with the sewer hose and I took my co-worker suggestion to get a new fresh water hose too.
__________________
Great choice for "Living within my means" and camping for one...
Formerly owned 2011 Salem Cruise Lite 20RBXL & 2011 Toyota Tundra Dbl Cab
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07-19-2014, 11:23 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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I think you straw manned that a bit far.
A useful manual for the trailers we purchase, yes.
A knowledgeable and helpful dealer staff, yes.
A good responsive manufacturer's customer service, yes.
An all encompassing knowledge base for RV'ing, no one asked for that.
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07-19-2014, 11:45 PM
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#11
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 10,446
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madmaxmutt - can you explain what your mean with the first line?
__________________
Great choice for "Living within my means" and camping for one...
Formerly owned 2011 Salem Cruise Lite 20RBXL & 2011 Toyota Tundra Dbl Cab
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07-19-2014, 11:52 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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The last sentence summed it up. No one made an argument for a what you stretched in asking for. The result minimized/diluted or diverted attention from what the original author was stating. That is a straw man argument.
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07-20-2014, 05:54 PM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 75
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On our walk thru inspection for our 2109S the service person said our water heater did not have an electric option (it did) and that the sewer hose would not fit in the bumper (it does).
Other than that he covered things pretty well.
__________________
2015 Rockwood MiniLite 2109S
2018 Ford F150, 3.5L ecoboost
Blue Ox SwayPro hitch
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07-20-2014, 07:51 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 713
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I don't expect manuals for much of anything anymore, maybe a pdf file on the internet but I don't see how FR could do that for all the rv's & models that they make. The documentation for AC, water heater etc. is already there so I am not sure what else they should include. A wiring diagram might be helpful for some but dangerous for others. FR is not going to be telling us to flush out the black water tank 1st & the gray 2d. Nor are they going to be providing those great explanations the Herk gives. I still want to do his AC insulation project. Or the GEO method, not something for FR to do either, but it sure is a great tip.
The best answer is a good explanation when you buy. I would like FR to include this forum as a recommendation for all buyers. There is a wealth of experience & information here.
__________________
2021 Rockwood Mini Lite 2109S
2010 Toyota Tundra 4WD
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07-20-2014, 11:23 PM
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#15
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 9
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I disagree. While they don't need to include details in great depth on water header and AC if those are included in the packet, general information that matches the actual trailer would be nice. While I agree there are multiple floor plans and each can have some different options, it is not all that different that an automobile. A floor plan is similar to a model and the options can be noted in the manual. Just like an auto, dealer installed options of course wouldn't be handled in the manual.
But there is no reason for example that the manual doesn't include info on the control panel and its switches including the unmarked one that is installed by the factory in my case.
People are giving way too much slack to the trailer manufacturers as if it is that difficult to create a decent manual on an item that costs $30K.
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07-20-2014, 11:35 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Santa Fe, Tx
Posts: 243
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Learned a long time ago, get a 4" thick binder,put dividers in it for all manuals that you can get, find or copy. Dividers for everything from fans to door locks. In each section have 3or4 notebook pages to refrence things that you picked up here or specific threads that pertain to something important(keep adding to it). Beats the crap out of the generic that you got when you bought your rig.. PS keep the note book with you whenever you travel.
__________________
2012 F250 6.2 gasser 373 rear
2013 Rockwood 2104S Mini Lite
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07-21-2014, 09:07 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingTexan
But there is no reason for example that the manual doesn't include info on the control panel and its switches including the unmarked one that is installed by the factory in my case.
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Think I have to agree with you on this point. Maybe I was just lucky with my dealer & the time spent explaining things. I am sure that I got my $$ worth from Rockwood. The dealer's support personnel have changed but still helpful.
__________________
2021 Rockwood Mini Lite 2109S
2010 Toyota Tundra 4WD
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07-21-2014, 09:47 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Buzzard
Learned a long time ago, get a 4" thick binder,put dividers in it for all manuals that you can get, find or copy. .
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This is a great tip, and one that I learned in the military. I am pretty sure it really doesn't change the idea of minimal information/documentation and support to begin with. Not everyone wants to build a book. New owners/campers could be easily turned off by things like this. They might just want the answers available to them in 2014. I can pull up ingredients in most restaurant menu items or the parts list on my twenty year old table saw or most technical specs on my truck using my phone but I cannot lookup the specs/parts/jacking points/etc . . . for my ^$ trailer on the manufacturer's site.
I just say they could and should do better. We have come to a sad state where we accept (and it sounds like many of you expect) mediocrity.
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07-24-2014, 03:54 PM
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#19
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AKA: 'tiredTeacher
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 1,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxmutt
I also don't need to provide lunch for the service personnel unless I am asking for a serious favor. In that case, I would have no problem with it.
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You bring the donuts when you don't have a problem. If you didn't see that right off, my advice won't work for you.
__________________
Wright and Penny
(with Fitz and Lizzie, the camping kitties)
Richmond, Va.
2010 Tundra 4X4 5.7L V8
2014 Rockwood 2604WS
Life is a cruel teacher. She gives the test first; the lesson then follows.
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07-24-2014, 04:28 PM
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#20
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5
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I am a parts supplier to the rv industry. I am also an owner of a 2104s and even knowing a great deal about the industry, my wife and I spent days writing out about 55 to 60 questions for the dealer before we purchased. Also the web provided me, and youtube a great deal of info once we decided on the 2104s. The manufacturers are in a dollar race and must stay price sensitive, 30 dollars per unit for a bigger manual, why not another 90 for a service tech complete operational 2 hour walk thur, and another 75 for 1 year phone tech support, and another 110 for interactive web assistance. Just saying that up front homework, prior to purchase, isa far better choice then asking the manufacturer to be the first to raise prices. Side note, of all the manufacturers out there forest river is at the top of the food chain. Good luck and have a super day.
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