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Old 10-20-2013, 07:15 PM   #51
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Hope you are wrong about Carlisle. I upgraded from load range C to load range D and went with the new RH Carlisle. Haven't read anything bad about them yet. Newest Maxxis tires I could get were already 1 1/2 years old sitting in the warehouse.
Both the tow/ride and mileage got better with the new tires.

Ken
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:41 PM   #52
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i would advise against carlisle tires i up graded to load range e from d on my past unit i blew out 8 with less than 500 miles on them i changed back to load range d good year marthon never had another problem kept the carlisle at max air presure with tire covers at all times
Wow 8 for 8. Did NHTSA contact you for more details & info after you filed the 8 complaints?

But with only 52 complaints since Oct 2007 there does not seem to be a broad base of problems. You must be unlucky to have had almost 10% of the bad tires made over the last 5 years.
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:07 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
You didn't say what you found confusing about the Load/Inflation tables. The intent is to specify a minimum cold inflation to set a tire at to carry a specific load. The tables do not address other performance characteristics such as fuel economy, handling, steering response or ability to resist side loading that is unique to multi axle trailers.

Re extra plies. If you read the sidewall of your tires I think you will see that in most cases you are not getting an increase in the number of sidewall plies. The change might be in the bead area as sometimes the increased inflation requires more bead wire while the rest of the tire is already strong enough to pass the various regulatory tests.
One reason to run a higher Load Range would be to allow you to run higher inflation to give you greater safety factor above the minimum needed to carry the load. Another would be to lower the internal shear forces on multi-axle trailers.
I Think you answered your own question in your first paragraph. You have probably forgot more about tires then I know. With saying that I have not found one GoodYear dealer yet who has NOT told me to run my tires at the cold pressure rating. (they are the ones who carry my warranty) I purchased my tires at Blacks Tires in NC Lumberton one of the largest dealers out there. When they took off my Trail Express, load range C and they installed the Marathon D, I was told to run them that way. I know the weight of my trailer and axles. I showed them the #'s, and he said run them at 65lbs. I would be alot happier with the performance. I also asked and payed for balancing being the tires I was taking off were not. He said that they should be balanced, which the factory will not do. He also stated that 90% of trailers coming in for new tires there old are not balanced. That's my dilemma with just reading the inflation charts.........
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:28 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by gljurczyk View Post
I Think you answered your own question in your first paragraph. You have probably forgot more about tires then I know. With saying that I have not found one GoodYear dealer yet who has NOT told me to run my tires at the cold pressure rating. (they are the ones who carry my warranty) I purchased my tires at Blacks Tires in NC Lumberton one of the largest dealers out there. When they took off my Trail Express, load range C and they installed the Marathon D, I was told to run them that way. I know the weight of my trailer and axles. I showed them the #'s, and he said run them at 65lbs. I would be alot happier with the performance. I also asked and payed for balancing being the tires I was taking off were not. He said that they should be balanced, which the factory will not do. He also stated that 90% of trailers coming in for new tires there old are not balanced. That's my dilemma with just reading the inflation charts.........
Lets separate the inflation question from the other issues.

Tire companies publish Load and Inflation tables for their tires. These indicate the minimum cold inflation needed to carry the load shown in the table.

Looking at the MAXXIS table provided by WindyWest we see an ST225/75R15 is rated to carry up to 2150#@50 psi and up to 2275#@55 or up to 2540@65 etc.

Now when you get the actual load on one of your tires when the RV is fully loaded and ready to travel and you find the heavier loaded tire on your front axle is at 2205# you should go to 55psi as your minimum cold inflation. Next you need to find a tire that can carry that inflation. Again according to the table we see that a Load Range C is limited to 50psi so you need to go the next higher Load Range tire or LR-D,

Now there are two more items to consider.
1. A Safety Factor. You will find various suggestions ranging from +5psi or +10% or or +10psi. For non Passenger tires, I would suggest at least +5psi over what is required to carry the load or in this example 60psi.

2. Special consideration for multi-axle trailers. Warning, this gets technical.
When not driving in a straight line there are special side loads on multi-axle trailers because the tires are fighting each other because they are not "pointed" to the center of the radius. These loads cause interior structural tearing. Sometimes 24% higher than those seen in tires on non-trailer application. Initially at the microscopic level but with time and repeated cycles these forces can cause a belt to come off the body of a tire. You can lower these forces by either decreasing the load 24% on the tire (probably not something you want to do) or you can increase the inflation to stiffen the structure and decrease the slip-angle. In this case you could increase the tire inflation from 55psi to 65psi on the LR-D tires. BUT you need to be sure you are not exceeding the max rating of the wheel.

Video showing lateral deflection. Time from 0:46 to 1:07
Note slow speed and relatively large turning radius.
How To: Maintain Proper Lug Nut Torque on a Keystone RV - YouTube


Hope this helps.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:30 PM   #55
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I'm in the same situation with my Rockwood 8289 WS. Shredded a new tire in July this year, followed all Lionshead instructions for replacement and they refuse to return my calls 3 months later ! Worst company ever. Shame on Forest River for not putting better tires on their RV's and for using Lionshead. I will not get fooled again !!
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:40 PM   #56
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Every company has bean counters... If they can save $5- per tire and use 30K tires, it's significant. Sad... but true. The Towmax tires on my unit are pretty much junk, and I've replaced one already. I will probably replace the other 4 soon (spare included). I found a bulge on the tread of the one I replaced before a trip this spring, and had no blowout... thank goodness. I look at them every time I go to the trailer in storage. If anything looks out of shape or low, they all get checked. Unfortunately, with poor quality tires, that isn't enough.
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:26 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Mike Tav View Post
I'm in the same situation with my Rockwood 8289 WS. Shredded a new tire in July this year, followed all Lionshead instructions for replacement and they refuse to return my calls 3 months later ! Worst company ever. Shame on Forest River for not putting better tires on their RV's and for using Lionshead. I will not get fooled again !!
They were very slow in getting me paid for my replacement but I also wasn't persistent with it (nor should I have had to have been).
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:00 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Lets separate the inflation question from the other issues.

Tire companies publish Load and Inflation tables for their tires. These indicate the minimum cold inflation needed to carry the load shown in the table.

Looking at the MAXXIS table provided by WindyWest we see an ST225/75R15 is rated to carry up to 2150#@50 psi and up to 2275#@55 or up to 2540@65 etc.

Now when you get the actual load on one of your tires when the RV is fully loaded and ready to travel and you find the heavier loaded tire on your front axle is at 2205# you should go to 55psi as your minimum cold inflation. Next you need to find a tire that can carry that inflation. Again according to the table we see that a Load Range C is limited to 50psi so you need to go the next higher Load Range tire or LR-D,

Now there are two more items to consider.
1. A Safety Factor. You will find various suggestions ranging from +5psi or +10% or or +10psi. For non Passenger tires, I would suggest at least +5psi over what is required to carry the load or in this example 60psi.

2. Special consideration for multi-axle trailers. Warning, this gets technical.
When not driving in a straight line there are special side loads on multi-axle trailers because the tires are fighting each other because they are not "pointed" to the center of the radius. These loads cause interior structural tearing. Sometimes 24% higher than those seen in tires on non-trailer application. Initially at the microscopic level but with time and repeated cycles these forces can cause a belt to come off the body of a tire. You can lower these forces by either decreasing the load 24% on the tire (probably not something you want to do) or you can increase the inflation to stiffen the structure and decrease the slip-angle. In this case you could increase the tire inflation from 55psi to 65psi on the LR-D tires. BUT you need to be sure you are not exceeding the max rating of the wheel.

Video showing lateral deflection. Time from 0:46 to 1:07
Note slow speed and relatively large turning radius.
How To: Maintain Proper Lug Nut Torque on a Keystone RV - YouTube


Hope this helps.
Thanks for taking the time that helps, But that is what I do, I run in reality between 60 psi and never over 65 psi that my rims are rated for. I guess there point ( GY Dealer) was correct for running them at that psi to stiffen the structure and to decrease the slip angle for my loads maybe not others. And probably also to cover there butts. I also torque my lug nuts to 110 lbs. check them all the time and measure the tire temps at every stop with a gun my temps have never been over 118 degrees always within 5 degrees of my TV or I stop and let them cool. I also measure my hubs to see if I have any breaks dragging that I do not know of. I do not find that running a harder tire increases any movement inside my trailer. I still leave things on the counter and the island and it is still there when I open the door at our destination. So once again thanks, I feel better about this whole tire debate that seems to always pop-up...
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:25 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Mike Tav View Post
I'm in the same situation with my Rockwood 8289 WS. Shredded a new tire in July this year, followed all Lionshead instructions for replacement and they refuse to return my calls 3 months later ! Worst company ever. Shame on Forest River for not putting better tires on their RV's and for using Lionshead. I will not get fooled again !!
Have you filed a complaint with NHTSA? One complaint per tire. Be sure to provide full DOT serial so a company cannot avoid a recall by simply changing the name on the tire sidewall.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:30 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by gljurczyk View Post
Thanks for taking the time that helps, But that is what I do, I run in reality between 60 psi and never over 65 psi that my rims are rated for. I guess there point ( GY Dealer) was correct for running them at that psi to stiffen the structure and to decrease the slip angle for my loads maybe not others. And probably also to cover there butts. I also torque my lug nuts to 110 lbs. check them all the time and measure the tire temps at every stop with a gun my temps have never been over 118 degrees always within 5 degrees of my TV or I stop and let them cool. I also measure my hubs to see if I have any breaks dragging that I do not know of. I do not find that running a harder tire increases any movement inside my trailer. I still leave things on the counter and the island and it is still there when I open the door at our destination. So once again thanks, I feel better about this whole tire debate that seems to always pop-up...
Just to be clear when talking about tire inflation we are talking about the cold pressure (tires not in the sun and not driven on for at least 2 hours).
A TPMS is much better than just checking when you stop. You never know if you run over a nail when leaving a rest stop. I wouldn't bother with IR gun check of the tire as you are not getting the hot spot. I have written about this on my blog.
Checking hubs is different as metal conducts heat. rubber is insulator.
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