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Old 06-14-2015, 02:25 PM   #101
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It is the rate of change. I'm not saying that psi of Nitrogen won't change, because it will. Air expands & contracts faster than Nitrogen, also can produce moisture (depending on the rate of expansion/contraction).


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Old 06-14-2015, 02:50 PM   #102
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Herk:

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In the case of tires, the volume is fixed and temperature changes causing pressure to change. The gas can be nitrogen or steam, it does not matter.
You are absolutely CORRECT.

But the nitro's mantra is "Give me the facts, so I can make an emotional decision!"
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:15 PM   #103
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The fact that this thread is still going is a testament that people get something in their heads and just absolutely HATE to be wrong... Human nature includes gullibility, unfortunately, and sales people play VERY heavily on that... and I'm not pointing fingers. I'm human, and guilty, too...
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:31 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by ov845 View Post
Air expands & contracts faster than Nitrogen, also can produce moisture (depending on the rate of expansion/contraction).
Why would this be so?


What would cause that?

Is there an equation that describes that?

As to producing "moisture" I can see how that could be (since N2 is "dry" out of the bottle and air from a compressor compresses the humidity in the air along with the gas), but it would of course have absolutely no effect on that pressure or temperature of the gas - air - (which is what supports the load) in the tire.

The process of pressurizing the "wet air" actually dries the air quite a bit and that water then collects in the pressure tank which must be drained regularly to prevent your compressor from rusting.

The percent of water as a gas remaining in the compressed air would have to reach its saturation point temperature (Dew Point) in order to condense. Since the air would be quite dry once compressed, even if there was some gaseous water condensation any tire warming would make it be a gas again in short order.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:32 PM   #105
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BTW, tires "burst" they don't "explode", since usually, there's no combustion involved. That 727 incident I mentioned in my original post did explode, as it got hot enough to bring gaseous compounds out of the tire carcass that were flammable.

Analysis of the tire-beads (they failed in tension) indicated an instantaneous pressure inside the tire of close to 12,000 psi before it blew.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:03 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by ov845 View Post
It is the rate of change. I'm not saying that psi of Nitrogen won't change, because it will. Air expands & contracts faster than Nitrogen, also can produce moisture (depending on the rate of expansion/contraction).
And you can measure the difference between 78% nitrogen and 100% nitrogen in a trailer tire? Bring on the data or calculations!
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:18 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Herk7769 View Post
Why would this be so?


What would cause that?

Is there an equation that describes that?

As to producing "moisture" I can see how that could be (since N2 is "dry" out of the bottle and air from a compressor compresses the humidity in the air along with the gas), but it would of course have absolutely no effect on that pressure or temperature of the gas - air - (which is what supports the load) in the tire.

The process of pressurizing the "wet air" actually dries the air quite a bit and that water then collects in the pressure tank which must be drained regularly to prevent your compressor from rusting.

The percent of water as a gas remaining in the compressed air would have to reach its saturation point temperature (Dew Point) in order to condense. Since the air would be quite dry once compressed, even if there was some gaseous water condensation any tire warming would make it be a gas again in short order.

You're correct. But let's say you're driving thru the mountains (tires mounted on steel wheels) now tired pull off to get some rest on a cool spring night. Steel rims are going to retain heat longer from brakes being applied as to the tires cooling faster, the air in between may actually sweat. It doesn't take much moisture to start the process. But once it's there it's harder to get rid of it.


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Old 06-14-2015, 06:39 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by OldCoot View Post
And you can measure the difference between 78% nitrogen and 100% nitrogen in a trailer tire? Bring on the data or calculations!

Without an nitrogen analyzer, no but just like anything else, it requires trust. As you said before, if you believe it works for you then stay with it, if not, then don't. Me personally, A good TPMS that also keeps track of temp would tell you.



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Old 06-20-2015, 09:56 AM   #109
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Nitro

Maybe in my Kawasaki..... ;-)
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:13 AM   #110
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Interesting science read on the subject (true or not? you tell me)

Are Nitrogen Molecules Really Larger Than Oxygen Molecules?
The correct answer, with respect to “permeation”, is yes.
Graham’s Law Explained:
The Difference between Effusion and Permeation




http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

Of course the bottom line is, does it matter in the real world? IMO, no.
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