Nitrogen. Yes or no

[auroramwh]

Originally Posted by david345

Will putting nitrogen in my tires on my Rockwood 2608 help prevent blowouts. I just put a new set of Goodyear marathon 205 75r14c on the camper. The Goodyear dealer didn't mention it


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Having worked in heat treat, we used nitrogen to regulate the heat in the furnaces with other gases. Therefore, I would say yes, it probably would help, but not positive. It's also quite expensive.

[rockfordroo]

Having worked in heat treat, we used nitrogen to regulate the heat in the furnaces with other gases. Therefore, I would say yes, it probably would help, but not positive. It's also quite expensive.

I'm guessing you used nitrogen because "air" would have included oxygen, which probably do bad things to your heat treatment, not because "nitro" was any better at cooling. Oxygen corrodes metal, and the hotter it is, the faster the corrosion.

[Iwannacamp]

One other note.... Remember Firestone/Ford "blow outs"? I think this brought the awareness..."weight/pressure" police out. People started worrying about their tires and they figured out the pressure issues were causing failures. Instead of saying the real problem... they tried to do a "blanket" fix anyway they could...typical government type deal. IMHO

[dsjohns71]

Originally Posted by Grampa Jim

Here're my thoughts. I had a tire disintegrate on IH 20 in Fort Worth several years ago. $5153 dollars in damage....thank God for my deductible. Now,,,I use TPMS, spin balance the tires, keep them on wood instead of the ground, keep them covered, and keep nitrogen in them. A Goodyear dealer told me that tires wear out from the inside out,,,especially when they aren't rolling down RT66. What is one of the greatest oxidizers in the world? The word "oxidize" is named after it. I believe that the vulcanization of rubber in a tire is broken down faster with oxygen present. Think about it. it's not a good feeling to look in your rear view mirror and seeing rubber and wood flying everywhere,,,,and cars pulling back and over to avoid your debris. I cover as many bases as I can concerning it.

What about the oxygen on and around the outside of the tire.. This must "break down the tire " as well?
It's all a scam. Had my last set of tires filled with nitrogen and they wore out 20,000 miles quicker than the other 3 sets, all the same tire.

[Herk7769]

So, tires don't oxidize; they dry out, which causes cracks and checking.

The plasticizers used in their construction are cooked out by solar radiation (UV to be specific - the same wave lengths that cause sun burn and skin cancer in humans). (COVER THOSE TIRES) I also use 303 UV Protectant to treat the surface of all my tires. (Patent US2721185 - Vulcanized liquid polymers as rubber plasticizers - Google Patents)

The AMOUNT of plasticizers used during the Vulcanization process depends on the intended use; speed of rotation; and estimated frequency of use.

The LESS the tire will be used, the more plasticizers are added which makes the tire more flexible and wear faster; BUT they can sit for 11 months and then be spun up to 65 MPH without blowing up. They can be twisted without failure due to that flexibility. ST tires are made this way.

The more often the use, the less plasticizers are needed as they circulate between the molecules of Vulcanized rubber during use. Less plasticizers make the rubber more stiff and wear longer. LT tires are made this way.

When infrequently used tires flex during use, the dry rubber on the OUTSIDE surface will crack and check (small cracks). The most flexing occurs at the tread and the cracks start between the treads. This is bad because by the time you see cracks on the side, you can guarantee there are more severe ones you can't see. To say they "fail from the inside out" is a myth unless you hit something and break a belt; they fail from the outside in until they deflate (typically "at speed" - maximum tread flex).

A case can be made for Nitrogen in race car and aircraft tires due to the extreme fire risk at the speeds their tires turn. An minor brake fire can become a bomb when fed with Oxygen in ANY amount under pressure. This is not the case in a motor vehicle.

Just think about it.

Race cars tires, 200 MPH plus from a standing start.
Aircraft tires; Zero to 180 MPH in SECONDS
Space Shuttle - Zero to 250 MPH in SECONDS.

Does that fit your driving pattern?

The "Molecule Size" argument is equally silly;

I check my tires every time I move the camper and carry a small compressor to top them off when needed. What do I care if I need to use it once or twice a year. Most often it is temperature or pressure changes in the ambient atmosphere cause a much greater need to change the tire pressure.

Put the camper away in August and then check the pressure in January.
OMG the air leaked out!

No, that is just Boyle's Law of gases at work. The interior Volume of a tire is fixed (even when it flexes), so any temperature change will move pressure.

The air is still in there; it just won't support as much weight due to less "vibration energy" in the molecules.

Fill it up to the correct pressure in January, then check in June, you will need to let air OUT because the more energetic molecules will raise the pressure in the tire.

Long tire life on a camper is a result of the proper tire for the job, run at the correct pressure for the load carried, and operated at the rated speed for that pressure and load.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

I'm guessing you used nitrogen because "air" would have included oxygen, which probably do bad things to your heat treatment, not because "nitro" was any better at cooling. Oxygen corrodes metal, and the hotter it is, the faster the corrosion.

What he said...

[howie70]

Originally Posted by Mike Tav

A gimmick, I personally don't have the extra money to spend on nitrogen when I can use regular air for free in my garage. Just be religious
about checking your PSI.

As a note, new buyers should check the pressure before leaving the dealership. (My new camper has the "nitrofill", but I intend to use the 78% mix from my air compressor when they get low.) Anyway, I checked mine a day or two after driving it home from the dealer as we were getting it ready for a trip. All four tires were at 60-62 psi. The sticker on my trailer states 50 psi.

[elind]

How true about the tires air pressure changing with ambient temps. I left this winter with everything top off at 80 psi @ 15 degrees (TV&5er). When I got down to Arizona the air pressure was at 90+psi @ 80 degrees when it was parked. So much for the tires loosing air pressure after a month.

[edgewant]

What a con.

If oxygen dissipates through the sidewall then since air is 79% N2 then eventually as you keep having to refill your tires (if you're using plain old air) you would eventually approach having 99% N2 in the tires.

The Nitrogen hype is for those that sell it or manufacture generators to make money!!

What BS.

[Herk7769]

So, why the hype?
Money of course.

The business of turning "air" into money has been around for quite a while.

The BIG BUCKS come from distilling the so called "Noble" gases from the atmosphere. Table of gaseous composition of dry air

Since less than 1% of "air" is Argon, Neon, Helium, Krypton, and Xenon, there are a LOT of "waste products" that the Chemical companies need to figure out how to market.

CO2 (Fire Extinguishers mostly), O2 (Aviation, Medical, and Welding) seem obvious and also make money.

The LARGEST amount of waste product by far is Nitrogen. Except for some metallurgical uses (mentioned earlier) and limited aviation (and much later race car) applications, it is the "garbage" of the process.

The selling of this "garbage" gas to the gullible public was a master stroke of market engineering and my hat goes off to the unsung entrepreneurs who dreamed up this HIGHLY profitable (for them) scam to turn trash into money.

[bubbles]

Dry nitrogen is used to purge aircraft pitot static systems and due to non flammability is used in aircraft tires. Nitrogen used for tires at our level is a joke. I'm a nobody but JMO.

[Blackhat6mike]

If it makes you feel secure and all fuzzy inside, then go for it. Who cares? Or you can invest in a pet rock.

[howie70]

Originally Posted by Blackhat6mike

If it makes you feel secure and all fuzzy inside, then go for it. Who cares? Or you can invest in a pet rock.

I have several for sale. They are house trained and very well behaved. Perfect camping companion. They don't bark when you're away or chew things up. Pics available upon request. Cash payments only.

[Iwritecode]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRxqY4wuTHw

[jdhreiss]

Nitro will not heat up and expand (like "wet" air) altering tire pressures between hot and cold so much, The NASCAR types use it due to their very slight suspension adjustments via 1/2 lb of "air" pressure in their tires.

air is ok by me for tires, as long as they are checked cold and often.

[ov845]

I work for a company that makes mining equipment. They don't go 200 MPH or land on an airstrip, but yet they're filled with Nitrogen because it's stable throughout temp variations, working at steel mills etc.

Yes to Nitrogen.


2012 Ram 1500 5.7L 3.92

2015 2809 WindJammer

[OldCoot]

This can be debated from now until eternity and those that like it will never change their minds as will the non-users never change their minds. Unless you are going over 200 mph or higher than 20,000 ft in your camper, you are wasting your time and money on the nitrogen. Just a fact of life folks.
78% nitrogen is close enough.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by jdhreiss

Nitro will not heat up and expand (like "wet" air)

I would love to see the source of this assertion. (Just sayin' )

Both Boyle's and Charle's law of gases determine pressure of a "system" as temperature changes. It is the pressure exerted on the walls of a container by the molecular vibration caused by temperature. There is no mention in either equation of what the gas or mixture of gases actually consists of since at temperatures above liquidity, all gases (including water vapor) behave the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles%27s_law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle%27s_law

As to mining equipment tires, I have no idea why they put nitrogen in them verses any other gas, but I can tell you that temperature "stability" is not one of them.

In the following graphic, the volume is being changed and the temperature is fixed; thus pressure changes. In the case of tires, the volume is fixed and temperature changes causing pressure to change. The gas can be nitrogen or steam, it does not matter.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

This can be debated from now until eternity and those that like it will never change their minds as will the non-users never change their minds. Unless you are going over 200 mph or higher than 20,000 ft in your camper, you are wasting your time and money on the nitrogen. Just a fact of life folks.
78% nitrogen is close enough.

I agree, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs; just not their own "facts".

[prairiecamper]

And to make it more confusing here is the formula.

P1V1/T1=P2V2/T2

P= pressure
V= volume
T= temperature