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10-26-2016, 10:33 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
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Insulted by Trade Offer - Live and Learn
Looking to upgrade our fifth wheel. Found a model we would like at a great price. We were insulted at the amount they offered us on our trade (guess they are making up for the great price on the new unit). Live and learn. With the depreciation of the units so dramatic, we plan (hope) to keep our next unit at least ten years. Do we need to only be looking at "four season" models as the salespeople claim they are built to a higher standard? Or is this just a sales pitch to sell a higher priced unit? Any suggestions?
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[SIGPIC]
Jimmy, Frances and Darcy the goldendoodle
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10-26-2016, 10:45 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 2,024
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My only comment is, RV's have a heavy depreciation curve and because a dealer has to make a profit to stay in business, a low asking price on a new unit usually means a low trade in offer.
I'd suggest selling it outright on a venue like CraigsList.
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10-26-2016, 11:03 AM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip
My only comment is, RV's have a heavy depreciation curve and because a dealer has to make a profit to stay in business, a low asking price on a new unit usually means a low trade in offer.
I'd suggest selling it outright on a venue like CraigsList.
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X2. I sold my old tt on Craigslist for $3000 more than trade value. Was able to pay off lien with buyers money and use the rest as a downpayment. My previous tt was 3 yrs old and in excellent condition and I got about $3500 less than I paid out the door for it.
As for 4 season, you only need that if you are planning to camp in colder weather. I have camped in 32 degrees and been fine without a 4 season package.
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2014 Crew Cab Chevy Silverado 3500 4wd Duramax/Allison
2014 Sabre 34REQS-6
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10-26-2016, 11:15 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oshawa, ON
Posts: 978
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You need to remember that a trade is only one part of the overall deal. It doesn't matter what the breakdown looks like. What is the final price- and is it acceptable.
With trades you need to factor in the tax savings as you're not paying sales tax on the trade-in value.
it's shell game.....move the numbers around all you want, but, focus on the final price.
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Dave, Southern,ON
2017 GMC SLT HD All Terrain Crew Cab (6' 6" Box) 2012 Roo 23SS
E2 Trunnion WDH (1,000 lb / 10,000 lb)
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10-26-2016, 11:23 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Okeechobee, FL
Posts: 175
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Trade
Agree with Dave - calculate the tax saving on the price difference to be sure if you sell privately, you add that number.
Also agree on his poison. Focus on the difference you want to pay. I don't care what they give me for trade or the new model - just what I exited to pay out of pocket. I have done this 10 times in 13 years.
Once the price matches what I tell them I have on the note in my pocket, I still push for antenna, hitch, or some type of throw-in.
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Bob & Sue Rowan
Okeechobee, FL
2012 Coachmen Mirada 29DS (SOLD)
2015 Keystone Bullet Travel Trailer
2016 F-150 Lariat with Auto Trailer Backup
Dog = Morki (Yorkie-Maltese) - Zoe
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10-26-2016, 11:26 AM
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#6
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
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I get that. As I said, Live and Learn. My main question was when deciding on a new unit we want one that will "last" for many years. Do we need to be looking at "four season" models or heavier weight units or will the lighter weight units hold up just as well long term? I also understand that how you maintain and care for units is very important.
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[SIGPIC]
Jimmy, Frances and Darcy the goldendoodle
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10-26-2016, 11:44 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 447
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I don't think they intended to insult you and I don't think any insult was given.
I would consider it to be a reality check. Either you learn about these things when you do your research or you learn the hard way.
This should begin to inform you that those buyers who know how to evaluate a used unit, do most of their own repair work and buy used...have some savvy knowledge of the realities of the rv life.
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10-26-2016, 12:02 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everidge
I get that. As I said, Live and Learn. My main question was when deciding on a new unit we want one that will "last" for many years. Do we need to be looking at "four season" models or heavier weight units or will the lighter weight units hold up just as well long term? I also understand that how you maintain and care for units is very important.
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Look for a model built with quality components. Things like an aluminum structure, quality flooring and roof decking, residential type plumbing fixtures, good insulation, dual pane windows are all important items that will make your trailer more solid. Be wary of ultralight weight claims. This often means skimpy materials. All new trailers are going to have initial bugs so focus on substance if you want it to last.
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Aviator Wright-Flyer#1908
1996 Holiday Rambler
2012 Ram 2500HD CTD
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10-26-2016, 12:07 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 33,551
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4 Season can be a sales pitch.
There aren't that many true 4 season rigs out there.
Do research on what R-factors does the RV have for roof/floor/wall insulation.
Also for heating tanks and plumbing.
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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10-26-2016, 12:08 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 1,458
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Whats the best way to determine Trade in value anyway?
__________________
2015 Ram 2500 4x4 6.4l with 2015 Sandpiper 25RLS
Wife, myself and 2 furry kids
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10-26-2016, 12:09 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 1,075
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Don't discount using a consignment dealer like PPL in Houston. A few years ago we brought our three year old TT to PPL. Towed it there from Louisiana. They sold the unit in a month for $1k more than we paid for it new! At the time there were several buyers from Kuwait that were buying TTs for oil field workers and having them shipped overseas. Money was no object. Not sure if that is still the case.
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Lee and Anne
2016 F250 2WD CC SB XLT 6.2 3,295 lb payload cap.
2014 Salem Hemisphere 282RK 8k lbs loaded, Equal-i-zer WDH, TST 507 TPMS
2021: 35 nights already booked so far
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10-26-2016, 12:13 PM
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#12
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Canadian Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Eastern GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,229
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I don't think FR makes a "4 season" 5th wheel but I could be wrong, just 3 season perhaps with a bit better insulation than most, but I'm not sure about that.
A "Lite" 5th wheel will inherently tend to be less durable than a "regular", heavier 5th wheel by virtue of the lighter, less durable materials used in it's construction. That's not to say the Lite models aren't good quality, just less "heavy duty". Whether or not a Lite model will last 10 years for you depends a lot on how much you use it, where you pull it and use/store it, and how well you maintain it. The latter is probably the most critical and applies to any 5th wheel you buy.
I agree with the other posters that selling your used RV privately will net you more money than using it as a trade. We pay 13% sales tax here in Ontario, Canada (8% provincial + 5% federal taxes) and even at that high rate the difference between a private sale price and trade-in value is more than the tax savings by trading.
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2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019 - 2022)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2015 - 2018)
2010 Rockwood Roo 23SS (2012 - 2014)
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10-26-2016, 12:34 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: In a big child free home - except for me
Posts: 1,682
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Back in 2012 the Salem 27RKSS sold for $33,899 here in NB Canada new.
We purchased in the states when the dollar was 1.05 to the US green back (we won't see that again - ever! will we Dave Lyon?)
cost was $14,600 exchanged.
In 2015 the dealerships here offered me a hunting camp pricing of $14,000 Canadian for a spotless trailer. "most you will ever get."
We sold it 3 months later for $21,800 Canadian through RV consignments.
The new owner traded it in this spring for a 40 foot park model and got $15,000 for it on trade.
It sold one week later for $17,999 and all the dealership did was wash the windows and shine the tires.
Sell private you will get more.
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TV 2018 Ford F250, hauling a 2018 KZ 331 TH 12 Sportster 5th wheel, packing a 2015 CF MOTO 800 U-Force SXS
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10-26-2016, 12:40 PM
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#14
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Blog: RVroadtripper.com
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Near Dallas Texas
Posts: 1,000
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When trading my 2013 Kodiak TT last year I found that contacting dealers around the country got me the lowest price for the new one we wanted (2016 Wildcat). Dealers from Florida, Texas, Ohio and many in-between all offered various prices, some high, some low on the Wildcat (exact same build options). But one thing they didn't vary much on was the trade for 2013 Kodiak. I purchased the Kodiak new for $21k and now 3 years later the offers were a low $11.5K and a high $12.5K. Basically, they all use the same book (I did send detailed photos, and the unit was in near new condition).
With my research and internet shopping all complete, I decided to visit the Ft. Worth TX RV Show and see what was available local. Much to my surprise, when I stopped by to see the local dealer that I originally bought the Kodiak from back in late 2012, he had the identical Wildcat I had been looking for at a price that was $4K less than any national deal I could find. Then he sweetened the deal by offering me $16.5K for my Kodiak (Ohio was the previous low). It was a clean deal, no funky PDI charges, no outrageous Extended Warranty, just the sale price and the trade as offered.
Perhaps being a return buyer carried weight, I don't know! He never asked to see my Kodiak or pictures. He just looked it up in the their computer to see which model I had, what I had paid and how much they had been selling them for. In the end, I got my Wildcat local and beat every deal I could find nationwide, so much for internet shopping. 12000 towing miles and about 80 camping nights, we are happy campers (all puns intended)!
__________________
2016 Wildcat 295RSX - 2015 GMC 2500HD DblCab Duramax/Allison 4x4 Z71 6.6' Bed
Maxxis 235/80/16E; AirBags w/AirLift1; mor/Ryde Rubber Pinbox; Andersen UltimateII Alum. 5erhitch on Reese Flipball w/Curt 4" offset; LCI Ground Control3; King Dishtailgater; Traveling with 10' Portabote;
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10-26-2016, 12:43 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 447
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It is a bit of an art as it depends on a number of things, for example the stock the dealer has on hand, how marketable they think the unit is, often ignoring options, and what they think is the demand for the unit. The have to make a profit and need a lot of leeway in case they have trouble selling the unit so they can drop the price significantly if they need to.
There is a public NADA and a purchased NADA the dealers use you can buy. Wholesale is way below low retail.
Book depreciation is just a calculation guideline.
And there are many other sources for proposed, book, and so-called market prices.
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10-26-2016, 12:49 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 426
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The heavy depreciation is exactly why I don't buy new. And the kinks have usually worked out by then. I find out if it has been lived in and if the answer is yes, I don't buy it. Otherwise, in my personal experience, the units get used perhaps five times or so the first year, maybe the same the second year, then declining. I like to get them about four years old.
The last one I purchased was a Cardinal that was only three years old. It was a short sale and although I did drive about 950 miles to get it, I only paid $25k.
As for trade-in, don't do it. I have sold two on Craigslist and got a full price.
And that trailer I drove to get? I bought it off of Craigslist.
Four season coaches? No, it's not a sales gimmick but check the brands out thoroughly to see how they test and what people in that brand forums have to say about them.
__________________
2016 Nike Take Down Wrestling Shoes
42 ft square Dollamur high school wrestling mat
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10-26-2016, 12:55 PM
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#17
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Georgia Rally Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: GA
Posts: 24,293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everidge
Looking to upgrade our fifth wheel. Found a model we would like at a great price. We were insulted at the amount they offered us on our trade (guess they are making up for the great price on the new unit). Live and learn. With the depreciation of the units so dramatic, we plan (hope) to keep our next unit at least ten years. Do we need to only be looking at "four season" models as the salespeople claim they are built to a higher standard? Or is this just a sales pitch to sell a higher priced unit? Any suggestions?
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Being you live in FL why would one want to think about a 4 season. I think it would be a waste and would pass. Later RJD
__________________
2020 Shasta Phoenix SPF 27RKSS (sold)
2018 Dodge Ram 2500 6.4 3:73 gearing. Traded 2015 Chevy 2500 6.0, 4:10
Traded 2015 30WRLIKS V-Lite
Days camped 2019 62
Days camped 2020 49 days camped 2021-74 2022-40 days 2023 5 days
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10-26-2016, 01:02 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 447
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I recommend you look at full-time units selling for about 100k or more, and dig into all the construction details. For example, for a 5th I would pull around the U.S. I would prefer Mohr-ride suspension, H rated tires, disc brakes, and a top quality pin box.
Then work down from there to match your budget and usage, and be able to understand the quality of what you are looking at. If you are willing learn how to inspect and repair units, so you can buy used in a reasonably knowledgable way, you can get ahead of the game.
For example, water damage would be high on my list to first inspect for. Learn how to identify it and what tests to run, like air pressure soap bubble testing.
Saturday I will go look into a used dp. First thing I will do is get down on the ground and look at how much rust damage it has.
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10-26-2016, 01:05 PM
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#19
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Broken Toe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Imperial (St. Louis) MO
Posts: 3,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountndream
Whats the best way to determine Trade in value anyway?
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The Blue Book and NADA are practically useless for valuing trade-in. They listed my Roo, after selecting all the appropriate equipment, at a value of $21K. If someone would have offered me $21k for it, the keys and title would have hit them in the face so fast it would have left a mark.
Craigslist was helpful. There wasn't a Roo exactly like mine for sale (at least not till I posted mine, then 3 more appeared within 2 days ) but it severed a good point for what the market will bear for a similar configuration of a similar year. I also checked a few neighboring cities. (Springfield, KC, etc) just to increase the sample size.
Tim
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FROG Member MO-0008-571 Since 20124444444444My Project Blog: https://cowracer.blogspot.com/
"Camper" 2016 Rockwood Signature Ultralite 8329ss
"Casper" 2017 Ram 2500 Laramie Diesel
..ProPride 3P Hitch - "Yeah. It's worth it."
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10-26-2016, 01:10 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 447
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Trade-in value is set by the specific dealer based on his situation and expectations so no source will help you tie it down other than to know it will be well below low retail. The nada will be useful with private sellers, and if you compare nada with their offers, over time you will understand how to make it work for you. I always like to ask them how they determined the price...often enough to pay off the debt they are upside down on and well above a reasonable market value..so you start with a low offer and know your alternatives because you have been searching the market.
If they are upside down on a loan, don't pay for their problem.
I know, everyone wants a reliable easy answer and a reliable never-fails rv.
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