Tundra Owners Towing a 2509S/25BRDS

kevinrross · 07-07-2019, 08:27 PM

Just curious to know what the tow experience is like for those of you with a Tundra CrewMax 5.7 towing a 2509S/25BRDS. I would assume you are good on GCVW and are well within the max GTW, but how are you managing payload? My Tundra shows a max payload number of 1295. Given the heavy tongue on the 2509/25BRDS, how are you accounting for that? I'd be really interested if there is anyone in Texas with this combo....

67L48 · 07-07-2019, 09:00 PM

Not a good combination. The trailer at 6,800 lbs will drop ~850 lbs onto the 50 lb WDH.

I can't imagine getting a bunkhouse without inhabitants for the bunks. Hopefully they're small kids and you don't have a spouse ... because the 395 lbs isn't enough for an even below average family of 4. No bikes, no gear, no wood, nothing at all in your bed, either.

You are payload limited. It doesn't matter if anyone in Texas (or anywhere else) has done this ... you shouldn't do it. You'll be overloaded.

CurtPutnam · 07-07-2019, 09:12 PM

If I looked it up correctly .... With a TT GVW of ~7000 lbs you maximum tongue weight should be no more than 15% * 7000 = 1050 and your minimum 10% * 7000 = 700. You have a max of 500 lbs available for passengers, dog, kids, gear, etc. Pretty much does not matter what you do to the truck, your payload will remain low. You can make the squats go away but that will lose you some more payload.

My trailer is heavier and my Tundra had a 1400 lb payload. Pulled the TT nicely and stopped well. Worked real hard getting up & down from Big Bear. Solved the payload issue with a new truck.

If there are just two of you, you are at the limits or a little over and I might opt to keep pulling with the Tundra. If there is family involved, I'd get a new truck.

JMO & YMWV

moose074 · 07-07-2019, 10:58 PM

I towed a NorthTrail 31qbs with my 2014 Tundra . I was over payload but with the equalizer 4 point I never had a single problem. Towed from west Texas to southern Oregon and back again thru Cascades, Siria Nevada and Rockies no problems.

kevinrross · 07-08-2019, 12:00 PM

@67L48, I hear you, which is why I am asking. Doesn't the new J2807 standard mean that there is 370 pounds of additional payload in there to play with (in other words, the sticker weight of 1205 already assumes gas, + 370 pounds of payload, will be in the vehicle)? Also, FWIW, we would never hit the GCVW (we use our current camper for weekend trips and have never carried water). My guess is we would be at 6K max, fully loaded.

CurtPutnam · 07-08-2019, 03:38 PM

I do not believe any new standards will retroactively increase your available payload.

kevinrross · 07-08-2019, 03:50 PM

Thanks, Curt. I was under the impression that payload numbers now assume 2 passengers @ 150 lbs. each, plus a 70 lb. WDH.

OburgOrange · 07-08-2019, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinrross

Just curious to know what the tow experience is like for those of you with a Tundra CrewMax 5.7 towing a 2509S/25BRDS. I would assume you are good on GCVW and are well within the max GTW, but how are you managing payload? My Tundra shows a max payload number of 1295. Given the heavy tongue on the 2509/25BRDS, how are you accounting for that? I'd be really interested if there is anyone in Texas with this combo....

I was in your exact situation. Just traded my Tundra crewmax for a Ram 3/4 ton. I feel much safer, and the tow experience is much better

CurtPutnam · 07-08-2019, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinrross

Thanks, Curt. I was under the impression that payload numbers now assume 2 passengers @ 150 lbs. each, plus a 70 lb. WDH.

To the best of my knowledge, payload numbers include a full fuel tank and nothing else. You can eliminate all your questions by getting a cat scale weight on the truck with a full tank. Truck GVW - Cat Weight = Payload

67L48 · 07-08-2019, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinrross

[...] Also, FWIW, we would never hit the GCVW (we use our current camper for weekend trips and have never carried water). My guess is we would be at 6K max, fully loaded.

I'm not sure why tow rating or GCWR would matter any more than payload, other than you can likely meet the former and not the latter. I would suggest that you may be choosing ratings' importance in a self-serving manner.

Payload does not account for any passengers or any equipment. It's literally the GVWR less the actual weight of the truck (and its fluids). Tow rating makes an allowance for a 150 lb driver. Payload does not. Everything counts against the payload rating.

It's either safe to be overloaded and payload is an irrelevant number ... or, payload matters. If you line up with the former, then the conversation is done and the question probably shouldn't have even been asked. If ratings matter, then it's a pretty simple position: you don't have enough truck to safely tow that trailer.

Physically, any modern 1/2 ton (last 10 years) will tow any of the Mini/Micro Lite trailers.

Tundra 2014 · 07-08-2019, 06:54 PM

You will be at or over payload limits and it will not be comfortable in wind or hills. I was pulling a 7500 lb. Flagstaff V-front w/ 2014 Crew Max Tundra. Payload 1360. It was too low for my trailer w/ 1050 tongue weight. Loaded I was over weight on payload, rear axel load. and rear tire load. Many of the new 1/2 ton trucks are coming w/ P-metric passenger tires, not truck tires. I added Timbrons, which helped eliminate the squat and improved towing greatly. But I also had to replace front brakes for the 3 rd. time @ 66k miles. Both DW and I retired this year, and after towing 10k miles over 3 years decided to be more comfortable and safer. Traded for a new SD Ford F-350, much improved, relaxed towing.

kevinrross · 07-09-2019, 08:17 AM

With all due respect, my intent was not to cherry-pick ratings. My point was that loaded to camp at a max of 6,000 lbs., I don't think the weight on the tongue would be as high as 850 lbs. It might be 750 -800, which is likely still too high.

Again, I don't currently own this trailer, so it is a bit of a moot point, but I don't see any harm in asking others who are currently using this TV/TT combo how they are making it work (not, how am I going to make it work). Suggesting it shouldn't be asked is what leads people to blindly go out and buy more TT than they should.

upflying · 07-09-2019, 08:25 AM

I just got rid of a Nissan Frontier because I had 300lbs for payload after hooking up an empty trailer.
I was 1300lbs below it's tow rating.

Tundra 2014 · 07-09-2019, 10:00 AM

I have had two Tundras. The first I sold w/ 120K, second w/ 66k. They were the most reliable and best trucks I owned in 50 years of driving. I would recommend for a total weight of under 6k trailer, if you do not carry a lot in the bed. Do not believe mfg. trailer weights, my Flagstaff weighed almost 1k over and tongue weight was 178 over spec. Understand mfg. weight is for lightest version, no electric down riggers, no second air, and no battery or full propane. The Tundras have 3 short comings w/ Crew Max, small 26 gal.gas tank (new ones 31 gal.), brakes, low payload-when pulling a larger trailer. With my 7500 trailer, we got 8.5 MPG on flat ground. Stopping for gas every 215 miles if driving @ 60 MPH. Previously, had a 4500 trailer and were getting 13.5 MPG.

67L48 · 07-09-2019, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinrross

[..] Suggesting it shouldn't be asked is what leads people to blindly go out and buy more TT than they should.

You've rearranged my comment out of order. I stated the opposite: if people are going to blindly go out and buy more TT than they should, then it probably doesn't make sense to ask "can I tow it?" questions.

Has someone else done it? Sure. The answer is always, "Yes," regardless of what "it" is. Physically, any modern truck can pull one of these Lites. WDH not required to pull it, either. Others "make it work" by ignoring math, numbers, and pesky ratings that tell them they shouldn't do it. Hitch and go. Easy peasy. Done and done.

This doesn't necessarily describe you, but If a person already is hand-waving specs and ratings away as "not important," then what question is even left to be asked? if the answer is already prescribed, then why ask the question?

1,000 lbs is generally a good number to use as an estimate of weight that you/factory/dealer will put on the trailer, before water: factory options not included in the fictional dry weight, your gear, bedding, clothing, food, cookware, battery, etc. People can do it with less, but those are generally 2-person families that have taken care to minimize over time.

Good luck.

Tundra 2014 · 07-09-2019, 12:54 PM

The 1K over mfg. specs was w/ battery and propane filled. No personal items @ Escapee scale, by axel for truck, and trailer.

Trawlerphil · 07-09-2019, 03:30 PM

If you are an "experience rating" kind of guy, I've towed a 9,000 lb. Flagstaff Classic 8528RKWS 5th wheel over every mountain range in the country with my 2012 Tundra without problems. Our 3rd fall west coast trip will put us over the 40,000 mile mark. I have no idea how it would perform towing a tag-along. My last tag-along was a Sportsman 21 which I towed across country in a Tacoma 4 cylinder. It wasn't pretty, but we took the road less travelled and had a slower ride.

Tundra 2014 · 07-09-2019, 04:51 PM

When you go to the Crew Max, which was what OP was asking about, you loss towing capacity. All the extra weight goodies like sunroof (takes 330 lb off payload capacity) plus bigger wheel and tires, etc. My 1 st. Tundra was an access cab, 6.5' bed VS 5.5' of Crew Max. Same motor and transmission w/o all the extras, different animal and better TV. If you look at the factory specs from Toyota, they reduced the tow rating max weights on Tundras after about 2012. Great trucks, I hated to give my 1794 up. Needed something heavier to pull a nose heavy v-front and for a future move to a 5 th. wheel.

BostonRVer · 08-13-2019, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinrross

With all due respect, my intent was not to cherry-pick ratings. My point was that loaded to camp at a max of 6,000 lbs., I don't think the weight on the tongue would be as high as 850 lbs. It might be 750 -800, which is likely still too high.

Again, I don't currently own this trailer, so it is a bit of a moot point, but I don't see any harm in asking others who are currently using this TV/TT combo how they are making it work (not, how am I going to make it work). Suggesting it shouldn't be asked is what leads people to blindly go out and buy more TT than they should.

Don't let other people make you feel bad for asking. It's better to ask then to not ask and possibly have equipment failure down the road.

Guys, how about we be a little more helpful, and a little less condescending?

BostonRVer · 08-13-2019, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinrross

With all due respect, my intent was not to cherry-pick ratings. My point was that loaded to camp at a max of 6,000 lbs., I don't think the weight on the tongue would be as high as 850 lbs. It might be 750 -800, which is likely still too high.

Again, I don't currently own this trailer, so it is a bit of a moot point, but I don't see any harm in asking others who are currently using this TV/TT combo how they are making it work (not, how am I going to make it work). Suggesting it shouldn't be asked is what leads people to blindly go out and buy more TT than they should.

Here is a crazy idea, that might net you 50lbs of weight back to payload. Cut your exhaust out, go straight pipe

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